Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[Vger23]

"Star Trek Discovery is too different. It doesn't follow the previous 2 show's paths and editing and pace and sensibilities. Can we even call this Star Trek??"

"Star Trek Discovery doesn't do anything new. It just rehashes old tropes and things that suck because they're dark and emo and cliched. Aren't there any ORIGINAL ideas left??"

 

[SJA]

At the very least they were new twists on somewhat original ideas. STD has yet to introduce anything except for the new way to fly, I guess.

Hmmm...Claiming that the Orville has introduced 'new twists on somewhat original ideas' is a bit like saying The Rutles were an improved Beatles...

 

[BillJ]

"Star Trek Discovery is too different. It doesn't follow the previous 2 show's paths and editing and pace and sensibilities. Can we even call this Star Trek??"

"Star Trek Discovery doesn't do anything new. It just rehashes old tropes and things that suck because they're dark and emo and cliched. Aren't there any ORIGINAL ideas left??"

Humans are complex creatures. Who knew?

 

[starmike]

"Star Trek Discovery is too different. It doesn't follow the previous 2 show's paths and editing and pace and sensibilities. Can we even call this Star Trek??"

"TNG is too different. It doesn't follow the previous show's path and editing and pace and sensibilities"

^^ Actual arguments at Trek cons in 1987.

 

[Vger23]

"Star Trek Discovery is too different. It doesn't follow the previous 2 show's paths and editing and pace and sensibilities. Can we even call this Star Trek??"

"TNG is too different. It doesn't follow the previous show's path and editing and pace and sensibilities"

^^ Actual arguments at Trek cons in 1987.

And in 79
...and 82
...and 93
...and 2001
...and 2009

 

[starmike]

And in 79
...and 82
...and 93
...and 2001
...and 2009

Yup. Which is why people that think they're being "edgy" in calling out DSC...are really being as ignorant about the show and the anti-TNG people were about TOS. People really don't like change.

 

[Boomstick]

The Orville has nothing on Lexx

 

[Mudd]

They're not similar shows.

 

[Vger23]

Yup. Which is why people that think they're being "edgy" in calling out DSC...are really being as ignorant about the show and the anti-TNG people were about TOS. People really don't like change.

Yeah...I don't know if it's really "ignorance," though. In some cases, it's just that fandom is so varied and diverse that there are always going to be elements of any new Trek that are met equally with happiness as they will be met by disappointment.

In other cases, it's just fans being fans. Like others have pointed out, it's really no different in a lot of other passionate fandoms.

But...we certainly do have a tendency to not learn from history. That is for certain.

 

[starmike]

But...we certainly do have a tendency to not learn from history. That is for certain.

This I agree with.

 

[fireproof78]

This kind of post illustrates the redundancy of this thread now...

And the silliness.

 

[eschaton]

Well, while the first handful of episodes of B5 weren’t nearly as strong as the episodes of the 2nd or 3rd season, I still thought they were pretty good, and definitely left me looking forward to the rest of the show, which is more than you can say about the first three episodes of STD.

But let’s leave B5 out of it since we disagree, and try to compare the first three episodes of STD with the first three episodes of The Expanse. By episode 3, we’ve already been introduced to most of the major characters. We know Errinwright is probably a bad guy, can cheer for Avasarala and Miller, and we’re on the edge of the seat watching Holden and his crew go from bad, to worse to “holy shit!” These are characters you can love and hate, sympathize with and cheer for. We know where the story is going and got two mysteries to explore (Julie Mao and the Cant).

Compare that with the first three episodes of STD. Any interesting characters? Aside from Lorca there’s zilch. Do we really care about the Klingon war? Eh, not really. There’s the shroom drive if you can get past the initial silliness of the idea, but even that is just the means to an end, rather than an interesting plot arc.

The Expanse benefited greatly because there was an established canon of books to mine. Thus the showrunners didn't have to spend much time thinking about big picture issues of plot and characterization, they could just adapt what was already written. The early seasons of Game of Thrones had the same advantage...and the series has declined into bleh because it's clear they can't mine GRRM's plotting and characterization any more to drive the show along.

Though I like The Expanse, my one major nitpick with the series is they added a lot of interpersonal drama between the (eventual) Roci crew which just didn't exist in the books, where they were all coworkers for years and knew one another pretty well.

 

[Mudd]

When is Discovery on, again? I thought it was 8:30 or 9:00 ET in the U.S.

 

[Charles Phipps]

When is Discovery on, again? I thought it was 8:30 or 9:00 ET in the U.S.

I think it's 9:30 which is ridiculously late.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The Expanse benefited greatly because there was an established canon of books to mine. Thus the showrunners didn't have to spend much time thinking about big picture issues of plot and characterization, they could just adapt what was already written. The early seasons of Game of Thrones had the same advantage...and the series has declined into bleh because it's clear they can't mine GRRM's plotting and characterization any more to drive the show along.

Though I like The Expanse, my one major nitpick with the series is they added a lot of interpersonal drama between the (eventual) Roci crew which just didn't exist in the books, where they were all coworkers for years and knew one another pretty well.

I honestly felt the crew was far too nice and heroic in the books where I much liked it was a dog eat dog universe in the show.

 

[Borgminister]

8.30 p.m. eastern

 

[SJA]

I honestly felt the crew was far too nice and heroic in the books where I much liked it was a dog eat dog universe in the show.

I just finished the first book and I have to say - though it may be heresy to book fans - I think I liked the TV Show better! Hey! Maybe we could change this thread into 'The Expanse Book V The Expanse TV Series' Might be more edifying...

 

[Charles Phipps]

Technically, I should also note Seth MacFarlane is a Star Trek actor himself and appeared in "The Forgotten" as a minor character.

 

[Markonian]

Technically, I should also note Seth MacFarlane is a Star Trek actor himself and appeared in "The Forgotten" as a minor character.

And in “Divergence”. His character transferred to the NX-02.

 

[ITDUDE]

There has never been such a divide between two parties... well since last November:

http://www.metacritic.com/tv/star-trek-discovery

http://www.metacritic.com/tv/the-orville

I have never seen Critics and The Normal People so divided. And I for once side with with the People on this one. STD is a decent sci-fi show, but it's being dragged down by the name Star Trek. Call it whatever you want, just not Star Trek. The Orville on the other hand is another decent sci-fi show that is still defining itself. It's not Star Trek, but it's not trying to be. Free of the brand, it can do whatever it wants. I am a looooong time (just check my join date here) fan of Star Trek, but I find STD... not that interesting, while I look forward to every new episode of The Orville.

Now of course, Fox being Fox, The Orville will last two seasons (they'll give MacFarlane two seasons, partially to appease him because of all he did for them over the years), while we will be forced to watch STD until such time that CBS abandons it (3-4 years? they invested too much money into it to let it go earlier than that)