Dilithium Crystals -- What's the Point?

[Crazy Eddie]

Why are they needed? I mean if you use a powerful magnetic field wouldn't that be enough to contain the matter/anti-matter reaction?

Why are those crystals needed at all?

I must tell you that this is not canon information, and I am something of a heretic for believing in it but goddammit I still do:

[heretic]What we commonly call "electroplasma" is an ionized gas in which all of the protons have been converted into anti-protons; since both have a negative charge, they do not recombine into stable atoms and therefore both remain ionized even at room temperature. The result is a gaseous substance with an enormous negative charge; hence its use as a conduit for electrical energy all over the ship (and hence the sometimes nasty effects when you rupture a plasma conduit; antiprotons combine with protons and go "boom").

What this means is, the warp core doesn't combine matter and antimatter so much as it CREATES antimatter like a giant particle accelerator (hence the reason for those two long core segments constantly pulsing away on the E-D). Much the way positrons can be produced by striking a metal target with gamma rays, antiprotons can be produced by striking a dilithium target with highly accelerated deuterium atoms; the protons and neutrons are converted into positrons while the electrons float away in the plasma and are siphoned off by the ship's electrical systems.[/heretic]

The canon reason is that dilithium "moderates" the matter-antimatter reaction. This is sort of nonsensical since matter and antimatter will react just fine without a "moderator," but whatever.

 

[Mytran]

...as early as "Mudd's Women" it's made clear that the ship's power ran through the crystals, and weren't the source

According to this episode the ship's energy didn't just flow through the crystals, it was drawn through them.

SPOCK: The entire ship's power is feeding through one lithium crystal.
KIRK: Well, switch to by-pass circuits.
SCOTT: We burned them all out when we super-heated. That jackass Walsh not only wrecked his vessel, but in saving his skin
KIRK: If it makes you feel better, Engineer, that's one jackass we're going to see skinned.
SCOTT: But it's frustrating. Almost a million gross tons of vessel depending on a hunk of crystal the size of my fist.
SPOCK: And that crystal won't hold up, not pulling all our power through it.

It seems that the power is not just charging the crystals (assuming that's the case), but coming out again in some form to provide energy for the ship's systems.
It also seems that the crystals are not essential since Kirk asks to switch to bypass circuits. Presumably these are a less efficient system than the crystals, but still perfectly workable (unless burned out of course!)
Under this model, the crystals seem to be a form of power converters, that change the raw energy from the M/AM reaction into a form usable by the ship's life support, deflectors, inertia dampeners and so on.

"Elaan of Troyius" made it pretty clear that the dilithium regulated the power flow from the M/ARC, mainly when then irregular shape of the crystals from Elaan's necklace cause the energy flow to be erratic.

I think you are referring to this:

SPOCK: Captain, these are crude crystals. There is no way to judge what the unusual shapes will do to the energy flow.

All that really says is that energy flows through the crystals, not that the crystals regulate the flow. The potential problem Spock mentions is due to the odd shape of the stones.

Also, after re-reading the dialogue in this episode, the techspeak offered seems unsure at times, almost going from stating that M/AM reactions power the ship to suggesting that dilithium crystals themselves do it!

SCOTT: The anti-matter pods are rigged to blow up the moment we go into warp drive.
KIRK: Scotty, that bomb he planted. Can you dismantle it?
SCOTT: Not without being blown halfway across the galaxy.
...
SCOTT: I've got bad news, Captain. The entire dilithium crystal converter assembly is fused. No chance of repair. It's completely unusable.
KIRK: No chance of restoring warp drive?
SCOTT: Not without dilithium crystals. We can't even generate enough power to fire our weapons.
...
SCOTT: Our shields will hold for a few passes, but without the matter-antimatter reactor, we've no chance.

So dilithium crystals alone can propel a ship to warp? Or did Scotty remove that bomb on the anti-matter pods after all? The energy flow that they eventually use on the necklace stones had to come from somewhere!

 

[Timo]

Also, after re-reading the dialogue in this episode, the techspeak offered seems unsure at times, almost going from stating that M/AM reactions power the ship to suggesting that dilithium crystals themselves do it!

The heroes themselves would probably use inaccurate language in this respect, equating key components of their power system with the system itself...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

Also, after re-reading the dialogue in this episode, the techspeak offered seems unsure at times, almost going from stating that M/AM reactions power the ship to suggesting that dilithium crystals themselves do it!

The heroes themselves would probably use inaccurate language in this respect, equating key components of their power system with the system itself...

The writers did like to mix it up sometimes

But in TOS, the use of the crystals is distinctively different from how it was used in other series after it. Funny enough, the TOS setup is very much like some laptops that are connected to the AC outlet. Pull the lithium-ion battery and it can't power up but put it back in it works fine plus the lithium ion battery can supply power temporarily if the AC power is pulled.

 

[Timo]

But in TOS, the use of the crystals is distinctively different from how it was used in other series after it.

Only if we want to see it as the TOS writers saw it. We can interpret the dialogue in other ways, too, seeing the crystals as filters or focusers or converters in the energy flow just like in TNG - we just happen to see a range of interesting malfunctions or misuses in TOS, as well as the accompanying maintenance steps or corrective measures.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

But in TOS, the use of the crystals is distinctively different from how it was used in other series after it.

Only if we want to see it as the TOS writers saw it. We can interpret the dialogue in other ways, too, seeing the crystals as filters or focusers or converters in the energy flow just like in TNG - we just happen to see a range of interesting malfunctions or misuses in TOS, as well as the accompanying maintenance steps or corrective measures.

That's quite a stretch. Are there any episodes after TOS where it was possible to eject the dilithium while the M/AM reactor was running at full power? Or any episodes after TOS where the dilithium could be bypassed (if the dilithium converter assembly was undamaged) ?

If you were trying to get TOS to mesh with the TNG tech then it could be argued that in the TNG continuity/version of TOS, the dilithium crystals were used to regulate the M/AM reaction. In TNG "Relics" the TNG Scotty made reference to a cold start that required a proper warp field phase lock that took at least 30 minutes while the TOS Scotty in "The Naked Time" could do a cold start that warmed up the antimatter in 22-23 minutes. Slightly different versions of the same episode which can be spun as slightly different continuities

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, just to think "outside the box" for a moment. Perhaps the TOS writers (or at least some of them) were thinking of dilithium crystals along the lines of the crystals in a crystal radio set, where the crystal is tuned to the radio signal(s) and also powers the radio set itself as the only source of power?

The warp reactors may emit radiation(s) that can be recieved by properly tuned (shaped?) crystals that then power the ship (and even fed right back into the reactor as a power source)? This way, the dilithium housing could be anywhere on the ship, and even openly inspected, without interupting the "flow" of energy (as long as it remains in the "Circuit")?

I know this isn't how things ended up in later Trek, but it may be a way that we can get a handle on what the writers/producers of TOS were thinking?

 

[Lord Manitou]

The ship must be in subspace before it powers up and goes to velocity. After that it is not intelligence but brute force-- and alot of power. So dilithium is just used to sustain a high rate of energy.

 

[blssdwlf]

@TINMAN - you might be onto something. dilithium crystals could be seen as the equivalent to the varicap/varactor diode which can be used as voltage controlled capacitors and still have tng style phase lock terminology attached to it

 

[Ronald Held]

So dilithium crystals had different uses in TOS, versus ENT and TNG onward?

 

[Mytran]

Once TNG came along and set down concrete rules on how dilithium crystals operated inside the warp core (which was itself a new concept for the show), attempts were made to retcon how the crystals operated in TOS and the movies. However, this often doesn't mesh with the dialogue in TOS episodes, as the writers were working from a slightly different operating principle.

Tinman and Blssdwlf - the notion that the crystals were power convertion devices was mentioned earlier on this very thread - but then again that was back in August 2009, I guess this topic is a stayer!

 

[Vance]

Why are they needed? I mean if you use a powerful magnetic field wouldn't that be enough to contain the matter/anti-matter reaction?

Originally the 'lithium crystals' were tying into, at the time, new battery technology. They were supposed to be futuristic, but when it was pointed out that 'lithium batteries' were not only real, but something a lot of the audience was already buying up, they had to be made more 'future' sounding.. hence, 'dilithium'. (It's the same reason we got tri-cobalt bombs. Cobalt bombs actually exist!)

Why are those crystals needed at all?

Their explanation 'in universe' has evolved over the years. Originally they didn't contain the M/AM at all and simply provided a focus for the resulting high-yields of power. Think of it as working the same way a lens works for lasers.

Being able to hold anti-deuterium on their own is some later-year technobabble which ignores very basic physics and helps make modern Trek somewhat of a laughing stock. As the bullshit mounted thanks to Hollywood script-jocks with no technical sense, the more ridiculous dilithium's properties and powers would become.

As of now, it's basically 'wizard crystal'. It does, magically, whatever the writers want for any given episode. Somehow, it makes the ship go.

 

[blssdwlf]

Once TNG came along and set down concrete rules on how dilithium crystals operated inside the warp core (which was itself a new concept for the show), attempts were made to retcon how the crystals operated in TOS and the movies. However, this often doesn't mesh with the dialogue in TOS episodes, as the writers were working from a slightly different operating principle.

Tinman and Blssdwlf - the notion that the crystals were power convertion devices was mentioned earlier on this very thread - but then again that was back in August 2009, I guess this topic is a stayer!

Fascinating Just add in "holding a charge" and we've got a winner

 

[TIN_MAN]

"Tinman and Blssdwlf - the notion that the crystals were power convertion devices was mentioned earlier on this very thread - but then again that was back in August 2009, I guess this topic is a stayer! "

Ah yes, the fire crystals of Atlantis and the Sun stones of Dinotopia etc. excellent!

 

[timelord1010]

To answer an earlier post, TNG still used Dilithium, in the episode "Relics", LaForge told Scotty that the dilithium is reconfigured in the matter stream. I think that's how it went, it's been a few years since I saw it.

 

[blssdwlf]

This sounds soooo much like a dilithium crystal

(from wikipedia)
Varicap or varactor diodes

These are used as voltage-controlled capacitors. These are important in PLL (phase-locked loop) and FLL (frequency-locked loop) circuits, allowing tuning circuits, such as those in television receivers, to lock quickly, replacing older designs that took a long time to warm up and lock. A PLL is faster than an FLL, but prone to integer harmonic locking (if one attempts to lock to a broadband signal).

and replaced with Trek stuff:


These are used as matter/antimatter-controlled capacitors. These are important in PLL (phase-locked loop) and FLL (frequency-locked loop) circuits, allowing tuning circuits, such as those in matter/antimatter intermix chambers, to lock quickly, replacing older designs that took a long time to warm up and lock. A PLL is faster than an FLL, but prone to integer harmonic locking (if one attempts to lock to a warp field).

 

[Timo]

Are there any episodes after TOS where it was possible to eject the dilithium while the M/AM reactor was running at full power? Or any episodes after TOS where the dilithium could be bypassed (if the dilithium converter assembly was undamaged)?

I guess not. We could take that as a side effect of TNG mastering the in situ re-energizing trick. Back in TOS, reactors had to be built with multiple dilithium foci, so that one could yank out a drained crystal from one focus and have it nursed back to health by Lieutenant Masters, while the others kept the ship running. In TNG, there'd only be one dilithium focus, and if the in situ maintenance systems on that failed, main power would have to be cut.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

Using magnetic fields, you could contain the matter reactants from the D-AD reaction. Neutrinos and photons would leak out.
Isn't the (post TOS) point of dilithium to contain and send all of the reaction energies in a plasma stream to the warp coils?

 

[Trekker4747]

Ok here's how I understand it.

At it's most basic level the warp core combines matter and and antimatter to create an enormous burst of energy which is then used to power the ships various systems, most notably the warp drive.

The role of dilithium is to moderate this reaction and control it to the point where it can be useful. It takes a flashy explosion of energy that's gone in an instant and turns it into a trickle of energy that can be used.

Keep in mind we're not talking about anti-particles, as anti-electrons exist and are in use today but do not produce devastating explosions, there's orders of magnitude difference between a positron (an anti-electron) and what the ships in trek use, anti-Heavy Hydrogen atoms.

Dilithium when charged, or in a natural particular crystalline state, allows antimatter to pass through it "without actually touching it" this prevents the antimatter from reacting with the matter in the dilithium -how is irrelevant it just "does."

The antimatter meets up with the matter (Heavy Hydrogen) inside the dilithium, annihilates one another and produces a huge amount of energy (sort of the point of E=MC^2, small amount of matter produces a large amount of energy.)

So think of the Hydrogen Bomb tests in the 1930s-1950s the bomb detonates and instantly there's a humongous explosion that cannot be contained which is why fusion power is such a holy grail right now. It's an enormous explosion and we've no way of containing it to make any use of it other than blowing stuff up. At the same time our sun is producing an H-Bomb's worth of explosions every second within its core but it takes years or even centuries for the released energy in the core of the sun to find its way to the surface where it'll finally make its journey to Earth. That's what dilithium is doing. It's containing the massive release of energy produced by the M/AM reaction and releasing it slowly in a very directed stream to where the system can make the best use of it.

Instead of one huge, instant, explosion going everywhere it's getting a "slow release" of energy going in two specific directions (down the Power Transfer conduits.) Now, the "release" of this energy may only be slowed by nanoseconds but it's enough for the ship to manage energy better than it would if it just let things happen willy-nilly.

Dilithium, IMHO, contains, concentrates and controls the release of the M/AM energy release into a very specific and controlled manner. Dilithium can do this because it's "somehow" able to manipulate antimatter without touching it (either because of a peculiarity in dilithium's atomic makeup or by being charged by other systems.)

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^ Sounds good, but let's not forget that dilithium also captures and converts neutrinos into usable energy as well.