Didn't like the movie? How would YOU have made it?

[The Wormhole]

Y The Enterprise would NOT be the flagship of the Federation.

Indeed, there shouldn't be ANY "flagship of the Federation", as that phrase makes no logical sense. A flagship is that which is used by a specific Admiral of a fleet. It's wherever his or her 'flag' is. THAT is what the word 'flagship' means. It's high time Trek started using it that way.

This is one of those things you can't really blame Trek for. The term "flagship" gets misused so often these days that everyone assumes it means the capital or equivelant. I just consider Trek to be one of many sources that can't get it right.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

The question is, can these people write a great script that everybody likes, or just a script that only Trekkers like yourself like?

It's not like Orci and Kurtzman wrote a script that everybody liked.

They wrote a script that most people liked. This led to a movie that most people liked....

But we weren't talking about 'most' people. He said 'everybody' and as a matter of actual fact not 'everybody' liked the new flick.

How many people did like it was irrelevant to that particular quote and response.

Actually, it's relevent to both. I'm simply clarifying the relevent truth behind the question.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Joking aside, from a visual perspective I would have preferred what they did in "In A Mirror Darkly" 1 and 2, keeping the original TOS look but enhancing it to be on par with modern standards. So, we have 1701 digitally remastered outside and inside, "modern" warp effect, add more phaser banks ( blue!) and visible torpedo launchers. Uniforms are the same as in XI. More TOS looking ship classes. I'll consider characters and plot later.

yep this sounds like a good start to me!

As much as I love TOS and the original Enterprise, it would not have gone down well for a general audience.

This is a simple truth that must be faced.

Nothing we say or do will change the layman's reactions.

 

[Wynterhawk]

More eyebrow action from Quinto.

 

[Shazam!]

They wrote a script that most people liked. This led to a movie that most people liked....

But we weren't talking about 'most' people. He said 'everybody' and as a matter of actual fact not 'everybody' liked the new flick.

How many people did like it was irrelevant to that particular quote and response.

Actually, it's relevent to both.

No it isn't.

 

[The Castellan]

That works if you've got this movie set a bit later in the Trek timeline than ST09 was, but it has to be done carefully to prevent audience confusion between the Enterprise and some other Constitution class ship

Oh, that's easy.....just use a different name and number...and there ya go.

For example: USS CASTELLAN NCC-1705.

 

[JarodRussell]

That works if you've got this movie set a bit later in the Trek timeline than ST09 was, but it has to be done carefully to prevent audience confusion between the Enterprise and some other Constitution class ship

Oh, that's easy.....just use a different name and number...and there ya go.

For example: USS CASTELLAN NCC-1705.

Yes, the audience is not dumb, for crying out loud!

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

But we weren't talking about 'most' people. He said 'everybody' and as a matter of actual fact not 'everybody' liked the new flick.

How many people did like it was irrelevant to that particular quote and response.

Actually, it's relevent to both.

No it isn't.

Seems relevant to me, could you actually elaborate a little bit on why you disagree Shazam!, it seems a little beneath you to just say "no" without explaining the why?

 

[M'Sharak]

Actually, it's relevent to both.

No it isn't.

Seems relevant to me, could you actually elaborate a little bit on why you disagree Shazam!, it seems a little beneath you to just say "no" without explaining the why?

His original quibble with the use of "everybody" (most likely not intended by Dusty to denote unanimous approval in the first place) has gotten bogged down in a wrangle over whether "most people" is the same thing as "everybody", when clearly they are not the same. See here:

The question is, can these people write a great script that everybody likes, or just a script that only Trekkers like yourself like?

It's not like Orci and Kurtzman wrote a script that everybody liked.

They wrote a script that most people liked. This led to a movie that most people liked.

Dusty asks a question: can they (Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, et al) write a great script that everybody likes (for the next movie)? Shazam! talks past the question by countering that they (Orci, Kurtzman) didn't write a script that everybody liked (for the movie already released -- see what's happening here?) OneBuckFilms says they wrote a script (for the movie already released) that most people liked.

Shazam! may have been technically correct when he stated:

How many people did like it was irrelevant to that particular quote and response.

but the original question (concerning the script for the next movie) has by now been left several oh-yeahs and nuh-uhs behind, and the only point remaining, such as it is, lies in splitting hairs about something which wasn't really part of the question at all.

I don't see any need to elaborate further.

 

[3D Master]

Joking aside, from a visual perspective I would have preferred what they did in "In A Mirror Darkly" 1 and 2, keeping the original TOS look but enhancing it to be on par with modern standards. So, we have 1701 digitally remastered outside and inside, "modern" warp effect, add more phaser banks ( blue!) and visible torpedo launchers. Uniforms are the same as in XI. More TOS looking ship classes. I'll consider characters and plot later.

yep this sounds like a good start to me!

As much as I love TOS and the original Enterprise, it would not have gone down well for a general audience.

This is a simple truth that must be faced.

Nothing we say or do will change the layman's reactions.

Oh, please. The Layman's reactions showed they couldn't even tell the difference between the new Enterprise and the one from TOS. The old one properly pushed up with modern technologies and detail, would have worked just as well.

Similarly, that everyone is all happy about the uniforms that essentially exactly the same as the original, once again showed, the audience would have been just fine with it.

Now, how would I have done it. First off, indeed the outside of the ship would have been the same as the original TOS, with a few improved detail here and there - that is, if the Enterprise is even in it. The insides would have gotten an upgrade, but have kept the same feel as the original - that is, it would seem like a fully functional modern bridge, and yet at the same time, have enough of the color scheme of the old, that you could squint and believe it's the same ship.

There would be no time travel, period.

If I deal with the Kobayashi Maru, Kirk would have done it after lots of times trying it, and he'd be frustrated, unwilling to give up. Cheating on it, he'd do at the prompting of Gary Mitchell; and it wouldn't be a simple virus sent to some chick (talk about bad computer science.) He'd lead a group of cadets, after convincing them with arguments and his innate leadership qualities, that they should work together to beat the simulations - one more reason why he'd be commended later on. He also wouldn't sit through the simulation like an a-hole, indeed he'd be the nerd and geek he's said to be in the first years of his carreer. The he'd take the simulation, even the reprogrammed one seriously, and even reprogrammed the simulation wouldn't be easy.

The story would deal with Kirk's time as a Lieutenant at the Academy, both teaching and going through the command program - of which teaching is part of. He'd take one class of cadets out on a training mission that would go to shit. McCoy would be part of it, as would be Mitchell. He'd have to deal with Orion pirates and Klingons. The ship that would be the vessel for the cadets would be the Enterprise under Captain Pike, Number One and science officer Spock, and would show Spock's and Kirk's first working together - which doesn't actually go to well. Spock isn't entirely impressed with Kirk. It'll also show Kirk and Pike's loose friendship forming.

In the last scene, "a certain number of years later" would have Kirk taking over the Enterprise from Pike, who hands it over to Kirk with pleasure.

The story would be partially political intrigue and partially action; weaving a multi-layered story.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No one can write a script that everybody likes. Orci and Kurtzman contributed centrally to a film that was enjoyed by many more people than usually bother to see a Star Trek movie, so that's certainly progress - and so far there's no evidence that this greater audience consists mainly or largely of folks who are less smart or discerning or demanding than the much smaller, very enthusiastic audiences that supported Trek movies in their heyday (the 1980s).

 

[Devon]

The old one properly pushed up with modern technologies and detail, would have worked just as well.

And as we saw in the new film, it did work just as well.

Similarly, that everyone is all happy about the uniforms that essentially exactly the same as the original, once again showed, the audience would have been just fine with it.

I didn't hear these comments by the general audience saying how impressed they were that the uniforms were the same.

If I deal with the Kobayashi Maru, Kirk would have done it after lots of times trying it,

He only took it three times.

Cheating on it, he'd do at the prompting of Gary Mitchell; and it wouldn't be a simple virus sent to some chick (talk about bad computer science.)

Viruses do exist you know.

 

[3D Master]

The old one properly pushed up with modern technologies and detail, would have worked just as well.

And as we saw in the new film, it did work just as well.

The ship in the new film is NOT the TOS ship properly pushed up with modern technologies. It's abomination, multiple parts of different ships slapped together, and slapped together in horrible proportions to boot. It's ugly as shit.

Similarly, that everyone is all happy about the uniforms that essentially exactly the same as the original, once again showed, the audience would have been just fine with it.

I didn't hear these comments by the general audience saying how impressed they were that the uniforms were the same.

Nobody claimed any impression on the ship either. Nor any claim about how ugly and bad and sixties the uniforms were.

If I deal with the Kobayashi Maru, Kirk would have done it after lots of times trying it,

He only took it three times.

That would be the problem.

Cheating on it, he'd do at the prompting of Gary Mitchell; and it wouldn't be a simple virus sent to some chick (talk about bad computer science.)

Viruses do exist you know.

Firewalls exist as well. As does proper compartmentalization. Some cadet opens her e-mail, there's no way anything in that e-mail should even be able to get to computer systems of a simulation, let alone get past it's defenses.

 

[Devon]

Ya. Here's another thing I'd do different.

1. The Enterprise would NOT be the flagship of the Federation. I understand that it's the Enterprise, but I don't see a reason why it has to be given top billing. It's almost like when they made Anakin/Vader the 'chosen one'. Why? What was the point?

The Enterprise-D was apparently referred to as the "Federation Flagship" at one point as well. It is what it is.

2. There should be numerous other Constitution Class ships in the fleet. That's how it was in the Original Series, and why make only one good ship? I doubt movie audiences are that stupid in figuring out that there are in fact more ships that resemble the Enterprise.

What makes you think they already exist at this point?

It's just one of those things that's always bothered me in every series following the Star Trek movies that they would never show a Constitution Class vessel but EVERY OTHER CLASS.

Because they want the hero ship to stand out and to be "the one." It has to be indistinguishable. Simple. The Enterprise fighting another Constitution Class ship rather than a Miranda Class ship in "The Wrath of Khan" would have looked completely stupid and confusing, especially in the distance views of the ships in the nebula. Plus we got several new ships out of them doing this a lot.

What you're speaking of matters not to a general audience.

The ship in the new film is NOT the TOS ship properly pushed up with modern technologies. It's abomination, multiple parts of different ships slapped together, and slapped together in horrible proportions to boot. It's ugly as shit.

You're going into something completely different. What you should have said is "I want the TOS Enterprise done my way" rather than what put forth as your initial criteria, which the new ship does meet.

Nobody claimed any impression on the ship either. Nor any claim about how ugly and bad and sixties the uniforms were.

Why would most be comparing? Most of them probably don't even realize what the old one looked like. What they saw worked for a film in 2009 portraying what a future vehicle might look like, more convincingly so than the TOS bridge which was a 1960s view of what the future may look like. What you saw was an already bias view against the design simply because it wasn't like the older one.

That would be the problem.

Not exactly "a lot of times" if you meant.

Firewalls exist as well. As does proper compartmentalization. Some cadet opens her e-mail, there's no way anything in that e-mail should even be able to get to computer systems of a simulation, let alone get past it's defenses.

They were using Norton. End of story.

 

[3D Master]

1. The Enterprise would NOT be the flagship of the Federation. I understand that it's the Enterprise, but I don't see a reason why it has to be given top billing. It's almost like when they made Anakin/Vader the 'chosen one'. Why? What was the point?

The Enterprise-D was apparently referred to as the "Federation Flagship" at one point as well. It is what it is.

Yes, and the Enterprise-B and beyond only became that way AFTER Kirk turned the name Enterprise into a legend.

You're going into something completely different. What you should have said is "I want the TOS Enterprise done my way" rather than what put forth as your initial criteria, which the new ship does meet.

No, it does NOT fit my initial criteria, and only someone obtuse would think so.

Why would most be comparing? Most of them probably don't even realize what the old one looked like. What they saw worked for a film in 2009 portraying what a future vehicle might look like, more convincingly so than the TOS bridge which was a 1960s view of what the future may look like. What you saw was an already bias view against the design simply because it wasn't like the older one.

Of course not. The TOS Enterprise is only the most iconic starship in all SF history to the point it hangs in the Smythsonian and everyone has seen it no doubt at least once.

And tell me, where exactly was I talking about any bridge? Oh, yes, of course, because you don't want a genuine discussion do you? You just spend your time throwing bullshit at writing box and hope people don't notice.

Case in point:

That would be the problem.

Not exactly "a lot of times" if you meant.

Yeah, again, that would be the problem.

Firewalls exist as well. As does proper compartmentalization. Some cadet opens her e-mail, there's no way anything in that e-mail should even be able to get to computer systems of a simulation, let alone get past it's defenses.

They were using Norton. End of story.

Again, THAT would be the problem. Starfleet Academy shouldn't be using some off the shelf and badly designed security package, they'd hermetically seal things with their own security.

 

[M'Sharak]

2. There should be numerous other Constitution Class ships in the fleet. That's how it was in the Original Series, and why make only one good ship? I doubt movie audiences are that stupid in figuring out that there are in fact more ships that resemble the Enterprise.

What makes you think they already exist at this point?

Even if they do exist, it's not necessarily a problem -- it's just that they're all engaged in the Laurentian system with all of those other ships we never see (the bulk of the fleet.)

Firewalls exist as well. As does proper compartmentalization. Some cadet opens her e-mail, there's no way anything in that e-mail should even be able to get to computer systems of a simulation, let alone get past it's defenses.

They were using Norton. End of story.

Again, THAT would be the problem. Starfleet Academy shouldn't be using some off the shelf and badly designed security package, they'd hermetically seal things with their own security.

I'm pretty sure that Devon was joking there.

If I deal with the Kobayashi Maru, Kirk would have done it after lots of times trying it,

He only took it three times.

That would be the problem.

As pertains to Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru simulation, it seemed to me that attempting it a third time was unheard-of, or nearly so. As far as we know, most cadets would encounter it only once, be defeated, accept the evaluation of how they performed under pressure, and then move on. Essaying the test a second time would not be the norm, yet Kirk does so, still playing by the rules, and again he doesn't win. Going at it one more time under any circumstances is "a lot of times" in that context, wouldn't you say?

I can't think of anything in previously-established canon which suggests that the Kobayashi Maru test is a thing which cadets are expected or encouraged to repeat over and over, and I thought that the dialogue in TWoK establishing that Kirk took it three times was intended as a demonstration of his extraordinarily stubborn unwillingness to accept defeat. If everyone took the test three times as a matter of routine, then Kirk's having done so becomes less significant, right?

 

[3D Master]

2. There should be numerous other Constitution Class ships in the fleet. That's how it was in the Original Series, and why make only one good ship? I doubt movie audiences are that stupid in figuring out that there are in fact more ships that resemble the Enterprise.

What makes you think they already exist at this point?

Even if they do exist, it's not necessarily a problem -- it's just that they're all engaged in the Laurentian system with all of those other ships we never see (the bulk of the fleet.)

I'm pretty sure that Devon was joking there.

Of course he was, joking to try and diminish a point.

 

[The Castellan]

I said it once, I'll say it again.

I'd get rid of:
1:Star Destroyer sized Starfleet ships
2:Generic villians
3:Cupcake....that always makes me facepalm
4:The brewery

 

[Broccoli]

What makes you think they already exist at this point?

Even if they do exist, it's not necessarily a problem -- it's just that they're all engaged in the Laurentian system with all of those other ships we never see (the bulk of the fleet.)

I'm pretty sure that Devon was joking there.

Of course he was, joking to try and diminish a point.

Or, more likely, joking just to joke...

 

[OneBuckFilms]

I said it once, I'll say it again.

I'd get rid of:
1:Star Destroyer sized Starfleet ships
2:Generic villians
3:Cupcake....that always makes me facepalm
4:The brewery

1. Large Starships are impressive visually. If the ship somehow appears small on screen, the film fails.

2. The Villain was the plot device he should be. Too much time on him would take time away from the real focus: the crew. But if it the villain could be done better, I'm up for it.

3. I thought it was fun, IMHO. But I could take or leave it.

4. Blue screen and practical set combined. Maybe Movie 2 could improve on this. We agree here.