Did you find the Bajorans boring?

[Bad Thoughts]

I find it ironic that other on these boards have written that the Bajorans' antagonists, the Cardassians, were the most fleshed out Trek species. Of course, we don't see a variety of modes de vie--professions, belief system, etc. Indeed, we see little civilian life life, and almost no life that is not touched by the state's institutions of violence and surveillance. Among the Bajoran scientists trying to build a communications system into the Gamma Quadrant is a member of the Obsidian Order. The only civilian who we encounter in a sustain manner, Mila, is clearly affected by the military's reach into public life. And I don't think it's clear that the civilian government of the fourth season really overturned the Guls' hold on the state. Of course, Cardassia is presented as a militarized society, not something that is unrealistic. What we do see is a deep exploration of Cardassian psychology and mentality. Although Garak, Dukat, Dumar, Evek, Mila, ..., have distinct personalities, it feels as if they share a Weltanschauung that is unique to Cardassians: about truth, the future, order, discipline, love. They are always ready vivdly to express how their outlook is different from humans'. I particularly find it interesting that in the context of Cardassian society, Dukat may be loving and merciful. Civil Defense goes a long way to showing how different Cardassian values can be, whether they involve justice or love (I love when Garak calls out Dukat for flirting with Kira when it looks like he's just being an asshole).

I wouldn't suggest that Cardassians are a better fit for most fleshed out species. However, I find it interesting that two of the most obvious answers were not just fleshed out by the same series, but they were enemies and rivals. Staying in place, the show had to explore both sides of a complex and antagonistic relationship. Throughout the series, there are ways that a relationship with Bajor affects Cardassia, becoming an indirect influence toward reform, until the very people who fought against the occupation informed the values of Cardassia's resistance (pro-democracy?) movement. ETA: I should go further to say that DS9 explores the relationships between species more than other series, the Bajoran-Cardassian being the richest.

(Klingons could also be argued to be most fleshed out, though much of that happened on DS9, when they were fighting against the Cardassians over the same piece of real estate.)

 

[Navaros]

Yes, Bajorans are boring, but that is not the main problem with them. The main problem with Bajorans is that they are almost always inherently annoying/obnoxious. That goes for Kira too for the entirety of Season 1.

Hearing Bajorans whine endlessly about how much they hate the Cardassian occupation every minute that they are on-screen is the antithesis of entertainment.

On top of that, their chopped-up noses make them eyesores to look at. So they are visually obnoxious as well.

The DS9 show would have been much better if Bajorans had no part in it whatsoever.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Ugh...we face those questions every single day, and so did our grandparents. I don't watch a show about the future to think more about present-day human beings and our problems, I watch it to kick back and enjoy a vision of the future in which a lot of that doesn't matter.

Considering every episode of DS9 is somehow related to Bajor and it's troubles directly or indirectly, and it's my favorite series, my issues with the Bajoran recovery obviously aren't much of a problem. In Sci-Fi, I just prefer scenarios that are less obviously a reflection on humanity.

Maybe if they gave them fangs or something, I dunno. The nose ridge doesn't separate Bajoran culture and history enough from Humanity's to really engage me in their tragic plight. I can watch that on CNN.

That's fine. But I think that there is something about stepping back and looking at the problem through the prism of entertainment, that gives some perspective on today's headlines. To be honest, I don't know how you can enjoy DS9 if you feel that way. it was full of moral questions and ambiguity. Liars and crooks, thieves and merchants, and the mundane progress that is made in a society. They didn't fall. They succeeded. And I think that is why this show is more hopeful than today's headlines. It seems on CNN, that nothing is as clear-cut as fiction. No one vanquishes all evil or creates the perfect government. I thought the point was to make them more like us. To investigate those facets of humanity that Star Trek had said it vanquished. I think this show can give context to CNN.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[milquetoast]

As a species I found them rather boring but the episodes that dealt with Bajoran politics(Progress, ITHOTP, the Circle Trilogy, etc) were highlights of the first few seasons IMO and I missed that aspect in the later years.

I would also of liked to have seen some non religious Bajorans, it seemed every Bajoran we saw believed in the same thing without reservation.

^ I completely agree with this. I would have liked them to take the caste system further than they did. They only have one episode of pure conflict with that. I suppose you could argue that Odo was a non religious Bajoran.

 

[CaptainCag]

I liked how they were religious nuts that didn't want science taught in schools.

 

[Sci]

I think I enjoy the Bajorans much more in the novels than I did in the TV shows. I'm not sure how much of that is due to TV writing, or how much of that is due to factors like acting choices/talent, TV production budgets, etc.

I do think that part of the problem for me with the TV Bajorans is that too many storylines, especially in later years, ended up being dominated by the Prophets/Pagh-wraiths arc. I don't object to stories about the Bajoran Church per se, but I think that the mysticism overshadowed the actual Church as a Bajoran institution and exploration of Bajoran culture.

I also think it would have been a better idea to outline more formalized divisions within Bajoran society. We get a vague notion that there are progressives and regressives within Bajoran society, but no real sense of there being competing political parties. We never fully understood how the Chamber of Ministers worked, or the issues facing the First Minister. We didn't get to see Bajoran elections up close, just an episode or two. We never learned about any diverse Bajoran nationalities or ethnicities. And most egregiously, there only seemed to be one Bajoran church -- to the point where we never even learned the formal name of the Bajoran religion. We certainly didn't get a good view of a genuine minority religious movement, for instance.

 

[Red Omega]

Good points Sci. I happened to like a culture that was very spiritual. And I think they were pretty well executed.

 

[publiusr]

They at least gave us an interesting wormhole. I would have loved to see this:

Dukat acting as Emissary for the Pah-Wraiths, finds a way to stabilize the Barzan wormhole after having Empok Nor towed to it.

Now the process we saw the captain of the Equinox use in harvesting bio-energy from the nucleogenic creatures, Dukat uses on the wraiths as stabilization.

We see an invasion fleet from..somewhere...about to break through, where Sisko used the Vulcan psionic resonator ( Stone of Gol ) to stop it.

That Stone of Gol is shaped like a mandible, and I can just see an hourglass orb at its thinnest fitting inside that gap.

Sisko uses the shuttlepod like El Baz with this combo, and all he gets out of it are two very confused Ferengi

 

[spacedock1]

What an odd thread!

Personally I loved the Bajorans and I felt, relatively speaking, that they were one of the first 'fleshed out' species in Trek. The Romulans have always been backstabbing, bowl-cut fiends...the Klingons oafish meatheads...the Vulcans just 'we are logical' peddlers...

The Bajorans were far more fleshed out. They had religious beliefs, they had a bloody and terrible recent history. Their society was torn between moderates and extremists, caught between former enemies and lethargic liberators.

The mere fact that the Bajorans looked human and didn't have a boatload of make-up just made them more relatable.

They weren't some uber cool zombies like the Borg, or funky and mysterious like the Dominion....they were a normal, diverse species struggling to survive.

well said.

I think what makes the Bajoran race simultaneously boring and interesting to us is that they are cast as a counterpoint to humanity. They are a plot device that allows Trek to explore parts of humanity that are currently present in our lives, such as secular religious faith, slavery, etc - stuff that is supposed to have been phased out in our species by the 24th century.

Personally, I prefer the crazy aliens with the funny makeup, but I don't think Bajorans are boring, they are just too much like us, the viewers.

again, well said.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think it's easier to justify having a single religion on a planet if you can directly observe the Gods to exist.

 

[JD5000]

I think it's easier to justify having a single religion on a planet if you can directly observe the Gods to exist.

Did they ever directly observe their gods before Sisko 'discovered' the Wormhole\Celestial Temple? The religion is at least 2-3 millenia old by that time, I think.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

This is definitely a case of the stories of the Bajorans being more interesting than the Bajorans themselves as a species. I don't think that makes them a bad species, they just don't stand out as much as the more flamboyant and adversarial species that are popular.