Did you find the Bajorans boring?

[Michael]

Their colors were muted, their fashion was boring, and it seemed like all of the actors selected to play Bajorans aside from Kira, Ro, Winn, and Opaka were always phoning in their performances. And if we ever saw anything distinctive and cool about them - ship designs, planetary landmarks, anything - then I can't recall it. The best we got were the Orbs of the Prophets, and 1. they weren't Bajoran, really, they were Wormhole-Alien-ian, and 2. they seemed more like plot devices than actual things.

On the contrary, I appreciated how they gave all things Bajoran a distinctive, recognizable look. From the sets, the props, the symbols to the costumes, the beautiful matte paintings and even the makeup – they made it look like everything originated in one place, from one culture. The "muted" earth tones, of course, signaled their spiritual world-view and status. Their minimalist "alien" makeup was made up to make them more relatable to us viewers (plus, it cost less to make up larger crowds ).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

You include Leeta as not boring and not Kira?

The actress who played Leeta was quite good but she was a fairly boring character. She pretty much only took the role of flirtation with Bashir and then romance with Rom. Her character was mostly defined in terms of being the object of male character's lust and/or affection.

I agree most of the Bajoran characters were boring, but their culture was not. Just a lot of the interesting aspects of their culture were under-explored.

 

[ALF]

Bascially, yes.
Maybe we can call them the Baj-orings.

The main characters were great (Ro, Kira, Kai-Winn, etc) but as a race they weren't much fun.
It's like the scene from Trekkies tells us so much, they are interviewing fans who look like Klingons and they are all crazy and fun and shit (and eating at Wendys) and then they ask a group of Bajorans something and they reply with some sort of dogmatic response about The Emmisary (which is a classic Bajoran thing to do).

But I get why they exist in Trek, they have to exist so that the Cardassians can exist in the story.

 

[dub]

I think DevilEyes said it best in this old thread.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Kira, Ro, Sito, Opaka, Winn - all interesting.

Oops. I left Sito out of my list - I agree, but she wasn't a DS9 Bajoran character.

Every time Winn got that supercilious expression on her face, with the false smiles and the "child" remarks - as though Kira were 2 years old instead of an independent adult woman, I wished I could reach through the TV screen and slap her.

WORD

...their fashion was boring, ...

They did enable one of the dealers' room merchants at one of the conventions I went to, to turn a nice profit with "Bajoran earrings." It seemed like half the membership was wearing those things (not me - I don't do earrings).

My daughter has a few of those - but that only makes sense, since her middle name is Nerys. (My wife and I wanted a strong female sci-fi/fantasy character with a name beginning with 'N' to go with her pretty but more conventional first name that starts with a 'T', so that her initials could be TNT. )

You include Leeta ... mostly defined in terms of being the object of male character's lust and/or affection.

And it worked very well! But for some reason, it's hard for me to think of her as Bajoran. Her personality and her build with both fairly far removed from what the rest of the Bajorans (except maybe Sito) led me to think of as "Bajoran".

 

[Timewalker]

You include Leeta as not boring and not Kira?

The actress who played Leeta was quite good but she was a fairly boring character. She pretty much only took the role of flirtation with Bashir and then romance with Rom. Her character was mostly defined in terms of being the object of male character's lust and/or affection.

It was her job to be sexy and flirtatious with Quark's customers. That doesn't mean it's who Leeta was as a private individual.

 

[USS Triumphant]

It was her job to be sexy and flirtatious with Quark's customers. That doesn't mean it's who Leeta was as a private individual.

True, but I never got the impression that she was quite as touched, somehow, by the Cardassian Occupation as the rest of the Bajorans were were shown (aside from maybe Sito). Maybe her family was away from Bajor during the occupation - fled to someplace more civilized like a lot of Iranians after the revolution there in '79 (as one of many possible examples) - and they only returned when the Occupation ended? Memory Alpha has no canonical background for her from before her first appearance on DS9.

 

[Kirby]

They were one notch more interesting than Statgate: Atlantis' Athosians, who were the most boring species ever. That's not saying much.

 

[RCAM]

As a species I found them rather boring but the episodes that dealt with Bajoran politics(Progress, ITHOTP, the Circle Trilogy, etc) were highlights of the first few seasons IMO and I missed that aspect in the later years.

I would also of liked to have seen some non religious Bajorans, it seemed every Bajoran we saw believed in the same thing without reservation.

I think it makes sense that there's more uniformity in their religious beliefs than those here on Earth, because the Bajorans have proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Prophets exist and there is scientific evidence that their "powers" are real.

Obviously, for a non-Bajoran, it's easy to call them "wormhole aliens," but there's no denying they exist.

Ensign Ro didn't seem very religious, she seemed to disbelieve in the idea of spirits in the afterlife and didn't want the really long Bajoran Death Chant to be performed at her funeral.

There were definitely exceptions, but I was just responding to why a majority would all share the belief. In "Earth terms," you basically have Christians (those who follow the Prophets), Luciferians (the Wraith followers), and atheists so far as I could see.

(I hope the analogy doesn't insult anyone's sensibilities. Not a commentary on Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, or any other faith.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It was her job to be sexy and flirtatious with Quark's customers. That doesn't mean it's who Leeta was as a private individual.

True, but I never got the impression that she was quite as touched, somehow, by the Cardassian Occupation as the rest of the Bajorans were were shown (aside from maybe Sito). Maybe her family was away from Bajor during the occupation - fled to someplace more civilized like a lot of Iranians after the revolution there in '79 (as one of many possible examples) - and they only returned when the Occupation ended? Memory Alpha has no canonical background for her from before her first appearance on DS9.

Leeta has no family that she knows of. She grew up in an orphanage. That's why "Leeta" is her only name - she never knew her family.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The uniforms....ugh...

Well, Bajoran uniforms had to do only two things: hide Rene Auberjonois' old physique and show off Nana Visitor's tush. Everyone else was on their own.

 

[JD5000]

I think what makes the Bajoran race simultaneously boring and interesting to us is that they are cast as a counterpoint to humanity. They are a plot device that allows Trek to explore parts of humanity that are currently present in our lives, such as secular religious faith, slavery, etc - stuff that is supposed to have been phased out in our species by the 24th century.

Personally, I prefer the crazy aliens with the funny makeup, but I don't think Bajorans are boring, they are just too much like us, the viewers.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

What an odd thread!

Personally I loved the Bajorans and I felt, relatively speaking, that they were one of the first 'fleshed out' species in Trek. The Romulans have always been backstabbing, bowl-cut fiends...the Klingons oafish meatheads...the Vulcans just 'we are logical' peddlers...

The Bajorans were far more fleshed out. They had religious beliefs, they had a bloody and terrible recent history. Their society was torn between moderates and extremists, caught between former enemies and lethargic liberators.

The mere fact that the Bajorans looked human and didn't have a boatload of make-up just made them more relatable.

They weren't some uber cool zombies like the Borg, or funky and mysterious like the Dominion....they were a normal, diverse species struggling to survive.

 

[JD5000]

Personally, I prefer the crazy aliens with the funny makeup, but I don't think Bajorans are boring, they are just too much like us, the viewers.

The mere fact that the Bajorans looked human and didn't have a boatload of make-up just made them more relatable.

I think we illustrated the differences in the two opinions and why in two sentences that didn't waste many words. High five!

 

[HaventGotALife]

^ You mean like the Pah-Wraith cult?

In my interpretation of what was said, I don't think that's what he meant. The absence of religion does not equal playing for the other team. You still accept a god if you are a Satan worshiper. People who felt there was no order to the universe and didn't need religion or that all the gods were dead (and obviously would be proven wrong).

-----------------

OP: I found the Bajorans interesting. I liked dealing with their politics. I liked the episodes like Shakaar (they almost started a civil war), Progress, The Circle trilogy, In the Hands of the Prophets, Accession, and countless Kira episodes like Necessary Evil, etc.

So what did I like about them?

I enjoyed that it highlighted the theme of oppression. They get the ball rolling down the hill. So we hear about what goes into fighting for independence. But what comes immediately after that? Do the factions stay united? How much religion do you have in your government? What traditions do you keep in place, if any? From "this provisional government is far too provisional for my taste. And when governments fall, people like me are lined up and shot." It's not a given that the government will stay in its present state. All these people so used to fighting for what they want--can they settle down and enter a parliament? And what Kira addresses, is how someone who lives on fear, anger, rations, and danger can somehow cope with that trauma. She didn't like what she was doing, but she hated the Cardassians more. And the more they showed that part of the character, the more interesting she got. What do you do with collaborators? What moral decisions were made during the Occupation that flip during peace time? For instance, Kira killing that man in Necessary Evil. Is that murder? Do the ends justify the means? Or the Cardassian accused of war crimes. Or the guy who does the taxes for the Cardassians and happens to be Bajoran?

Needless to say, they answered all those questions and more, especially in the first two seasons. It was studying an alien culture for the first 2-3 years of the series. Just one and how it related to the Federation, to the Cardassians, to the Dominion, etc. They moved to the backdrop in season 5. But before that, every week there was a layer to peel off the onion. I enjoyed that aspect of the show--as an adult.

 

[HaventGotALife]

What an odd thread!

Personally I loved the Bajorans and I felt, relatively speaking, that they were one of the first 'fleshed out' species in Trek. The Romulans have always been backstabbing, bowl-cut fiends...the Klingons oafish meatheads...the Vulcans just 'we are logical' peddlers...

The Bajorans were far more fleshed out. They had religious beliefs, they had a bloody and terrible recent history. Their society was torn between moderates and extremists, caught between former enemies and lethargic liberators.

The mere fact that the Bajorans looked human and didn't have a boatload of make-up just made them more relatable.

They weren't some uber cool zombies like the Borg, or funky and mysterious like the Dominion....they were a normal, diverse species struggling to survive.

You said it better than I.

 

[JD5000]

Ugh...we face those questions every single day, and so did our grandparents. I don't watch a show about the future to think more about present-day human beings and our problems, I watch it to kick back and enjoy a vision of the future in which a lot of that doesn't matter.

Considering every episode of DS9 is somehow related to Bajor and it's troubles directly or indirectly, and it's my favorite series, my issues with the Bajoran recovery obviously aren't much of a problem. In Sci-Fi, I just prefer scenarios that are less obviously a reflection on humanity.

Maybe if they gave them fangs or something, I dunno. The nose ridge doesn't separate Bajoran culture and history enough from Humanity's to really engage me in their tragic plight. I can watch that on CNN.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think looking more like humans did contribute to the Bajorans being relatable. I'm sure there are some of the audience who react that way but I think most of the races in Trek look close enough to humans not to trigger peoples' 'Not like me' prejudice. It's only the races with such heavy makeup that you can't see their emotional reactions on their faces like Morn who would fall into that category.

It's more that they have problems that hit closer to home. They don't just look more like humans, they behave more like humans. Bajoran jerks look like human jerks, they don't just represent one exaggerated aspect of the human condition, they represent everything about it that we were told has changed in the 24th century.

I've never understood people who need to see themselves in somebody in order to care what happens to them.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

What an odd thread!

Personally I loved the Bajorans and I felt, relatively speaking, that they were one of the first 'fleshed out' species in Trek. The Romulans have always been backstabbing, bowl-cut fiends...the Klingons oafish meatheads...the Vulcans just 'we are logical' peddlers...

The Bajorans were far more fleshed out. They had religious beliefs, they had a bloody and terrible recent history. Their society was torn between moderates and extremists, caught between former enemies and lethargic liberators.

The mere fact that the Bajorans looked human and didn't have a boatload of make-up just made them more relatable.

They weren't some uber cool zombies like the Borg, or funky and mysterious like the Dominion....they were a normal, diverse species struggling to survive.

You said it better than I.

Thanks , Im glad some people dont find our Bajoran friends dull.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

I don't think looking more like humans did contribute to the Bajorans being relatable. I'm sure there are some of the audience who react that way but I think most of the races in Trek look close enough to humans not to trigger peoples' 'Not like me' prejudice. It's only the races with such heavy makeup that you can't see their emotional reactions on their faces like Morn who would fall into that category.

It's more that they have problems that hit closer to home. They don't just look more like humans, they behave more like humans. Bajoran jerks look like human jerks, they don't just represent one exaggerated aspect of the human condition, they represent everything about it that we were told has changed in the 24th century.

I've never understood people who need to see themselves in somebody in order to care what happens to them.

I think you are somewhat warping what has been said [pun not intended]. Nobody here is saying that the aliens on ST need to look human for us to give a damn about them. I've lost count of the number of alien species I have felt for over the course of watching the franchise.

However, the fact that the Bajoran's lacked a 'gimmick' [warriors, telepathic, stoic and logical, bred for war, deceitful] helped them seem less limited and more realistic.

Many of these 'more alien' cultures are also fairly two dimensional. Its hard to feel overly sympathetic to a Romulan when they are mostly portrayed as backstabbing, bowl-cutted liars. When we were given a reason [such as in 'The Defector' we, the audience, are able to sympathize with them].

The Bajorans, however, were happy, sad, despairing, hopeful, vengeful, meek and a huge number of other things. They were also male, female, religious, terrorists, white, black...

Sadly the other species are frequently just carricatures. Its not a failing on the audiences part, or some lack of empathy as you seem to be implying. Its simply that DS9 fleshed out a species in a way that many others [any?] never were so, naturally, we can relate to them.