Did Vulcans seem hypocritical at times?

[Tracy Trek]

It was established in the animated series episode Yesteryear that Spock was bullied by his classmates when he was a child. This was brought up again in Star Trek 2009. If you consider these 2 sources canon. I believe it was mentioned in the original series episode Journey to Babel by Spock's mother.

Now does it seem logical for a race that is supposed to embrace infinite diversity in infinite combinations (IDIC) to denigrate someone for being different? At least in the 2009 movie, it wasn't just the children who were doing it. The old men on the committee for the Vulcan Science Academy just had to bring up the fact that they thought his human mother was a disadvantage to him.

 

[T'Girl]

Vulcans don't live up to their press

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Vulcans are no more hypocritical than people who fall short of their own codes. The word in our own language for it is "human." Being imperfect is what we are, and in that sense, it's realistic to portray aliens as behaving in ways that are at odds with their own cultural values. Like, Klingons were shown behaving dishonorably. Hypocritical is too strong a word to apply so generally, especially to children. In the particular case of leaders, hypocritical might or might not be an appropriate description of their behavior, depending on what they are doing, including but not limited to whether they are sitting in judgment of others or being arrogant. In general, arrogance is one thing that can make hypocrisy an apt description.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Logic doesn't equate to perfection. The Vulcans have always used logic to justify a wide variety of actions, both good and bad.

 

[Greg Cox]

There is always a gap between a culture's ideals and their actual behavior. That applies to Vulcans as well as to any other species.

And cultures also sometimes have built-in contradictions, like believing in IDIC and being strict traditionalists when it comes to Vulcan ways.

Although one can rationalize that IDIC is more about accepting that other cultures and other ways have value . . . for non-Vulcans.

To give the Vulcans their due, they've never tried to impose their beliefs and traditions on other species. Perhaps because they realized that it would be illogical to expect a human or Klingon to live like Vulcan.

(FYI: the bit about Spock being bullied by other Vulcan children does indeed date back to "Journey to Babel.")

 

[uniderth]

Well you must also consider that Vulcanians are not emotionless because of genetics. They are very emotional and passionate people biologically. Intellectually they have chosen to suppress their emotions in favor of logic. That means that every Vulcanian child is basically going back to square one in suppressing emotion. They are probably harder to raise than human children especially to suppress their emotions.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

No worse than humans claiming to have evolved beyond their past imperfections, at least.

Vulcan culture is more diverse than we see in the TV show. The logical, superior veneer they put on is how they present themselves to other cultures, and a lot of that is because it masks their heavily suppressed dark side. Vulcans are hard on humans for the same reason humans are hard on Klingons and Ferengi; they see the sins of their past in them.

Vulcans who have lost their emotional control have been some of the scariest people we've seen in Trek. The Vulcans we see in DS9 include one who misapplies logic to join a doomed rebellion, one who loses control and logically decides to kill everybody who displays emotion, and one who projects his insecurity about his superiority onto Sisko who in his mind represents all that is wrong with humans. The positive examples of Vulcans we've seen are just Vulcans who have won the battle over their own emotions, there are multitudes who do not win.

 

[Greg Cox]

No worse than humans claiming to have evolved beyond their past imperfections, at least.

Vulcan culture is more diverse than we see in the TV show. The logical, superior veneer they put on is how they present themselves to other cultures, and a lot of that is because it masks their heavily suppressed dark side. Vulcans are hard on humans for the same reason humans are hard on Klingons and Ferengi; they see the sins of their past in them.

Vulcans who have lost their emotional control have been some of the scariest people we've seen in Trek. The Vulcans we see in DS9 include one who misapplies logic to join a doomed rebellion, one who loses control and logically decides to kill everybody who displays emotion, and one who projects his insecurity about his superiority onto Sisko who in his mind represents all that is wrong with humans. The positive examples of Vulcans we've seen are just Vulcans who have won the battle over their own emotions, there are multitudes who do not win.

Heck, as far back as "Amok Time" we had T'Pring coolly scheming to get Kirk or Spock killed to achieve her own goals. And Spock admits in "Journey to Babel" that his father is perfectly capable of killing in cold blood if he has a logical reason to do so.

And let it be noted that those were the first times we ever saw a Vulcan other than Spock.

The Vulcans have never been roles models for humanity.

 

[borgboy]

I always had just a wee bit of sympathy with T'Pring. I don't justify what she did, but she was a victim of archaic and sexist laws. She had no sane and harmless option available to her if she didn't want to marry Spock. She was in her own way of a victim of Vulcan's oppressive and hypocritical laws.

Sarek always infuriates me with his own prejudices against Spock's human traits after he himself chose to marry and have a child with a human woman. It seems terribly illogical and hypocritical to demand that his half human son repress any human traits.

Vulcans are really fascinating, but part of their appeal is their deep flaws and contradictions.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Sarek always infuriates me with his own prejudices against Spock's human traits after he himself chose to marry and have a child with a human woman. It seems terribly illogical and hypocritical to demand that his half human son repress any human traits.

Vulcans are really fascinating, but part of their appeal is their deep flaws and contradictions.

I think you've summed it up perfectly. Perhaps because Spock was going to be raised on Vulcan, he had to seem twice as good at everything than his peers.

Also, the one who brought up the Vulcan captain who was taunting Sisko in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite". Yes, he was another one I was thinking of who seemed quite rude.

 

[Captain Rob]

Just because you talk the talk. Doesn't mean that you can walk the walk.

With Vulcans being born naturally with such extreme emotions and passions. You'd think that being half Human would naturally reduce and tamp down those emotions and passions.

 

[T'Girl]

Heck, as far back as "Amok Time" we had T'Pring coolly scheming to get Kirk or Spock killed to achieve her own goals.

To be fair, it was Vulcan's society that insisted that in order for T'Pring to escape a marriage to a male she didn't love, someone had to die.

The original intent (imho) was that Stonn was to fight Spock, Kirk was spur of the moment decision. Either way then her lover would live.

Yes, Kirk and Spock are our friend.

But I've never had a problem with T'Pring or her decision.

 

[xortex]

Vulcans are telepathic Romulans. Enterprise did an episode with emotional Vulcans. I would have liked to see them get picked up by Romulans at the end. Another Ball dropped.
Vulcans have emotions, they just dont display them as it is a cultural moree.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, the one who brought up the Vulcan captain who was taunting Sisko in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite". Yes, he was another one I was thinking of who seemed quite rude.

Solok was the most hypocritical Vulcan ever featured in Trek. He openly expressed emotion (usually smugness - I'm not entirely sure if Solok had any facial expressions other than sneers), exhibited racial prejudice and dislike for humans, and believed the Vulcans were a "superior race". If that's not illogical I don't know what is. Hell, even Soval was a better Vulcan than Solok was.

That being said, I admit I didn't exactly shed a tear about what eventually happens to Solok and his ship:

Spoiler: Destiny trilogy

They are destroyed by the Borg.

 

[xortex]

Heck, T'Pau had a smugness and distaste for Humans as well as Spock did. 'Are thee Vulcan or art thee human?' She said it with such disgust.

 

[Timo]

If that's not illogical I don't know what is.

Why should it be illogical to believe that Vulcans are superior to humans, and then to express that belief rather than try and hide it? Vulcans are superior, in every respect Solok specified. The belief thus is well founded, and it's logical to believe in true things.

It's much harder to justify the logic of lying to lesser species that they aren't lesser. Either they will be grievously misled by this, or they will see through the lies and feel doubly bad about it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The very concept of a "superior" race is inherently irrational and illogical; and, thus, inappropriate for a Vulcan to express.

Actually it's inappropriate for humans, too, when you think about it.

 

[Timo]

Bullshit. Solok was specific about the attributes where Vulcans trump humans. He got his facts straight.

That something should be declared "inappropriate" because of obscure tradition or bleeding-heart sentiment or, heaven forbid, religious sensibilities is the height of illogic. Truth is truth, lies are lies. Although of course each truth is a lie in not being utterly complete or unambiguous.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[xortex]

A lie can be the greatest truth there is. The Vulcans could have been infinitely more advanced than Humans and only took on the conventions of being Humanoid like the Orgaians did and the people from Omega Glory did. Spock was a hybrid between higher life and Humans. He was a Vulcan Ambassador after all exploring his imagination which included Kirk and company.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Solok was a racist, pure and simple.

Even if there are legitimate areas where the Vulcan species might have the advantage (such as physical strength), Solok's problem was that he enjoyed pointing it out. He rubbed everyone's face in it. I suspect that the reason his ship had an all-Vulcan crew was simply that he hated humans so much he didn't want any of them 'polluting' his crew. 'Course, what human would want to serve with somebody like that anyway?

Not even Soval was that bad - Soval was a dick, true, but at least he pretended to be objective about it.