Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

[Guy Gardener]

TNG ended in DS9 season 3 when Voyager stared. Logically they had All that unspentTNG money to throw around that year to get Voyager off to a healthy start, the following year is when DS9 would have got it's cash injections when they could afford Worf, and maybe they could have afforded Worf in season 3 but just didn't think that they needed a full time new cast member stylistically at that point.

I say logically becuase I just pulled this out of my ass.

But TNG would have cost a lot more to make than Voyager, simply becuase it was using models and it's actors had been getting raises for 7 years, ergo the difference in cost between the price of TNG and the price of Voyager went to DS9.

 

[teya]

Besides even after removing Lien, they still needed to find more money, because it's highly unlikely that they would have been paid the same.

They probably fired a couple boom operators as well.

I doubt Jeri would have gotten any more money than Jennifer at that point--she wasn't well-known.

 

[ALF]

Great poem, teacake.

I feel that it got 'better' but Kes was never a problem character. I've always been very critical of Voyager as in my mind, it was never as good as I'd hoped when it started... however when I did get back into it (season 7 finale) and then rewatched the whole thing, I felt Seven came along at the right time to shake things up.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Besides even after removing Lien, they still needed to find more money, because it's highly unlikely that they would have been paid the same.

They probably fired a couple boom operators as well.

I doubt Jeri would have gotten any more money than Jennifer at that point--she wasn't well-known.

Oh, just on par with Mulgrew and Picardo who certainly got paid more than Kes. An elf in the back ground with four lines about how the Doctor is too a real person, compared to characters that were mostly expected to be responsible for half of most any given script.

I really wish we knew how much these people were paid, how is it still a secret?

But Wang and Lien possibly got paid maybe 10 grand an episode less than Mulgrew, because "Janeway" is expected to be a more dominating character.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked Kim. Even though he was underdeveloped, he was used to balance out the more insane characters. He was the straight man for Paris, Seven and B'elana, and the most identifiably human character. But if not him, why Lien? Why not Beltran or Phillips?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Beltran is a minority, he's made entirely of wood, and sacking Ethan would have ruined their complete denial about how awful every facet of Neelix truely was.

If Lien had had surprised the Bees with a tasteful "spread" in Maxim or FHM (Both Roxanne and Jeri have been in at least one of these publications half naked.) as they were sharpening the axe for her neck, I wonder if that would have saved her job?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In Maxim as what, the cute kindergarten teacher gets naughty for the lads?

This is not working in my head.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Doesn't explain why none if the main actors of DS9 were fired when Worf joined THAT show though.

Because Michael Dorn's salary was paid by the props department.

 

[Dream]

Doesn't explain why none if the main actors of DS9 were fired when Worf joined THAT show though.

Because Michael Dorn's salary was paid by the props department.

Is that suppose to be some kind of joke?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Is that suppose to be some kind of joke?

Yes, it was a joke.

 

[Dream]

Is that suppose to be some kind of joke?

Yes, it was a joke.

I almost believed you for a moment.

 

[Jaro Stun]

Better
When i feel nostalgic i watch s2-3 though

 

[Transphasic]

It got better, yes. but not because Kes left. Kes suffered along with Chakotay, Kim and Paris as not being developed by the writing staff. Although personally, Kes was not an interesting character to me. How many psychic characters does a franchise need? They could have, however, done something along the lines of her gaining incredible power and having to adjust to being around those who didn't have the same abilities. She easily could have been distanced from the crew, like 7, and needed Janeway's help to reconnect to those around her. Of course she wasn't the eye-candy hottie that 7 was, so why do it. Besides, Borg are cool. The issue isn't did 7 replace Kes, it's that the stories got better after season 3. Not Kes's fault.

 

[exodus]

Oh no, it was better with Kes.

Okay, but would the show have been better if they ditched Harry for 7 like they originally intended? It seems like Harry is one of those characters who went no where and almost never got any sort of real character development. He only had one episode dedicated to him in season 1 and it wasn't very good and he never really improved with time.

I agree but I do think Harry/Tom had more ongoing potential than Kes/EMH. Tom and Harry were great opposites that brought a certain balance to each character. I think by s5, the EMH wasn't going to need Kes' guidance anymore because he was already on his way to being fully independent by the end of s3. I don't really see where they had developed a strong enough bond with Kes' interaction with others as they did Harry. Harry had more interaction and stronger relationships with Tuvok, B'Elanna & Janeway than Kes ever did. Plus I don't see any other character on Voyager being as believably affected by survivor guilt as Harry was in "Timeless".

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Harry was the sidekick. Too bad Tom wasn't more of the Bad Boy, would have enhanced the sidekick quite a bit.

 

[exodus]

Harry was the sidekick. Too bad Tom wasn't more of the Bad Boy, would have enhanced the sidekick quite a bit.

I think it depends on how you view a "bad boy".
Had Voyager been a social non-military based show, Tom wasn't bad boy enough. I agree. However, Tom was insubordinate in just the fact that her talked back to Janeway and always spoke out of term. By military standards Tom is a bad boy. Tom would have NEVER been allowed to serve on the Enterprise and Sisko would have punched him in his mouth every other show.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But he could have been the Bad Boy in his private time. In his private friendships and private relationships. He could have been a Curzon (lothario), a Starbuck (crazy), a Garibaldi (believable past addiction). Instead we get a pleasant fellow who gets a bit mouthy now and then by strict military standards. Vanilla.

 

[exodus]

But he could have been the Bad Boy in his private time. In his private friendships and private relationships. He could have been a Curzon (lothario), a Starbuck (crazy), a Garibaldi (believable past addiction). Instead we get a pleasant fellow who gets a bit mouthy now and then by strict military standards. Vanilla.

If he was that bad, then would Janeway still have gotten the ok to get him released from prison? It was the "Great Santini". Tom was only a bad boy cause he had a over bearing military minded father. He was never good enough in his fathers eyes, so he was bad because he gave up trying.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Those bad boy examples (with certain exceptions in Starbuck's case) are all personal flaws or character traits.

Would they have released Tom if he'd screwed his way across half a quadrant like Curzon? Sure.

Would they have released Tom if he'd been an alcoholic but was now sober? Sure.

Would they have released Tom if he was an erratic nutjob like Starbuck? Possibly, if he'd kept that to his personal life and showed a lot of line toeing when it came to authority.

Any of those would have made the Bad Boy label believable.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tom was a bad boy because he joined the Maquis.

Which would be exceptional on any other ship other than Voyager which was 25 percent Maquis who had been around longer than a week before they got pinched in a raid, then rolled over on the cause.

Sounds like a punk to me.