I've wondered... if Tom had left at the end of Season 15 or 16, a Troughton or Pertwee length in the role, would the show have been in better shape to handle the pressures and challenges of the eighties?
Did Tom Baker really stay too long?
- Thread starter The Four Doctor
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Interesting question. The answer lies with the strength of the producer at the time, Graham Williams. Williams primary contributions to the show were creating the role of Romana (a positive) and bringing in Douglas Adams as script editor (mixed, IMHO). In the absence of Tom Baker, what sort of Doctor would he have imagined?
I enjoyed most of Leela's run, and Romana's (Both Romana I and 2), as well as the Espace Trilogy and the ending Master Arc and Davison's run, just as much as the prior years, so, I never felt the show spiraled prior to Colin Baker's run.
And, while Colin Baker had some bad stories, I still enjoyed several of them, and thought McCoy's only bad year was his first.
And, while Colin Baker had some bad stories, I still enjoyed several of them, and thought McCoy's only bad year was his first.
Well, having missed almost half of his real life tenure in the role, Tom will presumably be much less identified in the public mind as THE Doctor Who and, for the "man in the street", the show wouldn't be as all over as it was.
We've gotten used to actors dropping out of the Doctor role frequently in the revived series. There's no rule that says you shouldn't go over 3 years and when you think about how long a time lord is supposed to live, it actually is pretty stupid to have the character slip and fall into a regeneration so often. So no. I would have tried to hold onto any actor as the Dr. for as long as possible rather than having a revolving door.
^ My guess is that if that had a very popular Doctor, the BBC would rather if they stayed longer! No point rocking the boat when you don't need to. I get the impression that all Doctors in the modern series left under their own free will rather than the BBC wanting turnover.
As to the OPs question. No, I don't think Tom Baker stayed too long. I think the ebb and flow in the quality of the series had more to do with the Producer than the actor. I think Tom left at the right time.
Mr Awe
As to the OPs question. No, I don't think Tom Baker stayed too long. I think the ebb and flow in the quality of the series had more to do with the Producer than the actor. I think Tom left at the right time.
Mr Awe
Gosh, I can remember a time when Tom Baker was the ONLY Doctor to most people worldwide.
I enjoyed all of Baker's years but do feel he became a bit stale after the Key of Time series. You can certainly tell his heart isn't in it by his last season.
It may have helped the show if he had left sooner but all the TOS Doc's after him would probably have been different than they were.
I enjoyed all of Baker's years but do feel he became a bit stale after the Key of Time series. You can certainly tell his heart isn't in it by his last season.
It may have helped the show if he had left sooner but all the TOS Doc's after him would probably have been different than they were.
While the whole Eleven/Amy thing really did work out with the "first face this [new] face saw" angle and their bond, I kinda do wish sometimes that Tennant had stayed for Series 5 as Moffat originally planned. Would've been interesting to watch. The tenth doctor went down a dark road near the end with his specials, so Amy could've been the person to bring him back, so to speak. Seeing her as a child, then again as an adult, finding a new purpose...it would've been similar to the role that Clara played in getting Eleven out of his post-Ponds funk. Plus there's the whole River thing, with her having known Ten from Silence in the Library.
Of course, it worked fabulously with Matt Smith and the whole stylistic change and clean break from the previous era, but it still would've been interesting to see...
Of course, it worked fabulously with Matt Smith and the whole stylistic change and clean break from the previous era, but it still would've been interesting to see...
Buck Rogers kicked Who's arse in Season 18. Doctor Who was king-hit and blindsided... as it was by The A-Team during Colin's era. Had Season 18 had a fresh and energetic Doctor, who was five to ten years younger, not performing with a telephone and who the viewers had not become fatigued with... who knows how the show could have fared against Buck?
Agreed. I love Tennant's Doctor and would like to have seen more of him...but I loved Matt's even more. It's a real wanting to have my cake and eat it scenario for me.
"Dr. Who" fell into a trap similar to "Star Trek: TNG"--it was a victim of its own success (IMO, of course). Tom Baker was popular enough and got powerful enough that the show eventually became "The Tom Baker Show." Then, JNT came in and ran the show for the rest of its run, foisting well-intentioned but ultimately terrible production decisions on the show. (Yes, I've heard he wanted to leave but got strong-armed into staying to prevent the show from being cancelled. I don't know one way or another about that.)
As with Trek, where you had the Unholy Trinity of Stewart, Spiner, and Berman & Braga that essentially put a bullet in the head of the Trek film franchise almost as soon as they took over. (There's only one watchable TNG movie, IMO.)
I'm watching Peter Davison episodes for the first time since the mid 1980s and you can see glimpses of potential coming through, but the production is saddled with scripts that make no sense, Halloween costume costume choices (I just realized that, starting with "Leisure Hive" the characters increasingly wear uniforms. You've got the Doctor, of course, then Adric and Turlow run around in exactly one outfit. Tegan has her stewardess uniform an Nyssa wears her Traken outfit for the longest time. Eventually Nyssa finds the TARDIS wardrobe, but even after Tegan rejoins the crew, she'll wear the same outfit for 3+ episodes.
But I'm digressing. To come back on point, about the time Tom Baker stops wearing a tie and buttoning his waistcoat is when Tom Baker had been around too long. And they never should have put JNT in charge. Oh, and Mary Whitehouse didn't help things. The best stories were the early Leela stories (and even the Sarah Jane stories before that) that she had a fit about being too scary for kids. That was what brought in Williams and Adams and (along with the general trend in the '70s) the campy factor. Who's to say? Maybe if the show hadn't lost its edge, maybe Baker wouldn't have been a problem. Maybe Mary Whitehouse bears the bulk of the blame.
As with Trek, where you had the Unholy Trinity of Stewart, Spiner, and Berman & Braga that essentially put a bullet in the head of the Trek film franchise almost as soon as they took over. (There's only one watchable TNG movie, IMO.)
I'm watching Peter Davison episodes for the first time since the mid 1980s and you can see glimpses of potential coming through, but the production is saddled with scripts that make no sense, Halloween costume costume choices (I just realized that, starting with "Leisure Hive" the characters increasingly wear uniforms. You've got the Doctor, of course, then Adric and Turlow run around in exactly one outfit. Tegan has her stewardess uniform an Nyssa wears her Traken outfit for the longest time. Eventually Nyssa finds the TARDIS wardrobe, but even after Tegan rejoins the crew, she'll wear the same outfit for 3+ episodes.
But I'm digressing. To come back on point, about the time Tom Baker stops wearing a tie and buttoning his waistcoat is when Tom Baker had been around too long. And they never should have put JNT in charge. Oh, and Mary Whitehouse didn't help things. The best stories were the early Leela stories (and even the Sarah Jane stories before that) that she had a fit about being too scary for kids. That was what brought in Williams and Adams and (along with the general trend in the '70s) the campy factor. Who's to say? Maybe if the show hadn't lost its edge, maybe Baker wouldn't have been a problem. Maybe Mary Whitehouse bears the bulk of the blame.
^same here. I could've handled a few more adventures with that Doctor.
Indeed, JNT was essentially strong-armed by the BBC into staying for Sylvester McCoy's run, which was probably some of the best Who done on JNT's watch. Though what might have helped there was that JNT basically did as minimal work possible to get a paycheck while Andrew Cartmel basically had free reign. And while I don't agree with all aspects of the "Cartmel Master Plan" it's clear he at least knew what he wanted done and had a vision for the show, moreso than anyone else employed under JNT's reign.
That's not really an accurate assessment of the TNG movies. Braga left after First Contact, and had absolutely nothing to do with Insurrection and Nemesis.
Tom Baker tried to leave twice and the BBC wouldn't let him leave. But it's hard to say for sure he stayed too long, the Williams' era was a low point but I thought his final season made up for some of that. He was increasingly difficult to work with and he knew it. For as bad I think Nightmare Of Eden and The Horns Of Nimon are they were entgertaining stories just not the greatest.
I would have to say, in retrospect, no, I for one am glad we had him as long as we did, other wise we wouldn't have gotten some of the greatest episodes of his career near the end of his run.
I would have liked it if Romana had stayed longer. Regardless of actress, since she could also regenerate.
That is a concept that I was hoping they'd pull in recent years, either with River Song (once we found out what she was) or some other Time Lady that escaped Gallifrey (or Romana again). They could try it was the Master, but the idea is more that you can have a Companion that can be with the Doctor across any season and any Doctor because the actresses can come and go, just like the actors for the Doctor. Only when the character gets to her 13th body do we get full on crisis time every time she's hurt.
That is a concept that I was hoping they'd pull in recent years, either with River Song (once we found out what she was) or some other Time Lady that escaped Gallifrey (or Romana again). They could try it was the Master, but the idea is more that you can have a Companion that can be with the Doctor across any season and any Doctor because the actresses can come and go, just like the actors for the Doctor. Only when the character gets to her 13th body do we get full on crisis time every time she's hurt.
As much as I love a lot of the Williams era, he really didn't handle actor departures very well, even Leeson's was fudged. He seems to have generally thought actors would just sign up again and didn't put any thought into writing them out even when they made it clear they were off until it was either almost (in Jameson's case) or entirely (for Tamm) too late.
Resulting in a either a very hasty exit or having to cover their departure without them at the start of the next season.
The best case scenerio for a Baker departure would have been Williams not hastily putting a regeneration at the end of a random story, but getting Tom on a one story contract to write him out properly at the start of the next year (IIRC something similar happened to Hartnell, he was technically a-well paid- guest star for The Tenth Planet as his contract was already used up). The former is far, far more likely under Williams.
Worse case is a Romana style regeneration opening a year without Tom at all. I have something of a fondness for Romana's change, but it would have been murder to do that with the lead actor.
Well, he threatened to leave. He freely admits that was a bargaining tool/petulance and he was surprised when JNT cheerfully said "OK then!" the third time.
