• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Did they kill “baby Spock” with the katra in Search?

Much as Kirk losing his father right after his birth and growing up with an abusive uncle turned the Kelvin Timeline version of the character into a juvenile delinquent who had to go through Starfleet Academy and Nero's attacks on Vulcan and Earth to become a more mature and disciplined adult who could accept responsibility and take orders. Kirk in the Kelvin Timeline is essentially the Kirk we know and love, just from a broken and unstable home where he was constantly at conflict with others.
 
Gave him thick eyebrows and a totally different face too! :lol: And it enabled him to rise through the ranks to Captain in just a few days as well! :techman:
JB
 
Much as Kirk losing his father right after his birth and growing up with an abusive uncle turned the Kelvin Timeline version of the character into a juvenile delinquent who had to go through Starfleet Academy and Nero's attacks on Vulcan and Earth to become a more mature and disciplined adult who could accept responsibility and take orders. Kirk in the Kelvin Timeline is essentially the Kirk we know and love, just from a broken and unstable home where he was constantly at conflict with others.
He definitely is not the Kirk I know and love!
 
...This despite us actually seeing a photograph of Nimoy Spock and Shatner Kirk in the hands of Quinto Spock. So it's not even a "they looked different in their youth" issue, with its possible "The Cage" implications, but a very specific instance of movie magic and suspension of disbelief.

Timo Saloniemi
 
...This despite us actually seeing a photograph of Nimoy Spock and Shatner Kirk in the hands of Quinto Spock. So it's not even a "they looked different in their youth" issue, with its possible "The Cage" implications, but a very specific instance of movie magic and suspension of disbelief.
Really, it's no more a suspension of disbelief than seeing another actor playing a younger version of the same character in a flashback. And that's more or less all ST09 is. The main reasons it was set in a separate universe were to give the filmmakers as much freedom as possible and to avoid the more obsessive TOS fans from blowing a gasket.

And welcome back, @Timo!
 
A much more confusing situation would be, say, when James Bond in the disguise of Sir Hilary Bray from the London College of Arms visits Ernst Stavro Blofeld in OHMSS, with Bond knowing it's Blofeld (duh, bald head and sinister disposition in addition to the white cat running around) but Blofeld seemingly not knowing that "Sir Hilary" is Bond until he inadvertently reveals himself trying to make love to one of Blofeld's allergy patients at Piz Gloria. "Sir Hilary Bray" is just James Bond with glasses and a fake, posh and upper-class accent. He didn't have plastic surgery to infiltrate Blofeld's base of operations at Piz Gloria. :)

It's just a case of movie and television characters either seeing other characters as looking the same way no matter which actor plays them or it's the reverse: plot-convenient ignorance to allow one character to advance a certain distance through the plot before being discovered. Kelvin Timeline Spock recognizes Kirk Prime because in his timeline Shatner and Pine are supposed to more or less look the same.
 
Yes. They murdered "baby Spock."

Those selfish cold-hearted bastards. May they all get what they have coming to them.
 
Nope. Prime Spock immediately recognizes both Kelvin Kirk and Kelvin Scotty as the people he knows. Although the actors look different to us, they obviously look the same in both universes.

I don't buy that exactly but I'll agree that something in Kelvin Kirk reminds Spock of the TOS Kirk (Shat) and the others as well! I wouldn't say it was a physical thing as such!
JB
 
Since the Star Trek TV show was a dramatic reenactment of Kirk's logs and supplementary information from the history of the time, we really don't know what Kirk looks like. William Shatner was the actor that portrayed him but then they made this new movie with Chris Pine, but neither of them really look like Kirk anymore than George C Scott looks like George S Patton.

Also, there was no baby Spock.
 
Last edited:
A much more confusing situation would be, say, when James Bond in the disguise of Sir Hilary Bray from the London College of Arms visits Ernst Stavro Blofeld in OHMSS, with Bond knowing it's Blofeld (duh, bald head and sinister disposition in addition to the white cat running around) but Blofeld seemingly not knowing that "Sir Hilary" is Bond until he inadvertently reveals himself trying to make love to one of Blofeld's allergy patients at Piz Gloria. "Sir Hilary Bray" is just James Bond with glasses and a fake, posh and upper-class accent. He didn't have plastic surgery to infiltrate Blofeld's base of operations at Piz Gloria. :)
Yes, that was a case where the fact that both characters were recast actually disguised a major plot hole in the film. If Connery had stayed in the role of Bond, I'm sure they would've had to address that in some other way.

The makers of OHMSS actually considered saying that Bond had had plastic surgery to change his appearance at one point, but they decided against it. It was probably a good decision not to call any more attention to the casting change than necessary.
I don't buy that exactly but I'll agree that something in Kelvin Kirk reminds Spock of the TOS Kirk (Shat) and the others as well! I wouldn't say it was a physical thing as such!
:wtf: ...But the movie explicitly shows us that Spock physically recognizes them both. He identifies both Kirk and Scotty by name a second or two after seeing them. Why would you discount a simple, clean explanation like that in favor of something more convoluted like "Spock saw something that reminded him of the TOS Kirk and Scotty, but it wasn't their physical appearance"? I get that you don't like the Kelvin movies, but it's strange to outright reject what the movie plainly shows us. I just don't see any advantage to that.
 
If Spock can sense dying Vulcans he doesn't necessarily know well from lightyears away, surely he can recognize Kirk and Scotty on a telepathic level two feet away in seconds after serving with them for so long.
 
Yes, that was a case where the fact that both characters were recast actually disguised a major plot hole in the film. If Connery had stayed in the role of Bond, I'm sure they would've had to address that in some other way.

The makers of OHMSS actually considered saying that Bond had had plastic surgery to change his appearance at one point, but they decided against it. It was probably a good decision not to call any more attention to the casting change than necessary.

:wtf: ...But the movie explicitly shows us that Spock physically recognizes them both. He identifies both Kirk and Scotty by name a second or two after seeing them. Why would you discount a simple, clean explanation like that in favor of something more convoluted like "Spock saw something that reminded him of the TOS Kirk and Scotty, but it wasn't their physical appearance"? I get that you don't like the Kelvin movies, but it's strange to outright reject what the movie plainly shows us. I just don't see any advantage to that.

I wouldn't say that I don't like the Kelvin movies to be honest! In fact I did like the first one, wasn't actually blown away by the second and haven't seen the third yet! All I said was that Spock recognized Kirk in the ice caves but to us he looks nothing like the Shat! Don't misinterpret what I was trying to put across please!
JB
 
All I said was that Spock recognized Kirk in the ice caves but to us he looks nothing like the Shat! Don't misinterpret what I was trying to put across please!
My apologies. I'd seen several other posts from you where you expressed a dislike for them, so I thought I was representing your POV accurately.
 
To be fair the only lead in the Kelvin Timeline films who looks a lot like his Prime Timeline counterpart is Karl Urban and even a lot of that is helped by his vocalization and delivery of lines. He sounds and acts so much like DeForest Kelley that if you kinda squint he looks a bit like 1960s De Kelley.
 
Well I remember seeing and saying that Quinto could play a younger Spock way back in his Heroes days!
JB
 
"Sir Hilary Bray" is just James Bond with glasses and a fake, posh and upper-class accent. He didn't have plastic surgery to infiltrate Blofeld's base of operations at Piz Gloria. :)

Why would he need that? He's not the James Bond Blofeld knows - by his very own words, he's the new guy, born with that new face.

Really, nobody ever identifies James Bond by his "old" looks, or even by his "present" ones, without checking against his or her secret sources of intel. Naturally, this is because they cannot know which guy MI6 recruited as its newest 007. Requirements aren't that strict, after all - you don't even have to learn a proper Scotch accent, as long as you can memorize the backstory about the tough childhood, the dead wife and, well, the Scotch.

I wonder if MI6 picked that up from the CIA after observing their Felix Leiter shtick, or vice versa?

Timo Saloniemi
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top