Did the Enterprise-D not live up to its reputation?

[Blueicus]

I suspect that the Borg don't generally place too much emphasis on a strong outer hull or structural integrity due to their reliance on shields and a distributed design of the ship. Remember that the E-D managed to do some pretty significant damage to the cube with a few phaser blasts on their first encounter before the Borg adapted.

Starfleet probably dedicates more effort into keeping the crew alive by making the outer hull stronger which served them better in the encounter with 8472.

 

[Saquist]

I suspect that the Borg don't generally place too much emphasis on a strong outer hull or structural integrity due to their reliance on shields and a distributed design of the ship. Remember that the E-D managed to do some pretty significant damage to the cube with a few phaser blasts on their first encounter before the Borg adapted.

Starfleet probably dedicates more effort into keeping the crew alive by making the outer hull stronger which served them better in the encounter with 8472.

...they only scratched the surface as Wes says in BoBW and it was true... they destroyed less than 1% of the volume of the cube as my CAD Models showed.

The difference in Q Who and Best of Both worlds is that the first encounters were Nadion rich particle beams but then in BoBW the beams were more high energy in the upper EM band...higher frequencies and thus did less actual structural damage just to get a shot through.

Otherwise the Cube it's self is a pretty Dense vessel.
The 5 meter Scout ship weighed 2.5 million Metric Tonnes. That's more than twice that of Voyagers 700,000 Tonnes They are also constructed of a substance 21 times harder than diamond.

 

[RAMA]

The Dominion only defeated a Galaxy class starship by a suicide mission in their first appearance!!
RAMA

Actually it looked like the Dominion were holding their own against the Odyssey no doubt becuase they had more manuverable ships that could shoot through Federation sheilds at that time.

To me it looked more like they were playing with the Odyssey. Right after their first strike she lost her port nacelle and reported damage and causalities on multiple decks.

Just cause it was a cool fight.

So once the Galaxies tweaked the chields and were up-armed, they appeared to be more than a match even for Dominion cruisers...and battleships..some of the most imposing ships I've seen in SF!

 

[Saquist]

No other Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur Valiant and Odyssey.

 

[RAMA]

No other Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur Valiant and Odyssey.

in DS9????

A Galaxy firing in the Battle of Cardassia

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Galaxy_class_firing_phasers.jpg

 

[RAMA]

Problem is your "self evidence" is not accepted by 100% of the people, and is an opinion.
RAMA

Same as yours.

Exactly what I said...but in so being, you can't claim your view as a given, and its clearly not.

 

[Warped9]

I related what I saw, what I experienced as well the feedback I got from fans of different stripes in conversations afterward. I had no reason not to suspect that what I was seeing in fan reaction was a microcosm of what was happening broadly.

There's also the fact that TOS had entrenched itself in the public consciousness long before TNG came along, and by the time of GEN I don't think Trek as a whole was viewed the same and neither was TNG seen quite like TOS had been. I'm not saying TNG didn't have its passionate devoted followers, but that circumstances had changed and that wrecking the E-D didn't have the same emotional impact on a lot of movie goers as did destroying the original Enterprise.

The TOS Enterprise (and in extent the TMP refit) had deliberately been portrayed almost as a character in itself. It wasn't just an accidental byproduct. They never made that deliberate effort with the TNG E. And so except for a (relative) handful of fans the destruction of the TNG E just didn't come across the same way.

And the E-A (for me) never replaced the original ship. Something had changed. I always saw the E-A as an impostor coinciding with the films themselves going downhill in general. When we saw the crap getting kicked out of it in TUC I felt next to nothing. But at least I didn't cheer.

 

[zar]

Problem is your "self evidence" is not accepted by 100% of the people, and is an opinion.
RAMA

Same as yours.

Exactly what I said...but in so being, you can't claim your view as a given, and its clearly not.

I believe Warped9 (in this post) was saying that it was self-evident that his view was an opinion, not that it was self-evidently true.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Everyone's post is essentially self-evident as an opinion.

 

[Saquist]

No other Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur Valiant and Odyssey.

in DS9????

A Galaxy firing in the Battle of Cardassia

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Galaxy_class_firing_phasers.jpg

Again...no oether Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur and Valiant and Odyssey in DS9. We see nothing at the end of that phaser beam.

 

[zar]

There's also the fact that TOS had entrenched itself in the public consciousness long before TNG came along, and by the time of GEN I don't think Trek as a whole was viewed the same and neither was TNG seen quite like TOS had been. I'm not saying TNG didn't have its passionate devoted followers, but that circumstances had changed and that wrecking the E-D didn't have the same emotional impact on a lot of movie goers as did destroying the original Enterprise.

The destruction scenes themselves had at least as much effect on the audience's reactions as the ships' histories. The scene in Generations was about the safety of the people on the ship and the crash was done as an action sequence. In TSFS everyone was already safely off the ship and just watching helplessly, accompanied by sad music.

 

[RAMA]

No other Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur Valiant and Odyssey.

in DS9????

A Galaxy firing in the Battle of Cardassia

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Galaxy_class_firing_phasers.jpg

Again...no oether Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur and Valiant and Odyssey in DS9. We see nothing at the end of that phaser beam.

Yes, so we are to assume the number of Galaxies shown in DS9 never fired on the enemy? Apparently that ship in the pic is firing at ghosts...

The caption should read: Galaxy class ship in battle of Cardassia fires at at no one in particular, possibly pakleds..

 

[RAMA]

^^ Everyone's post is essentially self-evident as an opinion.

So my assumption that you meant your personal conclusion was self-evident rather than your opinion itself was correct..

 

[BillJ]

I think the Galaxy class did quite nicely on screen.

 

[Saquist]

in DS9????

A Galaxy firing in the Battle of Cardassia

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Galaxy_class_firing_phasers.jpg

Again...no oether Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur and Valiant and Odyssey in DS9. We see nothing at the end of that phaser beam.

Yes, so we are to assume the number of Galaxies shown in DS9 never fired on the enemy? Apparently that ship in the pic is firing at ghosts...

The caption should read: Galaxy class ship in battle of Cardassia fires at at no one in particular, possibly pakleds..

Exactly because I believe they did that on purpose.
I think it's the same thing as why didn't put the Enterprise in DS9's war. They didn't want to show any other ship dominating dominion ships except the Defiant.

 

[YARN]

And the E-A (for me) never replaced the original ship. Something had changed. I always saw the E-A as an impostor coinciding with the films themselves going downhill in general. When we saw the crap getting kicked out of it in TUC I felt next to nothing. But at least I didn't cheer.

I feel the same way.

And to have killed the old girl in such a terrible movie. Star Trek III? Seriously? We destroy the Enterprise to kill off a hand full of glam rockers?

At least they did not put them in the Excelsior at the end of The Voyage Home.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Pfft, at least its not as bad as Generations. The E-D gets killed off because Riker didn't just pound the Klinks with his entire arsenal.

"Worf, what do you know about that old Klingon ship? Any weaknesses?"

"Yes. They are much smaller and much weaker than us. We just have to shoot them."

"No, that won't work. They're just too darn smart."

 

[Warped9]

In both films the ships were lost to no good reason. At least in TSFS it is Kirk that dictates her fate rather than plain stupidity.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Pfft, at least its not as bad as Generations. The E-D gets killed off because Riker didn't just pound the Klinks with his entire arsenal.

"Worf, what do you know about that old Klingon ship? Any weaknesses?"

"Yes. They are much smaller and much weaker than us. We just have to shoot them."

"No, that won't work. They're just too darn smart."

I've kinda always felt like that about it too.

 

[Vanyel]

Again...no oether Federation ship fires on a Dominion ship after Centaur and Valiant and Odyssey in DS9. We see nothing at the end of that phaser beam.

Yes, so we are to assume the number of Galaxies shown in DS9 never fired on the enemy? Apparently that ship in the pic is firing at ghosts...

The caption should read: Galaxy class ship in battle of Cardassia fires at at no one in particular, possibly pakleds..

Exactly because I believe they did that on purpose.
I think it's the same thing as why didn't put the Enterprise in DS9's war. They didn't want to show any other ship dominating dominion ships except the Defiant.

In the background, you can see a Galaxy (at about 2:28) firing at what looks to be a Dominion ship.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XwQKWUkrLg[/yt]