Did Star Wars really start as episode 4?
- Thread starter Morpheus 02
- Start date
Yeah, it would make for a very 'definitive' type of anniversary box set
Although, as fan preservations have added many of the various audio tracks from the array of releases down the years as options to listen to, (and include more subtitles for multiple languages than you shake a stick at), then Lucasfilm should be able to match or surpass that.
Very much so. In fact, fan preservations already offer the experience of watching the theatrical cuts as they were released back in the day - including stereo/mono 35mm/70mm and other differences. And are still striving to add more and improve...
Hardly 'a fool's errand' as some would incorrectly claim.
Plus, we also no longer have to put up with the errors that George introduced in the 1997 Special Editions, and for some reason hasn't yet corrected (in any of his 2004SE, 2011SE or 2019SE releases)...
^ "Never forget that the Death Star has been in clear site of Yavin IV from the beginning of the battle since 1997 and this is how the Special Edition should have ended.":-
Disney+ Should Offer the Star Wars Original Cuts—All of Them - article at Wired (scroll down to the ‘The Game Breaker’ section. A free backup to the Wired article: https://archive.is/OPb0c).
What We Want And How To Make It - a sequel piece by article author to the above Wired article.
Oh I definitely think so. I'm only a casual Star Wars fan, but even I know the fans have been lamenting the lack of a theatrical release in higher than DVD quality. If they were to put them on a 4K release, I think they'd make a pretty penny, even if just from the diehards (who actually have 4K players).
I agree
Even Lucasfilm themselves acknowledged such demand in the past...
^ “the biggest question we’ve ever gotten from Star Wars fans is, ‘When are you going to release the originals?’”
the “overwhelming demand” for the unaltered theatrical version.
the "long awaited release of original theatrical incarnations of the classic Star Wars trilogy.”
“over the years a truly countless number of fans have told us they would love to see and own the original version that they remember experiencing in the theatres.”
That demand, albeit from 2006, is still there. Few would likely not want such a release. Possibly even more fans want such a release now... as they would like to see and experience the original award-winning, pioneering and ground-breaking cuts from 'back in the day', to see them as their parents or grandparents saw them (I'm going to sit in sit back down in my rocking chair in just a sec
). Also Movie completionists, film buffs in general, fans of physical media, would all like to have the option to own and experience such a release. Not forgetting those that saw the 1997SE on the big screen and grew up with that particular cut - and has its own importance in Star Wars history - a version that has never had an official HD release.The recent 40th anniversary re-releases of the Original Trilogy films in theatres (albeit the 2011/2019SE being the actual cuts shown) have been a success, along with the 25th anniversary of TPM too.
Plus, recent physical media releases of Star Wars content has sold very well (despite some eye watering prices), including the 27-disc Skywalker Saga 4K/UHD/blu-ray box set (already on it's 3rd pressing, IIRC?) and such content already being available on Disney+.
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What people say and what they actually spend money on are two different things.
Indeed. Yet the only time there was a release of the OOT on DVD ... despite Lucasfilm stating at the time of release they'd only be available for 4 months in 2006, and were a 'Limited Edition', they did sell well, so much that they were still being pressed and available to buy in store shelves until shortly before the blu ray release in 2011.
It appears they also sold well in the years since on the secondary markets - especially in comparison to the 2004 SE DVDs and 2011 SE blu ray prices - despite the known poor image quality issues of the 2006 release.
So whether a physical media release, or Disney+ subscription, or both... it appears fans would pay for such a release... (to say nothing of the impressive numbers of downloads and interest in the fan preservations such as Harmy's Despecialized and the 4K77/80/83 releases over the years). An official release - easy to get and watch (in comparison to an average Joe being aware of the fan preservations and then downloading a torrent / usenet / living a pirate's life etc
) - in 4K/UHD to buy/subscribe to once more? Yeah, a significant percentage of fans and other interested parties would likely be up for that.
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I'll believe when I see people actually putting down money and not a minute before.
I agree
^ “the biggest question we’ve ever gotten from Star Wars fans is, ‘When are you going to release the originals?’”
the “overwhelming demand” for the unaltered theatrical version.
the "long awaited release of original theatrical incarnations of the classic Star Wars trilogy.”
“over the years a truly countless number of fans have told us they would love to see and own the original version that they remember experiencing in the theatres.”
That demand, albeit from 2006, is still there. Few would likely not want such a release. Possibly even more fans want such a release now... as they would like to see and experience the original award-winning, pioneering and ground-breaking cuts from 'back in the day', to see them as their parents or grandparents saw them (I'm going to sit in sit back down in my rocking chair in just a sec
Plus, recent physical media releases of Star Wars content has sold very well (despite some eye watering prices), and such content already being available on Disney+.
I own that release, they went and deliberately sabotaged the presentation by making it non-anamorphic widescreen. So now, If I try to watch it, it has black bars on all 4 sides.
I don't think people realise just how complex and costly it would be to remaster *any* version of the movie up to modern standards. There's no folder of master file scans of the various pre-'97 cuts just sat there waiting for someone click the "export to 4K" button. It would mean going back to the original negative scans *again*, re-editing it all, *again*, digitally re-compositing most if not all of the original effects elements *again*, and so on and so forth. The alternative is what they already did, which was put out an encode of the old laserdisc masters, and people whinged.
Remastering is a long, expensive process, and with home video sales at an all time low, there's very little incentive to invest anywhere near the time and resources required, especially when the vast majority of the audience are just fine with the latest versions as they are. Indeed a whole generation doesn't know any different, and most would balk at some of the crude VFX shots that were entirely replaced.
People that want that very specific (and arbitrary) experience, are a niche within a niche, within a niche. Not likely to amount to enough sales to justify it.
Remastering is a long, expensive process, and with home video sales at an all time low, there's very little incentive to invest anywhere near the time and resources required, especially when the vast majority of the audience are just fine with the latest versions as they are. Indeed a whole generation doesn't know any different, and most would balk at some of the crude VFX shots that were entirely replaced.
People that want that very specific (and arbitrary) experience, are a niche within a niche, within a niche. Not likely to amount to enough sales to justify it.
No. No, there is just so much wrong there... I just don't know where to begin...
A few articles from people who actually know what they are talking about:-
http://fd.noneinc.com/savestarwarscom/savestarwars.info/filmpreservation.html
http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html
http://fd.noneinc.com/savestarwarscom/savestarwars.info/faq.html#1 (FAQ)
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2020/08/21/what-we-want
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2021/02/27/the-lost-art-of-star-wars/
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2019/11/26/list-of-academy-awards-for-the-original-trilogy/
FWIW, the last quote we were given from a highly revered professional restoration company to do complete preservation of the original cuts of the OT (from theatrical prints) was in the ballpark of $90,000-120,000 (US) - pre-Covid, so that was around 2019. TN1 managed to complete their preservation release of the OT from theatrical prints for around $16000-17,000 (US), with a lot of unpaid long hard graft completing the process, frame by frame.
One of the professional alternatives in preserving the original cuts (as from the 2nd article listed above in the 'Back To The Future' section) from 2009, gives a price of under one million dollars (US) - so even when adjusted accordingly for inflation etc the cost is certainly not prohibitive, or even 'costly'.
And there are several other alternative options - other than returning to the original negatives, too.
On a slightly different tangent... the quality of Lucasfilm's official releases have left much to be desired all across the Special Edition board; whether for the 1997 SE, 2004 SE DVDs, 2011SE blu rays, and even the 2019SE 'Maclunkey' cuts. When fan preservations surpass the quality of the official releases, - given the lower quality sources and resources available to fans in comparison to Lucasfilm (and their specialist subcontractors) - it is high time for them to put a little more effort and also some 'quality control' into their releases...
Just a small selection of images to highlight some of the issues...
^ ignore the red circle - it is difference in the colour grading that is so poor and nowhere near close to the OC.
^ 2004 SE on DVD.
^ 2006 GOUT DVD (and no... the original cuts 'did not - and do not - look like that
)
^ 2011 SE blu ray. A fan preservation using 3rd/4th generation theatrical screen print should not be bettering the official release - yet here we are...
^ 2019 SE.
"No sharpening was done. It was to show how much detail has been scrubbed from the 2020 blu-ray, which is the image on the left, compared to the detail in the 2011 Blu-Rays, which is the image on the right. The panels on the droid in the 2020 blu-rays have been almost scrubbed away including the weathering." - adywan.
Harmy also has 6/7 youtube shorts comparison videos - for the official 2019SE on 4K/UHD vs his Despecialized Editions and the 4K77/80/83 fan preservations, here -https://www.youtube.com/@HarmyDespecialized/shorts
edited to include this example from Harmy's youtube channel...
A decent example of the editing changes made to the original cuts (It is far from just VFX, dialogue, or sound changes):-
Maybe next time Lucasfilm puts out an official release they will put a little more effort and some 'quality control' into it - and also ensure the theatrical and various SE cuts of the films are also made available - to give people the choice and option to watch and experience whichever version they wish to see that was previously released to the public. In the best image and sound quality possible (without needless image scrubbing, the loss of detail, bizarre blue tints and colouring, crushed blacks etc). Whether on physical media or on Disney+, or both. Maybe even a prior theatrical release if money was the supposed issue some mistakenly claim it to be - given the relative success of the '40th' anniversary OT showings and also the '25th' of TPM, it should generate interest/publicity and also some cash).
There really are no excuses why there can't be a high quality preservation for some of the most iconic, pioneering. landmark, and award-winning films in movie history. The much-loved original three films which underpin and kickstarted all of the galaxy far far away....
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I honestly have no desire to go back and watch the "original" version again. if it were made available on Disney plus or something I might give it a watch through once, just out of curiosity's sake, but I would never spend money to own it. It just isn't that big of a deal to me.
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I was completely fine with the various editions for a long time, my preferred edition is the first Special Edition and I find I don't like the unaltered movies anywhere near as much because of stuff like the left out Biggs scene and Bespin looking a lot worse. Still, I was never really bothered by most later changes things like Force Ghost Hayden Christensen or updating Boba fett's voice or Obi Wan's Krayt Dragon call.
But then the Blu Rays happened, and I will never accept what they did to Return of the Jedi. Vader yelling "Nooooooooooo" as he turns on Palpatine might "echo" Episode 3, and Lucas was obsessed with things "repeating" apparently, but it absolutely ruins one of the best scenes in the original trilogy.
I still bought the OT on Blu Ray, but having paid for them I don't feel even remotely guilty of making my go to OT Version a fan edit (it is basically the "despecialized" cut but made for people who actually liked the original special editions, it basically keeps all of the first special edition changes but cuts out the Jabba scene in Episode 4, keeps the original ROTJ force ghost scene, etc).
My general belief is that every cut should be available legally for those who want them, from an artistic preservation perspective if nothing else. Avatar released a DVD/Blu Ray with like five different cuts, so have other movies. There is no reason Disney couldn't make money hand over fist by doing the same with Star Wars.
But then the Blu Rays happened, and I will never accept what they did to Return of the Jedi. Vader yelling "Nooooooooooo" as he turns on Palpatine might "echo" Episode 3, and Lucas was obsessed with things "repeating" apparently, but it absolutely ruins one of the best scenes in the original trilogy.
I still bought the OT on Blu Ray, but having paid for them I don't feel even remotely guilty of making my go to OT Version a fan edit (it is basically the "despecialized" cut but made for people who actually liked the original special editions, it basically keeps all of the first special edition changes but cuts out the Jabba scene in Episode 4, keeps the original ROTJ force ghost scene, etc).
My general belief is that every cut should be available legally for those who want them, from an artistic preservation perspective if nothing else. Avatar released a DVD/Blu Ray with like five different cuts, so have other movies. There is no reason Disney couldn't make money hand over fist by doing the same with Star Wars.
Pretty much. I may or may not have a fan made digital copy of some pre-'97 cuts that I keep for reference, but reference is all it is. Very little desire to sit through even one of them.
If we get original cuts I still want the matte lines and vfx fudges fixed.
And to be frank, I want Star Wars (it's not EpIV or "A New Hope") to have an interval at just over an hour in when Obi Wan says to Luke "That's good - you have taken your first steps into a larger world." where the screen curtains close and a woman in a pink nylon uniform comes out with a tray of icecreams to sell.
And to be frank, I want Star Wars (it's not EpIV or "A New Hope") to have an interval at just over an hour in when Obi Wan says to Luke "That's good - you have taken your first steps into a larger world." where the screen curtains close and a woman in a pink nylon uniform comes out with a tray of icecreams to sell.
I think you can pay for that kind of service these days in the comfort of your own home (or hire out a cinema for it too)
Quinton cinema is available with old-skool equipment; they may even have the pink nylon uniforms too - and ice creams from that era in storage, though may want to give those a miss !
Or else what?
Sure there are excuses. They don't want to.
There is no obligation to them for making these releases any other way. Lucas has been on record (and contradicting sometimes but it's his project) that he regards the theatericals unfinished, so he had expressed less interest in rereleasing them. Thus far, LFL has respected that to a degree.
If fans want to update it go for it. But no obligation falls on LFL at this time.
Yup.
I still have VHS copies as well as DVDs. I'm good.
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