On the bright side, at least this all happened at a time when there weren't 24-hour news and gossip channels and websites to play up the animosity between the two actors and blow it way out of proportion.
Did Shatner and Doohan ever patch things up?
- Thread starter Mr. Laser Beam
- Start date
Doohan definitely carried a grudge, but it was really the fans that put it there. As Star Trek became a phenomenon during the 70s and the convention circuit was born, Doohan had 30 years of fans blowing smoke up his ass, til it was easy to convince himself that he and Shatner were co-stars rather than that he was the show's excitable repairman. He started out jealous (I remember a '70s interview in which he admitted he'd rather play the Captain), and the fans fuelled it. Shatner's personality certainly didn't help the situation.
I want to make clear that I once shared a drink with Doohan and found him to be a lovely and charming man. I believe he was quite a fine fellow, a talented actor and, of course, a war hero. But this was a blind spot that really brought out his worst.
That, really, was my point too... but made a bit more eloquently than I'd put it, I think.
I WANTED to like, and approve, of Doohan. As I said, I practically worshipped the character of Scotty (as it is, as an adult I'm about 50% Scotty, 50% Kirk in my own behavior, personality, and skills... though I'll NEVER get chicks like Kirk did, sadly!
)I was born the year that Trek came out. I literally grew up on it. We moved and I lost all my social connections, and it became a constant in my life when I didn't have any. Really... I'm probably the man I am today as much due to Trek as due to my mom and dad. (Scary, huh?)
So it's not something TOTALLY trivial that I lost my respect for Doohan. It took some doing on his part to have this result on me.
I had the opportunity to sit next to Shatner on a plane once... got the upgrade to 1st-class and had the window seat next to his aisle seat. I can only speak from my own experience, and my exposure to him was limited (I tend to respect the privacy of others and, other than telling him I appreciated his work, didn't talk "shop" at all). But he was, frankly, a really NICE guy from what little I was able to see... polite and considerate of a total stranger like me, and just really friendly to boot.
My experience is purely anecdotal and maybe it was just one of the rare times he wasn't an ass... but the experience left me with a pretty positive impression of the guy.
Maybe had I sat next to Takei, I'd have same impression... I don't know. My experience with him, outside of his on-screen portrayals, is limited to his autobiography, his appearances on Howard Stern, and his really obnoxious bit at the Shatner roast. But those bits have been enough to make him fall, pretty damned far, in my eyes.
And having heard Doohan's nastiness towards Shatner on more than one occasion, well... the same applies. But in his case, I feel more pity than revulsion.
I'll never forget the last time I saw the guy (on Conan O'Brien) and how it was obvious that he was losing his faculties. It damned near brought a tear to my eye. I just feel sadness over the fact that he let his jealousy tear him down like he ended up doing.
It's like I've always said...Shatner can be an incredible dick and egotistical bastard. He's pretty much always been that way. But for Doohan to let it gnaw and pick at him like a disease or virus for more than three decades was just sad and inexcusable. Shatner was a prick to just about everyone on the TOS and movie sets, even the few who were his good friends like Nimoy and De Kelley. But it should never have gotten to Doohan like it did.
I believe it. The poor man gets inundated by people in silly costumes everywhere he goes. He meant every word he said in the "get a life" sketch -- and I agree with him. The fact that you were just sitting there like a normal human being and respecting his privacy (as opposed to total strangers calling him "Bill" and knowing more about his life than he does) provoked a normal, human response.
Shatner can be so unpredictable at times. Sometimes he's a horse's ass and wallowing in his own ego...other times he's genuinely compassionate and reaches out to others as their equal. I hope it was the latter with Doohan because Jimmy---as much as I love him---wouldn't have done the same.
Stanley Kubrick got labeled as "reclusive" for exactly the same reason. He refused to talk to media or do media events.
On the other hand, by all accounts he was in contact with people (and often had long conversations) in the film industry on a daily basis. So you are very right - it really relates to traditional media.
And up until the 1990s and his Academy award for the theme music to PHILADELPHIA it was rare to get Bruce Springsteen to make TV appearances and give interviews.
Interesting... so, the Captain... the Vulcan Science Officer... and the Chief Engineer.... Hmmmm, sounds like...
Archer, T'Pol and Tucker, doesn't it? And the Archer-Tucker relationship made sense, a long tenure of working together on the vessel and its adjacent project.
I hope someday we get a canonical explanation of McCoy and Kirk having such a strong connection. (That movie, perhaps... you know the one.)
Yeah, the Trip-Archer-T'Pol troika on ENTERPRISE was deliberately set up by B&B to closely approximate the McCoy-Kirk-Spock bond on TOS and in their movies, only it never worked out as successfully.
Shatner was quite egotistical on the TOS set, according to reports from the other actors and filming staff. Sure, he kind of had a right to be given his "leading star" role. But he exploited it to the fullest and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. From what I learned, it doesn't appear that he had any personal grudges against anyone. He was just naturally insensitive to the needs of others around him. And at that time, you have to remember that outside the scope of Nimoy and Kelly, the other actors were unknowns that had two-bit parts in the episodes most of the time. So, in his typical way Shatner didn't give them proper respect. And given their limited roles, the other actors had little to say about it. So then, many years later, there's a revival and they start working together again making movies. Many of them moved on about the past, venting what little disgust they had for Shatner in their memoirs. Shatner treated them with much more respect the second time around. But apparently Doohan wouldn't let it go. And so he never really embraced Shatner, keeping a grudge that he'd let out of the bag now and then. This didn't help for any kind of reconciliation with Shatner. It would take many years later for Doohan to finally bury the hatchet. I think it was really nice for Shatner to finally embrace him. I'm glad that it happened before Doohan passed on.
Of all the people in the cast, I'd say Nimoy is the most honorable. After TOS, he tried to shun the series, fearing his association was marring his ability to get other roles. And he was right--that "Spock" branding didn't help him much. But then, Nimoy didn't have an acting range (looks and personality) that made him marketable enough to get other serious roles. Thankfully, Star Trek was good to him, extending a continuing role that would make him a legend. And Nimoy recognized what Star Trek had done for him, but most of all that it was the fans that fueled the whole phenomenon. He has always remained grateful to the audience and expresses it frequently. Shatner really tried to ditch his Star Trek roots after TOS, though. He even declared that he never watched the show ("I don't watch serial television" he was once quoted). But obviously his attempts at other acting venues (like "TJ Hooker") didn't yield much career progress because of his limited acting talent. And the Star Trek movies were the only venue that allowed Shatner to be the center of attention in a production. Nothing else. Funny how it took Boston Legal to bring about an egotistical character that would fit Shatner perfectly (he acquired some serious comedic flair over the years too) and make him a big star once more. It's obvious now that Shatner appreciates the legacy of Star Trek--how could he not, as this is the show that has made him a legend.
Anyway, getting back to Doohan... Y'know, he was a very talented actor. The way he pulled off Scotty... he was quite a wizard with accents. It was the writers who limited him--he never really had a lot to say, except for a few episodes that gave him the spotlight. Compared to Shatner's overacting, I might even venture to say that Doohan was more talented. But as someone else pointed out, he either had a streak of bad luck in finding roles or didn't have a good manager (or perhaps a little of both). It's just too bad that Doohan was so damned stubborn and jealous, to let his feelings about Shatner drag on for so long. In the end, I'm very sad he is no longer with us. I wish that Master Replicas would have produced a TOS prop with his signature before he became too feeble to sign anything (like another round of the TOS phaser!). But Doohan lives on in those classic episodes... it's also fantastic that we have his one-time return in ST-TNG; that was one of the best episodes of that series.
Best wishes to you Jimmy...
Of all the people in the cast, I'd say Nimoy is the most honorable. After TOS, he tried to shun the series, fearing his association was marring his ability to get other roles. And he was right--that "Spock" branding didn't help him much. But then, Nimoy didn't have an acting range (looks and personality) that made him marketable enough to get other serious roles. Thankfully, Star Trek was good to him, extending a continuing role that would make him a legend. And Nimoy recognized what Star Trek had done for him, but most of all that it was the fans that fueled the whole phenomenon. He has always remained grateful to the audience and expresses it frequently. Shatner really tried to ditch his Star Trek roots after TOS, though. He even declared that he never watched the show ("I don't watch serial television" he was once quoted). But obviously his attempts at other acting venues (like "TJ Hooker") didn't yield much career progress because of his limited acting talent. And the Star Trek movies were the only venue that allowed Shatner to be the center of attention in a production. Nothing else. Funny how it took Boston Legal to bring about an egotistical character that would fit Shatner perfectly (he acquired some serious comedic flair over the years too) and make him a big star once more. It's obvious now that Shatner appreciates the legacy of Star Trek--how could he not, as this is the show that has made him a legend.
Anyway, getting back to Doohan... Y'know, he was a very talented actor. The way he pulled off Scotty... he was quite a wizard with accents. It was the writers who limited him--he never really had a lot to say, except for a few episodes that gave him the spotlight. Compared to Shatner's overacting, I might even venture to say that Doohan was more talented. But as someone else pointed out, he either had a streak of bad luck in finding roles or didn't have a good manager (or perhaps a little of both). It's just too bad that Doohan was so damned stubborn and jealous, to let his feelings about Shatner drag on for so long. In the end, I'm very sad he is no longer with us. I wish that Master Replicas would have produced a TOS prop with his signature before he became too feeble to sign anything (like another round of the TOS phaser!). But Doohan lives on in those classic episodes... it's also fantastic that we have his one-time return in ST-TNG; that was one of the best episodes of that series.
Best wishes to you Jimmy...
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