Did other ships have counselors, too?

[USS Triumphant]

I've mentioned this before, I know, but the Counselor character was originally envisioned as more of a political officer, there to advise on adherence to Starfleet and Federation Council policy - which is why she had a position on the bridge. But they decided that was a little too Der Kommissar , and altered the role. Which worked out well enough, obviously - the show is beloved by millions - but I do wish they had put a little more thought into developing the character's *new* role. Nothing dramatically different from what we got, but maybe some of Troi's insights could have come more from her expert skill and intense study of psychology and xenopsychology, and a little less from a special power she had by circumstance of birth? A somewhat more confident and competent Troi from the get-go, rather than having to wait until "Face of the Enemy" and then further for Jellico to make her wear a uniform for that Troi to show up.

Edit to address the actual OP question (forehead - smack): Part of my point was going to be that given the original nature of the role, yes, I believe every ship above a certain size/power would have such an officer.

 

[Timo]

One wonders whether Troi being an empath actually negatively affected her performance as a counselor. She might have been expected to do only what she did in "The Loss" and no more, but her special abilities gave her extra work that consumed her time for relatively little gain. It's not that she would have been slacking as the Ship's Telepath - it's that she was asked to fill in for the missing Ship's Telepath in addition to her actual counseling job.

It's too bad that "The Loss" specifically shows her believing otherwise. Then again, she might believe many a thing about her role and skills, while the reality might be much brighter.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[uniderth]

Are you kidding? How is a "SCIENCE advisor" anything but a person who advised people about science?
You wouldn't go to Bill Nye for marriage counseling.

Agreed. But that hasn't prevented him from trying.

 

[juventuz]

Doesn't the Titan have a counselor?

 

[TheAdmiralty]

I think larger ships with longer missions and maybe more of a emphasis on crew comfort (more of that on the Galaxy Class than on any other ship we saw on Star Trek).

I think the original concept of Deanna on the bridge was that she was there due to her empathic abilities, which would be useful in a wide range of contexts. But those were toned down pretty quickly so after a while it was hard to see why she got a big seat next to Picard and Riker.

 

[Cyke101]

"The best counselor I know is a fully charged phaser bank!"

Diplomat. You mean diplomat, Mister Scott. Gimme one sec... *mumbles* Dr. McCoy, please report to the bridge.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Dr. Helen Noel (TOS "Dagger of the Mind") served as a ship's psychiatrist aboard the Enterprise.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I guess the problem with Deanna is that the idea behind the whole "counselor on the bridge" thing was sound but some producers still saw her as "eye candy on the bridge".

Why do you think they started ignoring the empathy stuff when meeting people in space? Was it overpowered? Or did they just not bother thinking of fun ways to include it?
Most of the time I tend to forget she's an empath.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You wouldn't go to Bill Nye for marriage counseling.

But I would watch that on TV.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Most ships have counselors if they are on prolonged deep space missions but they are not considered bridge crew unless they are telepathic or so otherwise possess a skill set to give insight in diplomatic situations.

Most counselors are not also de-facto Diplomacy Officer.

 

[J.T.B.]

I've mentioned this before, I know, but the Counselor character was originally envisioned as more of a political officer, there to advise on adherence to Starfleet and Federation Council policy - which is why she had a position on the bridge. But they decided that was a little too Der Kommissar , and altered the role.

Good god, really? Someone thought it would be a good idea to have a character specifically for policy discussions?

I always figured the empath/telepath stuff was so she could do some of the business Spock used to do. Having her give readings on the bridge was OK but a lot of times it just seemed to be an initial "I sense [feeling]" and then she could just sit out the rest of the scene.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Most ships have counselors if they are on prolonged deep space missions but they are not considered bridge crew unless they are telepathic or so otherwise possess a skill set to give insight in diplomatic situations.

Most counselors are not also de-facto Diplomacy Officer.

Link?

Good god, really? Someone thought it would be a good idea to have a character specifically for policy discussions?

I can't confirm this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were so. I've always believed that the ideas of a shrink on the bridge and of a political officer in the same position rub up against each other.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why do you think they started ignoring the empathy stuff when meeting people in space? Was it overpowered? Or did they just not bother thinking of fun ways to include it?

Mostly because pretty much everything Deanna said as a counselor (at least on the bridge) was glaringly obvious. "I sense hostility, Captain" and all that.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Good god, really? Someone thought it would be a good idea to have a character specifically for policy discussions?

I always figured the empath/telepath stuff was so she could do some of the business Spock used to do. Having her give readings on the bridge was OK but a lot of times it just seemed to be an initial "I sense [feeling]" and then she could just sit out the rest of the scene.

Honestly, I think in some ways I would have liked it better if she *had* been the political officer, in addition to being an empath and the ship's counselor (with a slightly more ominous undertone to that role, too), and not a part of Starfleet proper, but maybe part of something like a Starfleet Internal Affairs, or a deputized representative of the Federation Council, or some such. A source of tension among the command crew could have been good, especially when it came to the rest of the crew deciding to do questionable but necessary things and not being sure if she would find out - and if she did, if she would go along with it or rat them out and end up getting them "rehabilitated". It might explain some things about the lack of crime in the Federation. It would have made the Maquis more sympathetic. It would have lent itself to her suddenly pulling off a performance as a member of the Tal Shiar, since maybe that organization and what she's a part of wouldn't be that dissimilar - which in turn could have been something for her to think about as part of character development (leading to her ultimate betrayal of her command authorities in favor of totally being one of the crew when the fit really hit the shan, of course). They could have tied the decisions that led the Federation this far down the road to a police state in nicely with some of the ideas behind "Conspiracy". And perhaps made the Betazoids part of that, since if you *really* *seriously* think about them, they could potentially be pretty frikkin' horrifying as a species.

And it's pretty hard to argue that the captains from TOS didn't help to bring some sort of babysitter upon themselves, Garth of Izar. Ron Tracey. Even Kirk himself, really, and the captains that came out of his crew like Scotty (sabotaging Excelsior, helping to steal Enterprise) and Sulu (the latter, plus lying about knowing where the Enterprise was in VI) - even if they usually got a wink and a nod because things worked out best when they did their thang, they were still technically out of control, which isn't something a bureaucracy/military (whichever Starfleet and/or the the Federation is, and I won't argue that here) generally has a lot of patience for and definitely isn't behavior they want to encourage in new recruits who may have been inspired by the famous Kirk and crew...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It would have lent itself to her suddenly pulling off a performance as a member of the Tal Shiar

There's a point.

 

[MacLeod]

And it's pretty hard to argue that the captains from TOS didn't help to bring some sort of babysitter upon themselves, Garth of Izar. Ron Tracey. Even Kirk himself, really, and the captains that came out of his crew like Scotty (sabotaging Excelsior, helping to steal Enterprise) and Sulu (the latter, plus lying about knowing where the Enterprise was in VI) - even if they usually got a wink and a nod because things worked out best when they did their thang, they were still technically out of control, which isn't something a bureaucracy/military (whichever Starfleet and/or the the Federation is, and I won't argue that here) generally has a lot of patience for and definitely isn't behavior they want to encourage in new recruits who may have been inspired by the famous Kirk and crew...

Well they did court-martial Kirk for actions he and his crew took post Genesis. Though it basically amounted to giving Kirk what he really wanted the command of a Starship. So could almost be said to be a non punishment. But I guess saving a few billion lives earns you a few brownie points.

 

[USS Triumphant]

BTW: I've long been suspicious that the original idea for Troi might have been adapted for use elsewhere in Trek. Which is kind of a "turnabout is fair play" situation when you consider the relationship between the Decker/Ilia characters and the Riker/Deanna characters.

 

[GabyBee]

Before joining the crew of Deep Space Nine, Ezri Tigan (non-joined) was an Ensign serving as an assistant counselor aboard U.S.S. Destiny, so I think there's not only precedent for there being a counselor on just about every Starfleet vessel, but perhaps even precedent for there being multiple. A ship like an Intrepid-class would probably only have one counselor assigned - Janeway lamented that their mission was originally so short that they didn't have one assigned - while larger starships like a Galaxy-class or Nebula-class might have multiple. Sort of like how U.S.S. Enterpried NCC-1701-D had multiple doctors; Beverly Crusher was just the CMO.

 

[Push The Button]

Are you kidding? How is a "SCIENCE advisor" anything but a person who advised people about science?
You wouldn't go to Bill Nye for marriage counseling.

Never..besides, Nye is the sort of guy that would sleep with your wife.

 

[SPCTRE]

I sense anger, Captain