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Did Mitchell and Dehner survive?

MAGolding

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Did Gary Mitchell and Dr. Dehner fake their deaths in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" so Kirk would leave them alone on Delta Vega?

Gary discovered that he could make himself "die" and come back to life again:

MITCHELL: You know, everybody, everybody seems worried that I don't have some kind of fever or something. Maybe if we could just change these dials (sends them soaring). Now back to normal, I think.
DEHNER: How did you do that?
MITCHELL: I'm not sure, I, I just thought of making it happen, and it does. It's, hey, er hey watch this, Doc.
(indicators plummet, Mitchell collapses)
DEHNER: Stop it. Stop it! You were dead for almost twenty two seconds. There were no readings at all.

Dr. Dehner saw him do it. Thus she might have thought about what could be done with such a power if she had it.

A minute later:

MITCHELL: That's one of the most passionate love sonnets of the past couple of centuries. How do you feel, Doctor?
DEHNER: What?
MITCHELL: How do you feel?
DEHNER: I just fell. Nothing happened.
MITCHELL No? Are you sure? Are you sure?

Mitchell was clearly suggesting that Dehner might have been affected by the incident and might grow more like him with time. Possibly Mitchell could sense that Dehner was starting to change.

In the briefing room Dehner argued against the suggestion that Mitchell's powers might be dangerous:

DEHNER: No one's been hurt, have they? Don't you understand? A mutated superior man could also be a wonderful thing. The forerunner of a new and better kind of human being.

And maybe that was because people had looked at her with suspicion in the past because of her high esper rating, or maybe because she feared they might lynch Mitchell out of ignorant fear, or maybe because she was attracted to Mitchell, perhaps due to some psychic influence from him. but possibly it might be because Mitchell had made her wonder if she might also be changing, even if more slowly than him.

And if she was wondering if she was starting to change, or could sense that she was changing, she would naturally wonder about when and if she would get the powers that Mitchell had displayed so far, and what she could, should, and would do with such powers.

So if Kirk convinced her to attack Mitchell, she might at the same time decide to use Mitchell's power to simulate death, or revive himself from real death, to fake her own fatal wounding during the fight with Mitchell - if she was not actually killed by Mitchell's attacks.

Or maybe, when Mitchell and Dehner learned that Kirk was tracking them, they planned to fool him with a mock fight and faked deaths. So it is possible that their plan worked and they both survived on Delta Vega, which would not be subjected to a lethal concentration of neutron radiation now that Kirk reported they were dead.

And I wonder if the galactic Mining Co____ would send the next automated ship for the Lithium ore as scheduled or if they were ordered to abandon the mining operation just in case. And I wonder, if Mitchell and Dehner were alive, would they have counted on that ship arriving, or if they they let the Enterprise leave Delta Vega because they thought that they no longer needed starships to travel interstellar space.
 
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Interesting. There's no question that Dehner and Kirk defeated Mitchell, and that the fight music was stupendous, but Mitchell could have faked his death to escape really getting killed.

But we know Dehner died, because Kirk would have either buried her body on Delta Vega, or beamed it up if the ship has the necessary facility to keep a corpse for a few weeks. If she faked her death long enough to be buried on the planet, then we're getting into vampire territory, not so realistic.
 
Either they had become so self aware that they began to no longer feel aggressive towards Kirk and his crew and so let them leave Delta Vega so they could contemplate the universe or they both died during the events of the episode? The latter seems the better explanation because of it's action quotient and better reasoning!
JB
 
It always kind of bugged me that someone so all powerful as Mitchell had become, could be killed with a boulder falling on him.
Surely he could just have swatted said boulder away ?
 
Either they had become so self aware that they began to no longer feel aggressive towards Kirk and his crew and so let them leave Delta Vega so they could contemplate the universe or they both died during the events of the episode? The latter seems the better explanation because of it's action quotient and better reasoning!
JB

That's a good point. What if the rock stunned him? Put him in a coma say, and when he woke up he realized he need no longer do things by brute force. Then even if Kirk did bury Dehner, Mitchell could have brought her back, even some time later.

I wonder if Dehner wouldn't have changed at all even though she was affected but Gary used his powers to make it happen because she was the only one sympathetic to him.

When the phaser hits Gary square in the chest with no effect, I doubt neutron radiation would bother him.




Maybe Gary will post what happened, he still posts here.
 
Interesting. There's no question that Dehner and Kirk defeated Mitchell, and that the fight music was stupendous, but Mitchell could have faked his death to escape really getting killed.

But we know Dehner died, because Kirk would have either buried her body on Delta Vega, or beamed it up if the ship has the necessary facility to keep a corpse for a few weeks. If she faked her death long enough to be buried on the planet, then we're getting into vampire territory, not so realistic.

Besides the two options you mention:

1. Burial of corpse on planet.
2. Beam corpse back to ship to take back to civilization for funeral services.

I can think of a few more:

3. Use phaser rifle to totally vaporize corpse.
4. Beam corpse back to ship for on ship funeral and burial in space.
5. beam corpse back to ship for scientific study involving dissection.
6. Beam corpse back to ship and then beam into space at widest dispersion as in "Wolf in the Fold".
7. Beam yourself back to ship and not do anything with the corpse.

If Dehner was faking death and set to revive after a preset period, number 5 could turn into a horror story for her and/or for those performing the autopsy. That might explain why McCoy replaced Piper as chief surgeon.
 
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It always looked to me like the grave was deeper than the boulder and there would be room in the bottom of the grave below the rock where Gary could survive. It's nice to think he survived, revived her, and they both evolved to the point where they no longer needed to squash puny humans.
 
It always kind of bugged me that someone so all powerful as Mitchell had become, could be killed with a boulder falling on him.
Surely he could just have swatted said boulder away ?

I think that he was probably taken unawares and before he had time to do anything about it was crushed beneath the boulder! :crazy:
JB
 
It always kind of bugged me that someone so all powerful as Mitchell had become, could be killed with a boulder falling on him.
Surely he could just have swatted said boulder away ?
Especially when he took a blast from a phaser rifle without flinching. Had the whole outcropping (or better yet a mountain) landed on him I could see that being the end of him.

As for Dehner, she wasn't as far gone as Mitchell and using her powers was clearly taxing for her. To distract him as much as she did would've taken it's toll, draining her life force in order to do good one last time.
 
Dehner is definitely dead. She was drained by her conflict with Mitchell and I think she also 'allowed' herself to die. Her final words to Kirk indicated that Kirk could not understand what it was like to be a god and she no longer wanted to be part of it and she gave up, or lost the will to live for lack of a better word.

As for Mitchell, I believe he's dead. He may have had 'godlike' powers, but he still was not necessarily omnipotent and all powerful. First he was distracted by his battle with Kirk and caught by surprise. Secondly he was still regaining all his faculties after being temporarily de-godded by Dehner. I do believe having a heavy boulder fall on you would be enough to kill Mitchell, even in his heightened state. He still required a body, he had not yet transcended his existence to a higher plane. He was still a biological lifeform and being crushed would still be deadly.

At least one of the novels, maybe My Brother's Keeper: Enterprise if I recall correctly, did explain that the Enterprise did an extensive sensor scan of the area and confirmed he was quite dead. But personally I never really had any doubts.
 
Any kids? Do you have a boy named Trelane?
If Trelane were your kid would you claim him?

Dude. The most important thing about starting any new business is location, location, location. Do you get a lot of foot traffic on a planet with an unmanned lithium cracking station?

And it sounds like most of you folks really need to read John Byrne's 2013 sequel story, "Strange New Worlds." :)
There wasn't a lot of traffic at first but word of mouth helped. That and the planet sized billboards that we put up.
 
and that the fight music was stupendous

Yes, it was. Unforgettable.

If she faked her death long enough to be buried on the planet, then we're getting into vampire territory, not so realistic.

Yep.

Too easy
He was Godlike
He should have saw it coming

Ah, but Mitchell lived up to Kirk's analysis: a "god" still suffering from human emotions, such as anger and in the moment he was climbing out of the grave--blood lust/rage. That made him so single-minded that all else--including imminent danger--were not on his mind, making him as vulnerable as anyone else.
 
Wasn't he basically also suicidal towards the end? Why else give Kirk this "moment"?

We don't know if Mitchell had the power to make himself mortal for a moment (the old can-God-make-a-rock-so-big-He-can't-lift-it question, with some concretia here to boot). We do know Dehner had that power, though, so... Perhaps Gary chose to stop his eyes from glowing when the rock fell?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I never though Gary actually simulated death with his powers. I thought he just messed up the sickbay instruments and then flopped down on the bed for added dramatic effect.

(the old can-God-make-a-rock-so-big-He-can't-lift-it question, with some concretia here to boot).

I never realized before now how literal that turned out to be in that episode.
 
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