Did LaForge feel guilty over the destruction of the Ent-D?

[Ablative_Oberth]

Based my observations above on the tech manual. The core and the antimatter pods are separate systems that can be ejected.

And it is a nuclear reaction, matter-antimatter reacts at the nuclear level. It would be far more energetic than a fusion reaction but it is STILL a nuclear reaction.

Lastly I follow fusion research closely, my background is 10 years "nuclear navy" when I got out I picked up a manufacturing position and haven't looked back.


No matter how you slice it, the reaction should STOP by shutting off the matter and antimatter sources. Can't imagine not having some sort of positive shutoff for the fuel supply... nor can I imagine them having enough inventory in the core to cause an explosion with the fuel supply cut off. Makes no sense.

Be nice if Technobabble God Rick could weigh in on this one, friend of mine tells me he visits this BBS every so often.

 

[JarodRussell]

Based my observations above on the tech manual. The core and the antimatter pods are separate systems that can be ejected.

And it is a nuclear reaction, matter-antimatter reacts at the nuclear level. It would be far more energetic than a fusion reaction but it is STILL a nuclear reaction.

Lastly I follow fusion research closely, my background is 10 years "nuclear navy" when I got out I picked up a manufacturing position and haven't looked back.


No matter how you slice it, the reaction should STOP by shutting off the matter and antimatter sources. Can't imagine not having some sort of positive shutoff for the fuel supply... nor can I imagine them having enough inventory in the core to cause an explosion with the fuel supply cut off. Makes no sense.

Be nice if Technobabble God Rick could weigh in on this one, friend of mine tells me he visits this BBS every so often.

Yes, the reaction inside the reactor stops when you stop injecting antimatter. The problem is that the antimatter containment field fails most of the time in Trek. And that means that the antimatter in those storage pods gets in contact with the ship, and kaboom.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

It looked to me like he had his implanted eyes in Nemesis. The radiation effects in Insurrection were only temporary. I believe that was mentioned onscreen.

Well then Picard didn't overreact, because the Federation was about to kill 600 people.

Yeah he did overreact. And also committed numerous violations of direct orders even before he knew what was going on. There should have been court-martial investigating his actions after Insurrection.

Plus... forcing six hundred people to age at their normal rate, horrible.

No, but forcing six hundred people off of a planet THEY OWN without even talking to them about it is wrong and no Journey's End doesn't make a case for them doing it because Ba'ku wasn't a Federation Planet and no, being in Federation space dosen't mean they own it if the race living there hasn't joined.

 

[BillJ]

No, but forcing six hundred people off of a planet THEY OWN without even talking to them about it is wrong and no Journey's End doesn't make a case for them doing it because Ba'ku wasn't a Federation Planet and no, being in Federation space dosen't mean they own it if the race living there hasn't joined.

Think about your statement for a moment...

There are at least six hundred people within a half-mile radius from me. So we're talking about the waste of resources on a planetary scale for six hundred people. People who obviously are unwilling to embrace different ideas per the expulsion of the S'ona (who would seem to have every bit an equal claim to planetary resources as the Ba'ku).

Plus we have no idea what the Federation charter says about who owns claimed and unclaimed worlds within their borders. I would have to imagine any worlds within the Federation sphere would fall under the Federation governing body.

 

[Ablative_Oberth]

Yes, the reaction inside the reactor stops when you stop injecting antimatter. The problem is that the antimatter containment field fails most of the time in Trek. And that means that the antimatter in those storage pods gets in contact with the ship, and kaboom.

You think they'd wire it so the reactor containment field and the pod containment fields weren't on the same branch line.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

No, but forcing six hundred people off of a planet THEY OWN without even talking to them about it is wrong and no Journey's End doesn't make a case for them doing it because Ba'ku wasn't a Federation Planet and no, being in Federation space dosen't mean they own it if the race living there hasn't joined.

Think about your statement for a moment...

There are at least six hundred people within a half-mile radius from me. So we're talking about the waste of resources on a planetary scale for six hundred people. People who obviously are unwilling to embrace different ideas per the expulsion of the S'ona (who would seem to have every bit an equal claim to planetary resources as the Ba'ku).

1) The S'ona were kicked out after trying to take over the planet and taken back at the end of the film.

2) Starfleet DIDN'T ask them about using the planet's rings to benefit others they just decided to mover the Ba'ku off the planet so we don't know how they would have reacted to say setting up a spa or something away from the village possibly on a beach. I mean they tried to fix Data and treated the captured Starfleet officers as guests so their not assholes.

3) Since when does the Prime Directive allow moving people seeing as Picard used it to sit on his ass and do nothing while and inhabited planet lost it's atmosphere?

4) Starfleet really wanted to harvest the rings because they found going to the Briar Patch too inconvenient not because they had to.

Plus we have no idea what the Federation charter says about who owns claimed and unclaimed worlds within their borders. I would have to imagine any worlds within the Federation sphere would fall under the Federation governing body.

1) The Ba'ku claim predates the federation by 100 years.

2) That's how the Klingons and Romulans and Terran Empire do things not the feds.

3) Concidering how hard Dougherty was tring to cover up what he was doing (the whole shooting Data, trying to get Picard to leave in a hurry, allowing Ru'afo to destroy the Enterprise) it looks like he was rouge and this was an illegal operation.

 

[BillJ]

The Prime Directive: Out of story the Prime Directive means whatever the given writer needs it to mean to use it for dramatic effect. In story, Picard did not argue the Prime Directive angle very much once Daugherty said it didn't apply to the Ba'ku because they weren't native to the planet.

Why would Daugherty bring along an unknown element (Data) on such a illegal mission? Doesn't pass the 'common-sense' test. Plus Daugherty said the Federation Council had ordered the removal of the Ba'ku.

The Native Americans had territorial rights here long before the United States existed... see how well it worked out for them. Unfortunately any government is going to use resources that it thinks it needs and move the folks who stand in the way. Ever heard of 'eminent domain'?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The Prime Directive: Out of story the Prime Directive means whatever the given writer needs it to mean to use it for dramatic effect. In story, Picard did not argue the Prime Directive angle very much once Daugherty said it didn't apply to the Ba'ku because they weren't native to the planet.

Why would Daugherty bring along an unknown element (Data) on such a illegal mission? Doesn't pass the 'common-sense' test. Plus Daugherty said the Federation Council had ordered the removal of the Ba'ku.

1) Data was there for the covert observation of a pre-warp species not relocating them hence his getting shot when he found the ship.

2) The Federation Council sure changed their minds pretty damned fast after Riker talked to them fast.

The Native Americans had territorial rights here long before the United States existed... see how well it worked out for them.

Are you supporting wiping out races that don't bow down to the Federation?

Unfortunately any government is going to use resources that it thinks it needs and move the folks who stand in the way. Ever heard of 'eminent domain'?

IT'S! NOT! THEIR! PLANET! The Federation isn't the Romulan Empire they don't claim every planet in the galaxy they see, why else do you think species have to join and be accepted to get in.

I'm sorry but did you actually watch the film or any Star Trek for that matter?

 

[BillJ]

The Prime Directive: Out of story the Prime Directive means whatever the given writer needs it to mean to use it for dramatic effect. In story, Picard did not argue the Prime Directive angle very much once Daugherty said it didn't apply to the Ba'ku because they weren't native to the planet.

Why would Daugherty bring along an unknown element (Data) on such a illegal mission? Doesn't pass the 'common-sense' test. Plus Daugherty said the Federation Council had ordered the removal of the Ba'ku.

1) Data was there for the covert observation of a pre-warp species not relocating them hence his getting shot when he found the ship.

2) The Federation Council sure changed their minds pretty damned fast after Riker talked to them fast.

The Native Americans had territorial rights here long before the United States existed... see how well it worked out for them.

Are you supporting wiping out races that don't bow down to the Federation?

Unfortunately any government is going to use resources that it thinks it needs and move the folks who stand in the way. Ever heard of 'eminent domain'?

IT'S! NOT! THEIR! PLANET! The Federation isn't the Romulan Empire they don't claim every planet in the galaxy they see, why else do you think species have to join and be accepted to get in.

I'm sorry but did you actually watch the film or any Star Trek for that matter?

Well... if I remember the film correctly: The Ba'ku relocation wasn't stopped, but put on "hold" while it was re-evaluated.

The Ba'ku planet is within Federation territory... making it a Federation planet by default. Or do you think that the Romulans or Klingons can just move to any uninhabited planet in Federation space?

And you truly believe that Data of all people wasn't going to figure out what was going on sooner or later? Are you really that dense? That is what I mean by bringing along an unknown element... doesn't happen on covert missions.

Seems like the Federaton doesn't have a problem with allowing weaker nations to fall to stronger ones.

From The Last Outpost

DATA: They should add that Starfleet has permitted several civilisations to fall. We have at times allowed the strong and violent to overcome the weak.

And we do know that at times that Starfleet has violated the Prime Directive when it suits their purposes. Plus we also know that the Federation uses populated planets as poker chips when dealing with foreign powers. See the whole Cardassian/Maquis clusterfuck.

Then the final piece: Why would Starfleet allow an Admiral, a man they've spent a ton of time and resources devolping and that has information vital to the security of the Federation to command a simple duck blind mission to spy on six hundred quakers? Every other duck blind mission of that nature was manned by scientists not Starfleet Admirals.

I have to ask you if you've actually watched any Star Trek in general or Insurrection in particular?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The Prime Directive: Out of story the Prime Directive means whatever the given writer needs it to mean to use it for dramatic effect. In story, Picard did not argue the Prime Directive angle very much once Daugherty said it didn't apply to the Ba'ku because they weren't native to the planet.

Why would Daugherty bring along an unknown element (Data) on such a illegal mission? Doesn't pass the 'common-sense' test. Plus Daugherty said the Federation Council had ordered the removal of the Ba'ku.

1) Data was there for the covert observation of a pre-warp species not relocating them hence his getting shot when he found the ship.

2) The Federation Council sure changed their minds pretty damned fast after Riker talked to them fast.



Are you supporting wiping out races that don't bow down to the Federation?



IT'S! NOT! THEIR! PLANET! The Federation isn't the Romulan Empire they don't claim every planet in the galaxy they see, why else do you think species have to join and be accepted to get in.

I'm sorry but did you actually watch the film or any Star Trek for that matter?

Well... if I remember the film correctly: The Ba'ku relocation wasn't stopped, but put on "hold" while it was re-evaluated.

considering doing so would look like the Federation taking part in a blood fued and the lack of the radiations usage by the Federation being mentioned in other Treks as well as LaForge still had implants in the next film as well as Picard and crew still being in Starfleet and not court martialed, I'd say yes the relocation was scraped and again we only had Daugherty's word that the council ordered it so it could have still been illegal.

The Ba'ku planet is within Federation territory... making it a Federation planet by default. Or do you think that the Romulans or Klingons can just move to any uninhabited planet in Federation space?

Well considering it would violate the Neutral Zones that were around (or around some of the time in the case of the Klingons) when they were in conflict with the feds not to mention the stupidity of allowing the federation the ability to cut off any of those planets from supplies very easily would take care of that. Also if the Ba'ku were on a Federation world they would be citizens and Starfleet wouldn't have to kidnap them in the night to get them off the planet they would just force them to leave.

And you truly believe that Data of all people wasn't going to figure out what was going on sooner or later? Are you really that dense? That is what I mean by bringing along an unknown element... doesn't happen on covert missions.

considering how easily Daugherty was manipulated by Ru'afo most of the film and how he stupidly believed informing the council would some how stop Ru'afo's plan when they were on his ship which led to Daugherty's death, he doesn't exactly look they type to not go with a bad idea, plus again if Data knew about it he wouldn't have been shot for finding the ship, why do you keep trying to use a plot hole like it's some kind of sound argument?

Seems like the Federaton doesn't have a problem with allowing weaker nations to fall to stronger ones.

From The Last Outpost

DATA: They should add that Starfleet has permitted several civilisations to fall. We have at times allowed the strong and violent to overcome the weak.

1) They never helped the stronger power crush the weaker one since they always looked down on stronger powers that do that.

2) That was in the TNG era after the Federation's balls fell off.

And we do know that at times that Starfleet has violated the Prime Directive when it suits their purposes.

I though you said it didn't apply which is it?

Plus we also know that the Federation uses populated planets as poker chips when dealing with foreign powers. See the whole Cardassian/Maquis clusterfuck.

You mean the planets that left the Federation and thus Starfleet had no authority over the people living on them which was forgotten by DS9?

Then the final piece: Why would Starfleet allow an Admiral, a man they've spent a ton of time and resources devolping and that has information vital to the security of the Federation to command a simple duck blind mission to spy on six hundred quakers? Every other duck blind mission of that nature was manned by scientists not Starfleet Admirals.

Well considering Picard didn't find it wierd this was going on when he thought this was a duck blind they must allow alot of admirals to do this.

I have to ask you if you've actually watched any Star Trek in general or Insurrection in particular?

I've been watching it I don't know what the hell you've been watching

Now can we maybe get back to the topic of this thread?