Did Kirk and Spock commit murder?

[telerites]

In "Wolf in the Fold,' when Kirk and Spock beam Jarvis into deep space, is Jarvis simply possessed and as such he would die in the void. I know the entity could not be killed and Spock has statements and that but if Jarvis was simply possessed, are they murdering him?

Maybe using the logic, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

It may have been answered in the episode but I can't remember.

 

[Timo]

Kirk and Spock are soldiers - they've got a license to kill.

But Hengist (not Jaris) apparently was already stone dead. After all, Redjac had departed the corpse once already, and demonstrated there was no life left in there. We even got a classic "He's dead, Jim" from McCoy.

I think the bigger question is, did Scotty commit murder? He's the prime suspect in several of the stabbings, and for a good reason...

Intriguingly, McCoy is the likeliest suspect for murdering Jaris' wife: he's the only one who could have broken the seance circle more or less unnoticed, grabbed the knife an backstabbed the poor seer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[telerites]

Thanks Timo! Shows you how bad my memory is. Not only did I not Jaris' name correct and he was indeed not the person I was thinking. He was the Prefect. I also forgot McCoy's , "he's dead..."

So they beamed a corpse into deep space along with the entity. I always this episode begged for a sequel as the entity really can't die for all intents and purposes. Maybe one has been done in novel somewhere.

And you raise lots of other intriguing points I has never thought about.

 

[trynda1701]

DC Comics did in fact do a sequel to the episode in the Movie timeframe as a two issue story in their first series of Trek comics (NB: article contains spoilers)...

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Redjac

That article also mentions that Wildstorm Comics also did a TNG sequel, but I haven't read that one.

 

[bbjeg]

When you think of it bla bla bla in the time of war yada yada yada point of view bla bla bla that guy the Klingons were transporting, then yeah, Kirk and Spock are murderers.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

In "Tomorrow is Yesterday," Kirk arguably murdered the time-travel duplicates of Captain Christopher and the Air Police Sergeant when he beamed them into oblivion. But in the big picture, they were men who weren't supposed to exist, so he did the right thing.

 

[Ithekro]

Yes, but mostly in self defense.

 

[Timo]

...What makes it funnier is that our heroes aren't entitled to self defense. If there are Federation interests and Prime Directive concerns at play, they are supposed to sacrifice their lives. Although apparently that rule isn't enforced by the death penalty, so I can see it doesn't get followed all that often...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Metryq]

So Piglet was beamed into space, and now the galaxy has baco-bits everywhere.

 

[T'Girl]

If Hengist's body was medically "alive" right up until Red Jac abandoned him in the briefing room, and was dead only until Red Jac returned, then possible the real Hengist was still present, but in a unconcious state similar to Scotty's when he was possessed.

Hengist's death might have been instead a state of extremely low biological activity, so low that McCoy wouldn't have been able to detect a pulse.

 

[Timo]

Perhaps so. (Euthanasia, then?)

Was Hengist treated the same as Scotty? The episode tries rather hard to suggest that Scotty just slept through the murders while somebody, perhaps Hengist, wielded the knife. But if Redjac has the ability to leave Hengist for a moment and go control somebody else to murderous ends (Jaris!), then it seems rather likely that it would choose to do that same trick all the time, and indeed use Scotty's (and perhaps McCoy's) hand for the killings. This still sets Hengist in a separate category, as he is never allowed lucid moments where he could honestly say "I don't remember... It's all so fuzzy".

Perhaps repeated exposure to Redjac control gradually wears down a person until he's as close to death as Hengist. Or perhaps Redjac has several tricks up its noncorporeal sleeve, and a "master host" is always part of the scheme, as are "random hitmen".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[urbandefault]

Maybe Hengist was dead all along.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Some people have temporary mergers and then separate, like Spock-Nomad or Spock-Kollos.

Other people merge with an entity and never emerge, like Mr. Hengist, Nancy Hedford, and Decker in TMP. We call these other people guest stars.

 

[urbandefault]

Some people have temporary mergers and then separate, like Spock-Nomad or Spock-Kollos.

Other people merge with an entity and never emerge, like Mr. Hengist, Nancy Hedford, and Decker in TMP. We call these other people guest stars.

 

[telerites]

So Piglet was beamed into space, and now the galaxy has baco-bits everywhere.

I knew he was Piglet's voice but this surprised me - John Fiedler also did the voice of Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner for the Captain America Returns record album. I have not heard those but with his high-pitched voice, it doesn't seem too super-heroic.

He was great in the Bob Newhart Show.

 

[Marsden]

Maybe Hengist was dead all along.

That's what I said a few threads ago about that episode. He's a Draugar or Revenant.

(Scientific equivalent of course, I suppose a dead body that constantly had all decay bacteria erradicated by an external agency wouldn't decay and then if it was similarly stimulated by same agency it would move around and appear alive.)

 

[telerites]

Maybe Hengist was dead all along.

That's what I said a few threads ago about that episode. He's a Draugar or Revenant.

(Scientific equivalent of course, I suppose a dead body that constantly had all decay bacteria erradicated by an external agency wouldn't decay and then if it was similarly stimulated by same agency it would move around and appear alive.)

But I assume Kirk and Spock wouldn't know that he was dead before McCoy declared him dead? Moot I guess since he was dead when beamed out.

 

[T'Girl]

If he was always dead (instead of mostly dead) then how did McCoy's injected drug have any effect upon his body? With no blood circulation the drug would basically just sit where it was injected.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I suppose a dead body that constantly had all decay bacteria erradicated by an external agency wouldn't decay and then if it was similarly stimulated by same agency it would move around and appear alive.

This article suggests that there would still be problems, including self-digestion at the cellular level:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/05/this-is-what-happens-after-you-die/

But if we can believe in Redjac, a puppet Hengist is no problem at all, comparatively speaking.

If he was always dead (instead of mostly dead) then how did McCoy's injected drug have any effect upon his body? With no blood circulation the drug would basically just sit where it was injected.

Good point.

 

[f14peter]

Maybe Hengist was dead all along.

I believe the correct expression is, "Maybe Hengist was dead all along ... JIM"