Did he or didn't he?

[Gingerbread Demon]

Or has that all been reset since the special with David Tennant, John Hurt, and Matt Smith where they rescued Gallifrey?

I still feel a bit odd in that regards because in the very first series the 9th Doctor is full of regret and remorse and used something to wipe out both the Daleks and Time Lords. So has that been changed or erased from history or is it still part of history?

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, they tricked him.

WARRIOR: And if I grow to be half the man that you are, Clara Oswald, I shall be happy indeed.
CLARA: That's right. Aim high.
WARRIOR: I won't remember this, will I?
DOCTOR: The time streams are out of sync. You can't retain it, no.
WARRIOR: So I won't remember that I tried to save Gallifrey rather than burn it. I'll have to live with that. But for now, for this moment, I am the Doctor again. Thank you. Which one is mine? Ha!
(He goes into the shabbiest Tardis. It dematerialises.)

He still thinks he killed everyone.

 

[Starkers]

And so does Ten, and so does Eleven for some of his tenure.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

They changed time, but the Warrior and Ten are the "current" Doctor. They have to forget that they changed the timeline in order for that event to have occured at all... timey whimey.

Also, the rest of the Doctors apparently have to forget that Gallifrey's gonna be destroyed in their distant future.

 

[Guy Gardener]

1 can pilot the TARDIS very well, don't you think?

It seems like he kept Ian and Barabra as pets.

PS

A broken Fluid Link is what got those 4 wandering the surface of Skaro looking for a good time.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

1 can pilot the TARDIS very well, don't you think?

It seems like he kept Ian and Barabra as pets.

PS

A broken Fluid Link is what got those 4 wandering the surface of Skaro looking for a good time.

Oddly enough even in the Peter Cushing movies they went with the fluid link. Only the Doctor was the one that removed it so they could wander around.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rule #1.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Rule #1.

The Doctor always lies.

But wasn't that only a rule for New Who?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The first Doctor in his 2nd adventure claimed to have no idea what a Dalek was, and that a broken/missing Fluid link stuffed up his ship.

Although if Susan knew what a Dalek was as well, it certainly explained what all that little girl screaming was about the first time she saw one on Skaro.

Rule #2: Susan lies.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The first Doctor in his 2nd adventure claimed to have no idea what a Dalek was, and that a broken/missing Fluid link stuffed up his ship.

Although if Susan knew what a Dalek was as well, it certainly explained what all that little girl screaming was about the first time she saw one on Skaro.

Rule #2: Susan lies.

Susan's really the Doctor from a future regeneration trying to to mess around and troll her younger self..

 

[Redfern]

Didn't Hartnell's Doctor later admit to Ian he had deceived the rest about the fluid link? That is, it was perfectly fine, but he was so desperate to investigate the city that he claimed it was damaged, noting an advanced population center like that would have the mercury needed to refill it. Later, of course, the Daleks took the fluid link, forcing them to stay to retrieve it.

So, yeah, the Doctor lied from the beginning.

 

[Solariabsg25]

It does in fact make things even more tragic for The Doctor, as we the audience know that Nine, Ten and Eleven were carrying around this guilt and angst for killing their people when they actually hadn't, for centuries.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It does in fact make things even more tragic for The Doctor, as we the audience know that Nine, Ten and Eleven were carrying around this guilt and angst for killing their people when they actually hadn't, for centuries.

Yes but in that timeline and iteration they did......

9 did kill Gallifrey but it only changed later in the future when those 3 doctors changed history and saved Gallifrey

 

[Guy Gardener]

10 and 11 were hypothetical constructs who thought that they were real boys.

They changed 8.5's memories, so that he thought he killed them all, recklessly playing with the web of time.

They didn't actually have to fiddle with his memories, since time gave him a blank spot, where everything should have happened.

8.5 probably woke up in the TARDIS with no recollection of what he did, and then worked out what had happened (incorrectly) form the evidence available, like in the Hangover.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I don't think so....... I think 9 did actually do it as he has a lot of PTSD over that decision and even the Supreme Dalek remembers the events of him using that weapon. But time travel being what it is when we get to the specials with Matt Smith, John Hurt, and David Tennant they were able to find an out and save their planet with some timey wimey bullshit.

But then if they could have done that in the specials does make me wonder why 9 didn't do that in the original timeline. OK yes I know it wasn't written that way but it's fun to think about.

 

[Solariabsg25]

Yes but in that timeline and iteration they did......

9 did kill Gallifrey but it only changed later in the future when those 3 doctors changed history and saved Gallifrey

Except they didn't. Look at the multi-doctor stories.

In The Three Doctors, the Third didn't know what was happening, yet the First and Second both went through the events. Once they were returned to their own times, they forgot the events, only the Third remembered clearly. Same with the Five Doctors.

The War Doctor himself said he wouldn't remember saving them, and would only believe he destroyed them, and Eleven only had a vague fuzzy recollection of some portions of what happened when he started living through the events.

As to the Supreme Dalek remembering The Doctor using The Moment, that was the entire point. To make Gallifrey vanish out of time and have the Daleks destroy themselves in their own crossfire, and appear as if a huge explosion had just wiped out both sides.

If the Supreme Dalek did NOT believe that it had worked, then the whole of history since then would have been different as the Daleks would have been preparing themselves for the return of Gallifrey and they had no clue that Gallifrey still existed until the events of Time Of The Doctor.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Except they didn't. Look at the multi-doctor stories.

In The Three Doctors, the Third didn't know what was happening, yet the First and Second both went through the events. Once they were returned to their own times, they forgot the events, only the Third remembered clearly. Same with the Five Doctors.

The War Doctor himself said he wouldn't remember saving them, and would only believe he destroyed them, and Eleven only had a vague fuzzy recollection of some portions of what happened when he started living through the events.

As to the Supreme Dalek remembering The Doctor using The Moment, that was the entire point. To make Gallifrey vanish out of time and have the Daleks destroy themselves in their own crossfire, and appear as if a huge explosion had just wiped out both sides.

If the Supreme Dalek did NOT believe that it had worked, then the whole of history since then would have been different as the Daleks would have been preparing themselves for the return of Gallifrey and they had no clue that Gallifrey still existed until the events of Time Of The Doctor.

Oh K........ See I always think stories like this can be open to interpretation. I took series 1 of new who to be one timeline which changes as future series happen because we are seeing new stories and adventures.... So to my way of thinking 9 did remember the war as it had happened but this later changes with the addition of the war doctor and such and it's all time travel anyway and it's confusing sometimes...... I will shut up now. Byeeeeeeeee

 

[Guy Gardener]

The time war was locked right?

Which means that before it was locked the timelords and the Daleks kept rewriting every battle, reversing every loss and killing the parents and then grand parents of every major ounce of thorny opposition pressing their shoulder to the wheel, so even if the the War Doctor used the Moment, in a billion time lines stacked upon each other, it was always reversed by the Daleks, so that the battle had to be replayed again and again a trillion times as time kept looping because planets that should be there kept getting blow up 10 thousand years early.

The moment unlocked and unfixed the moment the moment got used... But all time outside that moment, and maybe only a little bit of space either side of where they were standing, was still fixed and reacted as if the moment had fired... Which it hadn't this time, but it had most of the times history had reached this close to the end of the war.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Reminds me of The Prisoner. Hurt to Eccleston "I'm #9, you're the new #10" "I'm not a number, I'm a free Doctor!"

 

[MacLeod]

Yes but in that timeline and iteration they did......

9 did kill Gallifrey but it only changed later in the future when those 3 doctors changed history and saved Gallifrey

Yes but when we get the flashback to the War Doctor and his Interactions with The Moment, surely that always happened at The Moment opened the timelock to allow him to see what his future selves would be like.