Did Enterprise fandom dissipate exceptionally thoroughly?

[Anna Yolei]

My thought is that there are two main causes for this:

1) Unhappy fans — this seems to be divided very distinctly between fans who were unhappy with the show and left long before the end and fans who were unhappy with the ending (both the infamous final episode and the show being cancelled before it could complete its intended run)

Definitely both played a factor. I was here on this board when the finale aired, and there were a lot of heartbroken ENT fans who were fairly new to the franchise that swore off any future Trek series as a result of this. Given I walked away from the Voltron reboot for the same reason, I get it.

The people that wandered away mid-show wete not all that invested to begin with, for a variety of reasons.

2) Bad timing — Enterprise ended just as YouTube was starting, Facebook was becoming available to the general population, LiveJournal was being sold and Tumblr was starting. By the time the major platforms found their user-base, nostalgia was in full swing for DS9, TNG and Voyager. People took the time to create a new fandom community for these shows on these new platforms. Enterprise was still grappling with the bitterness left in its wake and wasn’t really old enough to evoke nostalgia, so there wasn’t as big a push to create new fandom communities on these new platforms.

I turn 37 in a few days, but i hadn't considered this.

I had a friend on Twitter just ask about some active communities and as I looked around my old haunts of House of Tucker and Tralaxian Silk, I was at a loss as both appear to have gone defunct. Even r/Enterprise sees posts at most once a week. This is by far the most active Trek community but we can't discuss shipping here for very good reason and there's no other place I can think of for that sort of thing.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Enterprise may simply have occupied the wrong time, both in-and out of universe.

Out of universe: during the last part of the downward arc of the Berman Era (I don't mean 'downward arc' in terms of quality, but more in terms of popularity, and audience saturation with Trek). People were becoming tired of the old trek format and here was yet another show in approximately the same format.
In universe: pre-federation era. Little or no links to the other shows, except for the species. So the gap from watching VOY to ENT may have been larger than, for example, from VOY to DS9 or TNG, or even TOS. All other shows were 23rd century or later, in a Federation era, no show is all alone set in its own century (Well, TOS originally was, of course, and now DIS is, but that one also started out in the 23rd century). And instead of capitalizing on telling typical pre-fedederation stories and digging into how the Federation came to be, it mostly wasted the first 2 years on 'alien of the week' stories.

In order for a fandom to keep existing, this show therefore mostly must stand on its own legs. More so than, say, VOY, which is more embedded into general Trek fandom.

Which is a pity, because the show wasn't bad. Even though the first two years were fairly standard fare and more of the old stuff, the last 2 seasons were significantly different and it got a harder deal than it deserved.

Speaking for myself as someone who was entirely new to this franchise back then and happened to give the show a chance because we were 15 days out from 9/11 and desperately needed a break from that coverage, I liked that ENT didn't require me to have a full background knowledge of Trek lore to jump into it. I didn't know the Andorians were a legacy Trek species going back to TOS as one example. They just were cool dudes to me.

That said, I do think if ENT had done a bit more fleshing out of the elements fans had wanted to see for decades like the Romulan war or leaned into interactions with TOS species other than the Klingons (because GOOOOOOD did watching DS9 later on make me sick of them and I doubt I was the only one), the show would've been better received.

Note: I am not saying it would have saved the series because I think it still would've been a casualty of the eventual CW merger and Les Moonves very openly had it out for the franchise, but it could've maybe gotten a fifth season, at least.

 

[fireproof78]

That said, I do think if ENT had done a bit more fleshing out of the elements fans had wanted to see for decades like the Romulan war or leaned into interactions with TOS species other than the Klingons (because GOOOOOOD did watching DS9 later on make me sick of them and I doubt I was the only one), the show would've been better received.

I agree on this point. Enterprise struck me sideways partly because it had the Klingons from the first episode of a prequel. It just didn't sit right with me, and the way they explored other species was largely problematic, because we would get all these new species and then go "Well, where are they later on." Unfortunately, it's way too distracting from a worldbuilding point of view.

Ultimately, I think that Enterprise leaned too hard in the TNG direction rather than the TOS direction. Which, for those unfamiliar with the franchise probably would have been OK. But, for those expecting a different exploration of this era it definitely landed poorly. Among several other factors.

 

[Sumire]

I had a friend on Twitter just ask about some active communities and as I looked around my old haunts of House of Tucker and Tralaxian Silk, I was at a loss as both appear to have gone defunct. Even r/Enterprise sees posts at most once a week. This is by far the most active Trek community but we can't discuss shipping here for very good reason and there's no other place I can think of for that sort of thing.

I found both of those sites in my investigations and the fans were so engaged on them! It is what made me really want to find a currently active community. Not to sound like I stumbled out of the early aughts/noughties but I want to squee with fellow shippers!

I am, and this is not an exaggeration, combing through all the reblogs on a tragic shippy post on Tumblr trying to manufacture a community out of whole cloth. It is not going exceptionally well.

 

[Anna Yolei]

I agree on this point. Enterprise struck me sideways partly because it had the Klingons from the first episode of a prequel. It just didn't sit right with me, and the way they explored other species was largely problematic, because we would get all these new species and then go "Well, where are they later on." Unfortunately, it's way too distracting from a worldbuilding point of view.

.

The Klingon thing didn't bother me as a new fan but if I had to deal with that after I'd watch that play out over four straight seasons of DS9, I probably would've noped out of ENT without ever watching anything beyond the trailer. I can't blame anyone else for having the feeling that this was just the same ol' same ol' and after I did watch the other series I could understand where they were coming from.

Ultimately, I think that Enterprise leaned too hard in the TNG direction rather than the TOS direction. Which, for those unfamiliar with the franchise probably would have been OK. But, for those expecting a different exploration of this era it definitely landed poorly. Among several other factors.

Definitely. Rick Berman was a hack who very clearly failed upwards and TNG was the only major critical success of his career, so in hindsight it's not very surprising he and Braga (who to his credit was a good sci-fi concept writer, if his character stories needed work) leaned into that hard. It's also not a surprise to me that most of the few remaining fans at the time were much like myself and didn't have a big background with Trek in general.

I mean, I'm glad I got into the franchise when I did but I feel like there were many ways they could've done that without alienating a core part of the existing franchise, but given all the studio interference, I suspect better showrunners than the ones we had would've faced an uphill battle producing anything halfway decent.

That said, ENT would've benefitted from doing what DS9 and even LD did of front loading all their obvious references to previous shows to get butts in seats before branching out to explore a few original concepts. Season four for all it's technical writing improvements was more of what we should have gotten from in S1. I always have mixed feeling about that season because it was clear someone had a much needed passion for Trek that was missing since DS9 ended but I also like...wanted more stories about the effects of the Xindi war on our guys, you know?

We should've been beyond the nostalgia bait phase, is what I'm trying to say.

I found both of those sites in my investigations and the fans were so engaged on them! It is what made me really want to find a currently active community. Not to sound like I stumbled out of the early aughts/noughties but I want to squee with fellow shippers!

That's totally valid! Unfortunately, I don't know where most of those folks have scattered to, and I say that as someone who actually knew many of those folks (didn't hang out there much as a Archer/T'Pol enjoyer and our Logical Choice hangout disappeared long ago, F in the chat )

I am, and this not an exaggeration, combing through all the reblogs on a tragic shippy post on Tumblr trying to manufacture a community out of whole cloth. It is not going exceptionally well.

[Hugs]

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

This is by far the most active Trek community but we can't discuss shipping here for very good reason and there's no other place I can think of for that sort of thing.

Regarding discussions about shipping...@Mutai Sho-Rin could give you more gory details about the days when ENT was on the air and the shipper wars got members warned and suspended a lot. But things quieted down in the years after the show went off the air, and we don't have a moratorium on shipping discussions anymore. Various pairings get brought up in the course of thread discussions, with no problems or freakouts. If anyone wants to start an appreciation thread for a pairing, like in the days of yore, go for it.

 

[FederationHistorian]

ENT would've benefitted from doing what DS9 and even LD did of front loading all their obvious references to previous shows to get butts in seats before branching out to explore a few original concepts. Season four for all it's technical writing improvements was more of what we should have gotten from in S1.

They were already doing that in the lead up to S4.

• Klingons in S1 & 2
• Andorians in S1, 2 & 3
• Coridanites in S1
• Nausicaans in S1 & 2
• Risa in S1
• Tellarites S2
• Romulans in S2
• Tholians in S2
• Passing reference to Orions in S2
• Even frightened humans akin to Lily from FC existed in S1 in that freighter story

And then for new concepts, all of these other aliens we hadn’t heard of before to show the messiness of first contacts. As well as the Vulcan-Andorian conflict, and Vulcan being the major power in that era. And the showhorned Temporal Cold War.

I get the idea of front loading the first season with nostalgia, and perhaps Tellarites, Romulans, Orions and Tholians should have been in the first season. I know that the Romulans being in S2 was deliberate move by Berman and the other writers as they did not want to show the Romulans so early. And in hindsight the Ferengi story should have been an Orion story, as should have been the pirates in the Xindi arc (and in the case of the latter, that was the original plan). But are we really saying that all ENT needed in the beginning was more Orions and Romulans? Since I feel it misses the point in the issues facing ENT in the first couple of seasons, particularly regards characterizations. In that they either:

- left ideas in the cutting room floor ex. Archer having a girlfriend back home to show him as the anti-Kirk; chef being gay being abandoned because they could not make Reed also gay.

- never explore an element of character (ex. Hoshi having a sapphic nature i.e interactions with T’Pol on the Klingon ship, the slave girl Rajiin in the Xindi arc, and even that decon chamber scene in “A Night in Sickbay” that Archer fantasized about), despite such an idea having precedent in past Trek series (in this case, DS9’s “Rejoined”).

Or dropped ideas after developing them and wouldn't explore them any further ex. Mayweather in general; Phlox’s interest in Earth, his friendship with Earth females such as Hoshi and Cutler, and hinted relationship with a MACO in an alternate timeline; Hoshi’s transporter phobia and the NX era transporter causing hallucinations.

I don't know how they expected audiences to be captivated and keep tuning in week to week when they would not build their main characters better. Even Trip did not start becoming likeable until S3. That should have happened sooner.

I always have mixed feeling about that season because it was clear someone had a much needed passion for Trek that was missing since DS9 ended but I also like...wanted more stories about the effects of the Xindi war on our guys, you know?

I too have mixed feeling of S4. On one hand, its obvious that its what ENT needed to be from the beginning. But its not a perfect season.

I like the mini arcs, but also wonder if a few more standalone episodes would have been better. Did we really need the alien nazi episode to be a two parter? Did the Romulan drone arc need to be three episodes in a row and be resolved so quickly, when they could have had the Aenar story set after "Terra Prime" to show it as an ongoing situation? As much as I loved the mirror universe episodes, is there any reason that they could not have slipped in those mirror characterizations into the main characters over the course of the season, as one of the after effects of the events in the Xindi arc, and write something else in its place? Like a callback to the Suliban Cabal or a visit to Denobula or another Earth freighter/human colony story?

 

[Sumire]

Regarding discussions about shipping...@Mutai Sho-Rin could give you more gory details about the days when ENT was on the air and the shipper wars got members warned and suspended a lot.

I am torn on whether this is fan history I would like to delve into or not… On the one hand, it is history (pop culture is culture dang it) and I love learning about history, especially if one can do so from firsthand witnesses because so much history is lost to time even now when it feels like “the internet never forgets.” It can be very insightful and it can even be amusing in hindsight. I trust @Mutai Sho-Rin could spin an engaging yarn.

On the other hand, more examples of how fandom is not a happy elysian of shared excitement is rather depressing. I don’t want to insinuate that fans are all neurodivergent nerds but fandom historically offered shelter for the socially adrift so it has saddened me from my first convention onward that there is just as much jockeying for position, infighting and bullying among fans as can be found in your stereotypical high school.

I will leave it up to the veterans of the shipping wars, do you want to share some memories?

 

[Anna Yolei]

Regarding discussions about shipping...@Mutai Sho-Rin could give you more gory details about the days when ENT was on the air and the shipper wars got members warned and suspended a lot. But things quieted down in the years after the show went off the air, and we don't have a moratorium on shipping discussions anymore. Various pairings get brought up in the course of thread discussions, with no problems or freakouts. If anyone wants to start an appreciation thread for a pairing, like in the days of yore, go for it.

I was here for the worst of it, hehe (I think a few of my responses can be found in the old ship mediation threads that exist way back in the archives), but thanks for the update!

 

[Anna Yolei]

But are we really saying that all ENT needed in the beginning was more Orions and Romulans? Since I feel it misses the point in the issues facing ENT in the first couple of seasons, particularly regards characterizations.

Not at all. They absolutely needed compelling character stories the way the examples I listed managed to weave into their narratives. Audiences will forgive a lot of things if their faves are developed well.

I too have mixed feeling of S4. On one hand, its obvious that its what ENT needed to be from the beginning. But its not a perfect season.

I like the mini arcs, but also wonder if a few more standalone episodes would have been better. Did we really need the alien nazi episode to be a two parter? Did the Romulan drone arc need to be three episodes in a row and be resolved so quickly, when they could have had the Aenar story set after "Terra Prime" to show it as an ongoing situation? As much as I loved the mirror universe episodes, is there any reason that they could not have slipped in those mirror characterizations into the main characters over the course of the season, as one of the after effects of the events in the Xindi arc, and write something else in its place? Like a callback to the Suliban Cabal or a visit to Denobula or another Earth freighter/human colony story?

Agree completely.

Moreso than any other series of Classic Trek (and Christ, I feel old knowing a series I watched as a teenager is considered "classic" now!), I feel ENT would benefit so much from a Kelvin Timeline-esque reboot to fully explore the many concepts that were underdeveloped or not considered at all, either because of producer incompetence, studio interference or some combination of the two.

I will leave it up to the veterans of the shipping wars, do you want to share some memories?

Given you're a Tumblr veteran who I assume is aware of The Discourse surrounding morality in shipping and the ugly IRL things people have dealt with, I can honestly say nothing I recall here would be particularly noteworthy on that score. Mostly, it was a handful of people who knew how to say things to avoid getting warned themselves but to piss off everyone else and we'd have all been better off making liberal use of the block button. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

I do remember someone had a trolling sign they wrote in French once that they got called out and played innocent on, that was funny in hindsight.

 

[Sumire]

Given you're a Tumblr veteran who I assume is aware of The Discourse surrounding morality in shipping and the ugly IRL things people have dealt with, I can honestly say nothing I recall here would be particularly noteworthy on that score.

Oh, yes, I am familiar with The Discourse. *sigh* Not as decorated a veteran as you must be though, as a Voltron fan. Luckily my husband was the Voltron fan in our household and as he was not a part of the fandom, I saw that firestorm from a safe distance. However, I am a part of the A Song of Ice and Fire fandom and that burns as hot as dragon fire in spots.

Well, as @Anna Yolei has reassured me that I have weathered worse storms, hit me with the 411 on Star Trek ship wars past! Maybe it will make me grateful I missed out on being part of Enterprise fandom in its prime!

 

[Anna Yolei]

We did have most of the fandom headcanoned Malcolm Reed as being gay and there was a friendly rivalry between the Team Tucker and Team Hayes folks for Malcom's affections

'course, Malcolm has two hands, so....

 

[Reanok]

Yes the shipper wars was like a minefield when it came to who liked certain characters. The Enterprise shipper wars were chaotic way back when the show the originally aired. Your lucky to have missed it. I enjoyed Trip and T'Polers stories and discussions when they talked about the show and the fanfictin stories when they were originally posted on the site and here at Trek bbs .They had some good Enterprise fanfiction a long time ago they had a story I really liked alot.I can't remember the name of it but it was really good.

 

[Sumire]

They had some good Enterprise fanfiction a long time ago they had a story I really liked alot. I can't remember the name of it but it was really good.

My nose for research is twitching! What do you remember about this fanfiction? I shall attempt to find it!

 

[Nombrecomun]

1) Unhappy fans — this seems to be divided very distinctly between fans who were unhappy with the show and left long before the end and fans who were unhappy with the ending (both the infamous final episode and the show being cancelled before it could complete its intended run)

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it in other responses but there was a general increasing unhappiness with Trek with each successive series after TNG. By the time ENT came along people were already very tired of how mediocre VOY was and how different DS9 was prior. If I recall articles at the time mentioned that viewership from TNG to DS9 was halved. And then continued to diminish with the next two series.

ENT hit 'wrong' for some in that it was a 'prequel'. So many wanted 'forward'. I suppose I understand that from a certain perspective but to me the setting doesn't matter. It's the quality of the stories. SNW is a 'prequel' and it's generally well written.

I'm sure newer and/or younger fans might see something different because perhaps they're watching the series in a different order or simply with the distance of time but it was exhausting for fans who watched those shows back then. The quality of writing wasn't there. Many eps had similar topics seen before in the previous series. Trek felt tired. On one hand it was sad to see that ENT was cut 'short' but on the other hand it felt like mercy. Trek needed a break.

Or is there a marked lack of active Enterprise fans?

I think it's more like a lack of ENT fans compared to the other series.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Regarding discussions about shipping...@Mutai Sho-Rin could give you more gory details about the days when ENT was on the air and the shipper wars got members warned and suspended a lot.

I think that all took place after I was booted. I remember a cadre of nasty trolls who pissed all over the forum but have no recollection of any “shipper wars”. B&B (Berman and Braga) hate was rampant and added to the dark cloud over the forum. One individual graphically described killing them both and tying them over the hood of his car. I gave him four individual warnings for that. Lisa demanded that I rescind them and I quit as mod rather than do so. Six weeks later he got the ban hammer and shortly thereafter, T’Bonz took over.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^ Yikes. I didn't hear the details about that. Isn't it nice to be back here now that things are peaceful?

What I remember from my mostly-lurking here as a new member, as ENT was dying... there were separate shipper threads for Trip/T'Pol and Archer/T'Pol, and each set of fans was forbidden to post in the opposing shipper thread because there were a few members who couldn't play nice, just had to snipe in alien territory, and then all hell would break loose. I didn't come here much that first year, too scary. I started out as a T/T shipper, but I lurked in the A/T thread to widen my horizons, and came to appreciate where the A/T'ers were coming from. As a writer, I could see both sides, even though my perception of A/T was that they were close, trusting friends, and wouldn't cross That Line. (But hey, that's what fanfic is for.) I even wrote an A/T fic that could be seen as friends or more-than-friends, and got some nice comments from some A/T shippers, which I treasure.

So the world is big enough for both, and more, says I. IDIC and all.

 

[Sumire]

Oh wow, that’s awful @Mutai Sho-Rin! I cannot imagine what an off-putting atmosphere was allowed to flourish that made graphically described violence toward actual people of less concern than the condemnation of said behavior. I am distinctly glad, however, that I was not here for it.

I have never understood that inclination you describe @HopefulRomantic, of stirring up ill will among “rival” shippers. I definitely have run across that on Tumblr and Discord and it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have shipped some pretty overshadowed ships (Hi Finn x Rey and yes that means I like Star Wars, I ship people on Stargate too, I’m up for romance among all the stars!) and I completely get the despondency that comes from looking longingly at the buffet of content prepared by the finest metaphorical chefs for a NOTP while you pick at the crumbs your OTP gets. However, not one single writer or artist has ever said “You made me feel so awful about liking my favorite ship, I feel inspired to create for your favorite ship!”

 

[Anna Yolei]

I think that all took place after I was booted. I remember a cadre of nasty trolls who pissed all over the forum but have no recollection of any “shipper wars”. B&B (Berman and Braga) hate was rampant and added to the dark cloud over the forum. One individual graphically described killing them both and tying them over the hood of his car. I gave him four individual warnings for that. Lisa demanded that I rescind them and I quit as mod rather than do so. Six weeks later he got the ban hammer and shortly thereafter, T’Bonz took over.

Jesus Christ.

You were well within your right to ban him entirely for that and I'm baffled why Lisa would have even tolerated that, no matter how unpopular Bermaga were. Granted, social media didn't exist so perhaps people were just really underestimating how absolutely bugfucked some people can be.

FWIW, I got warned for making a far less unhinged but by no means appropriate comment after Michael Piller passed saying we lost the wrong exec, and another user got banned for calling ignore the "kill button," so I can say that the culture had shifted considerably by '05, at least.

The ship wars really started picking up steam after Similitude aired and hit a crescendo during season 4 and it's no coincidence that many of the people who were okay with TATV were Archer stans. Suffice it to say I found myself at odds with many fellow A/T'P fans on that one. Like, I wanted my ship to happen but that was a damn monkey's paw to get that possibility.

 

[Reanok]

Sumire the fanfiction story was here at Trek bbs it was a sci fi mystery about the Jupiter space station and the Enterprise crew was sent to investigate it I think it's called the Destroyer of worlds it came out around 2001 02 or 03.I remember it was really exciting and had really good story arcs for and T'Pol and the entire Enterprise crew. I remember the incidents Mutai Shai Renn is talking about Berman and Braga. It was scary people behaved like they did .It got intense here and like I said it was like a minefield at times. Trolls loved to try and set the shipper wars off against each other. It wasn't fun place to be when it happened a long time ago that's for sure..