Well the $64,000 question---- did you see other deleted scenes from TWOK? (not the usual 'romulan heritage' scene and the 'original bridge finale' scene that are available on youtube)
Did David Marcus ever meet Jim Kirk before TWOK?
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Well the $64,000 question---- did you see other deleted scenes from TWOK? (not the usual 'romulan heritage' scene and the 'original bridge finale' scene that are available on youtube)
Yes, including the first scene with the baby onboard the Botany Bay and tons of other things that were deleted. The rough cut was apparently created for an outside vendor to cut a trailer for the movie, though, so it's missing the final reel in order to conceal Spock's death.
Here's the catalog description of it:
"A videotape of a b&w work print of work in progress, sent to the outside vendor who was cutting the theatrical trailer and TV spots; sent under the code name Pisces Project for the purpose of maintaining secrecy prior to the film’s release."
I have a word document listing all the changes I recognized, but I was hoping to at least capture some audio before I put it online. May not get the chance, however.
Here's the catalog description of it:
"A videotape of a b&w work print of work in progress, sent to the outside vendor who was cutting the theatrical trailer and TV spots; sent under the code name Pisces Project for the purpose of maintaining secrecy prior to the film’s release."
I have a word document listing all the changes I recognized, but I was hoping to at least capture some audio before I put it online. May not get the chance, however.
^^ Wow, you are very fortunate--I would pay big bucks to see that rough cut. Please do post a list of the changes you noticed if you can. I know the shooting script like the back of my hand, but I don't know what material made the rough cut or was even actually filmed.
List of things I'd like to know if were filmed or made rough cut...............
1. Khan mentioning Marla by name and telling her story
2. Terrell tricking Kyle and Beach into letting them re-board with 'guests
3. Khan interogating Chekov on bridge of reliant
4. Longer conversation between Saavik & Spock after inspection
5. David bashing the 'military mentality' prior to the first existing scene with Carol
6. McCoy mentioning he served with Terrell in the past
7. Saavik and David flirting in 'Eden cave'
8. McCoy doing surgery on Chekov's ear
9. Chekov waking after surgery demanding to be allowed to go to the bridge
Thanks for the info and lets all hope Paramount lets those scenes be included the Director's cut Blu-ray that will likely come in 2012
List of things I'd like to know if were filmed or made rough cut...............
1. Khan mentioning Marla by name and telling her story
2. Terrell tricking Kyle and Beach into letting them re-board with 'guests
3. Khan interogating Chekov on bridge of reliant
4. Longer conversation between Saavik & Spock after inspection
5. David bashing the 'military mentality' prior to the first existing scene with Carol
6. McCoy mentioning he served with Terrell in the past
7. Saavik and David flirting in 'Eden cave'
8. McCoy doing surgery on Chekov's ear
9. Chekov waking after surgery demanding to be allowed to go to the bridge
Thanks for the info and lets all hope Paramount lets those scenes be included the Director's cut Blu-ray that will likely come in 2012
At some point I'll make a thread about this, but until then here's the transcription of dialogue that I made watching the rough cut (and it was rough, with production audio, and in grainy black and white).
KHAN
And I’ll wager he never told you about his shipmate. The beautiful and courageous Lieutenant McGivers. Who gave up everything to join me in exile...out of love. You didn’t expect to find me...
KYLE
Captain Terrell, this is Reliant, respond, please.
BEACH
Mr. Kyle, muster a landing party with full arms. Alert the transporter room. We’re beaming down.
KYLE
Transporter room--
TERRELL (V.O.)
Reliant, this is Terrell, respond please.
BEACH
This is Reliant. Clark, are you all right?
TERRELL (V.O.)
Everything’s fine, Commander. I’ll explain when I see you. Oh, by the way, we’re bringing several guests aboard. Prepare to beam up on my next signal. Terrell out.
KYLE
Guests?
BEACH
Maybe we are transplanting something.
Nothing like this happened that I took note of.
Since the version I saw had incomplete ADR, the following was in English. I think it's just the same as in the finished movie, except not dubbed into Vulcan, though.
SAAVIK
He’s not what I expected, sir.
SPOCK
What did you expect, Lieutenant?
SAAVIK
He’s very...human.
SPOCK
We can’t all be perfect, Saavik.
DAVID
How can you let them pull that stuff on you? They’re just lazy.
CAROL
And bored. I know. But maybe it is something they can transplant.
DAVID
Oh, come on mother, that’s military mentality. Never put off tomorrow what you can put off today. If there is one atom of life on Ceti Alpha--
CAROL
I know, I know.
Just a short exchange.
KIRK
Oh my God.
MCCOY
Jim, this is Clark Terrell. I’ve served with him.
In the Genesis CAVE:
SAAVIK looks at DAVID. DAVID looks back at SAAVIK.
DAVID
What are you looking at?
SAAVIK
The Admiral’s son.
DAVID
Well, don’t you believe it.
SAAVIK
Oh, I believe it.
(beat)
What are you looking at?
DAVID
I don’t know.
SAAVIK rolls her eyes, gets up, and walks over to KIRK.
KIRK
Now that’s what I call a meal.
MCCOY
IT’s like a garden of Eden.
CAROL
Only here, every apple comes from the tree of knowledge.
KIRK
What’s on your mind, Lieutenant?
SAAVIK
The Kobayashi Maru, Sir.
DAVID
The what?
MCCOY
The no-win scenario.
KIRK
Are you asking me if we’re acting out...(Same as movie)
Not that I've taken note of, nor that I recall.
I also didn't notice this scene.
KHAN
And I’ll wager he never told you about his shipmate. The beautiful and courageous Lieutenant McGivers. Who gave up everything to join me in exile...out of love. You didn’t expect to find me...
KYLE
Captain Terrell, this is Reliant, respond, please.
BEACH
Mr. Kyle, muster a landing party with full arms. Alert the transporter room. We’re beaming down.
KYLE
Transporter room--
TERRELL (V.O.)
Reliant, this is Terrell, respond please.
BEACH
This is Reliant. Clark, are you all right?
TERRELL (V.O.)
Everything’s fine, Commander. I’ll explain when I see you. Oh, by the way, we’re bringing several guests aboard. Prepare to beam up on my next signal. Terrell out.
KYLE
Guests?
BEACH
Maybe we are transplanting something.
Nothing like this happened that I took note of.
Since the version I saw had incomplete ADR, the following was in English. I think it's just the same as in the finished movie, except not dubbed into Vulcan, though.
SAAVIK
He’s not what I expected, sir.
SPOCK
What did you expect, Lieutenant?
SAAVIK
He’s very...human.
SPOCK
We can’t all be perfect, Saavik.
DAVID
How can you let them pull that stuff on you? They’re just lazy.
CAROL
And bored. I know. But maybe it is something they can transplant.
DAVID
Oh, come on mother, that’s military mentality. Never put off tomorrow what you can put off today. If there is one atom of life on Ceti Alpha--
CAROL
I know, I know.
Just a short exchange.
KIRK
Oh my God.
MCCOY
Jim, this is Clark Terrell. I’ve served with him.
In the Genesis CAVE:
SAAVIK looks at DAVID. DAVID looks back at SAAVIK.
DAVID
What are you looking at?
SAAVIK
The Admiral’s son.
DAVID
Well, don’t you believe it.
SAAVIK
Oh, I believe it.
(beat)
What are you looking at?
DAVID
I don’t know.
SAAVIK rolls her eyes, gets up, and walks over to KIRK.
KIRK
Now that’s what I call a meal.
MCCOY
IT’s like a garden of Eden.
CAROL
Only here, every apple comes from the tree of knowledge.
KIRK
What’s on your mind, Lieutenant?
SAAVIK
The Kobayashi Maru, Sir.
DAVID
The what?
MCCOY
The no-win scenario.
KIRK
Are you asking me if we’re acting out...(Same as movie)
Not that I've taken note of, nor that I recall.
I also didn't notice this scene.
^^ So very cool that you got to see those long lost scenes!!
At what point did the rough cut end--just before Spock's death or at some other point? Those two scenes with Chekov/McCoy were pretty late in the movie so perhaps they were in the last missing reel. They take place just after Kirk & co. are rescued from Regula and during the battle.
But it is absolutely fantastic that those scenes survive to this day and perhaps we will get to see them before we die!
Okay, I admit I am greedy... I'll ask about a few more....
1. Kirk actually trying on the glasses in his appt.
2. Terrell seeing the baby inside the cargo carrier/home
3. The Sulu promotion scene (I really doubt this was in the rough cut)
4. After Kirk & co. view the genesis tape & is notified Reliant is near---Kirk mentioning Chekov is aboard Reliant
5. Khan calling himself by full name 'Khan Noonian Singh' and calling himself a caged eagle.
Hope you won't think I'm nagging for too much info--it's just I've been fascinated by TWOK's script/cuts since seeing the 'TV version' in 1985 and owning the script since 1989. It seems the movie would have run about 7 or so minutes longer with the additions you saw.
Thank you so very much!
Oh yeah, Paramount---30th anniversary TWOK BLU-RAY release in 2012 with a deleted scenes section--just take my credit card and subtract whatever you want!!!
At what point did the rough cut end--just before Spock's death or at some other point? Those two scenes with Chekov/McCoy were pretty late in the movie so perhaps they were in the last missing reel. They take place just after Kirk & co. are rescued from Regula and during the battle.
But it is absolutely fantastic that those scenes survive to this day and perhaps we will get to see them before we die!
Okay, I admit I am greedy... I'll ask about a few more....
1. Kirk actually trying on the glasses in his appt.
2. Terrell seeing the baby inside the cargo carrier/home
3. The Sulu promotion scene (I really doubt this was in the rough cut)
4. After Kirk & co. view the genesis tape & is notified Reliant is near---Kirk mentioning Chekov is aboard Reliant
5. Khan calling himself by full name 'Khan Noonian Singh' and calling himself a caged eagle.
Hope you won't think I'm nagging for too much info--it's just I've been fascinated by TWOK's script/cuts since seeing the 'TV version' in 1985 and owning the script since 1989. It seems the movie would have run about 7 or so minutes longer with the additions you saw.
Thank you so very much!
Oh yeah, Paramount---30th anniversary TWOK BLU-RAY release in 2012 with a deleted scenes section--just take my credit card and subtract whatever you want!!!
Last edited:
Why do I already know all of this?
This is what I wrote down during the scene:
MCCOY
No, no. No, you pull them down on your nose. That’s it, now you look at me over the top, and you read the printed matter through the bottom.
KIRK
Oahhh...
(this is a terrible line reading)
Yes! In fact, the scene is so centered around the baby (who doesn't appear in any other scenes in the version I saw--though it was missing the ending, where the baby has been glimpsed in certain production stills) that I found myself having quite a bit more respect for the editor of the movie.
TERRELL
You know these look like cargo carriers.
CHEKOV looks in the window, sees the CHILD. CHEKOV screams.
CHEKOV
A face! It was like a child.
TERRELL
You’re crazy.
CHEKOV
I saw it.
TERRELL
Hey, this looks like an airlock. Give me a hand.
--
TERRELL
...crash-landed, then where’s the rest of the ship?
TERELL walks into the next room, sees CHEKOV with the CHILD.
CHEKOV
I told you. I told you, I saw a child.
TERRELL
(to child)
Hey. Hey. Now look at that. What are you doing here? Where’s your mommy and daddy?
This is when Chekov realizes this is the Botany Bay.
TERRELL
But what about the child?
CHEKOV
Never mind that! Hurry! Hurry!
TERRELL
Chekov! What’s the matter with you? Chekov. Chekov!
CHEKOV
C’mon!
TERRELL
Well, what is it?
CHEKOV
Hurry!
Here's how the scene plays out in the rough cut I saw. Takei has long accused Shatner of ruining the take, and in my eyes, that's exactly what happens.
SULU
Well, I’m delighted. Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise, however briefly. It’s always an excuse for nostalgia.
KIRK
Well, with Spock as Captain you don’t think I’m going to turn anything up, do you?
CUT-AWAY to STOCK from TMP
KIRK
(looks down at Sulu, looks back up)
By the end of the month, you’ll have your own command, the U.S.S. Excelsior.
MCCOY
Well, congratulations, Commander.
SULU
Thank you, sir. I’ve been looking forward to that for a long time.
KIRK
Well I for one am glad to have you at the helm for three weeks. I don’t think these kids can steer.
There's just a throw-away line:
SPOCK
Reliant? Here?
KIRK
Chekov is on Reliant, isn’t he?
Didn't take a note of anything like this.
The version I saw was 95 minutes according to the catalog entry, though since it was missing the ending I'm not sure how that works out. Honestly, despite my enjoyment in getting to see these scenes, I almost universally agree with their deletion from the finished film.
The last alternate line of dialogue I wrote down was from Kirk. In the film, I believe he says "Z-minus 10,000 meters." In the rough cut, the slightly different:
KIRK
Descend 10,000 meters.
The rough cut ending not long after that, although I didn't indicate precisely when in my notes.
I thought the line was “But what about the child, Chekov?” and the shot was used with “child, Chekov” overdubbed to “tricorder.”
Neat insights. Thanks for sharing them, Harvey.
I seem to recall that the Okuda text commentary on DVD said that Kirk's original line when he takes over the Enterprise is "Stop engines" but they changed it to "Stop Engergizers" in the looping when they realized that stopping the engines makes less sense on a Starship than it does on a steam ship.
Did the version that you saw use the original line?
I seem to recall that the Okuda text commentary on DVD said that Kirk's original line when he takes over the Enterprise is "Stop engines" but they changed it to "Stop Engergizers" in the looping when they realized that stopping the engines makes less sense on a Starship than it does on a steam ship.
Did the version that you saw use the original line?
Most of this dialogue is in the novelization.
And in the shooting script. But it was cool to see that it made it past the cameras, only to be culled during the editing process.
Not sure on the engines line. I will check.
EDIT: Didn't make any indication about the line, but since I was going by memory when noting changes, I probably just missed it. The version I saw was definitely 100% production audio, so the looped line couldn't have been in it.
Not sure on the engines line. I will check.
EDIT: Didn't make any indication about the line, but since I was going by memory when noting changes, I probably just missed it. The version I saw was definitely 100% production audio, so the looped line couldn't have been in it.
UCLA. I linked to the catalog entry in this other thread: http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=5109864&postcount=22
You have to go there to view it, though.
If he met him, he was a toddler. The "over-grown boyscout" could've been a line he heard his mother or someone around at the time said about Jim Kirk.
How, exactly?
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