Did Data actually need to die?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Dylan Hoffman, Aug 12, 2017.

?

Was it necessary? Vote and comment below

  1. Yes

    13.8%
  2. No

    86.2%
  1. Dylan Hoffman

    Dylan Hoffman Ensign Red Shirt

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    We all cry a bit when we see that scene where Data dies, but was it necessary for other than plot reasons?

    Data could've brought two miniature transporter pods, not waste time looking at Picard, set his phaser to overload before the weapon was initiated and beam them both out of there?
     
  2. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There were no plot reasons for Data to die. He died because Brent Spiner didn't want to play him anymore, in part because Data isn't supposed to age.
     
  3. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Simple answer is no, if Spiner no long wished to play Data he could have refused to agree to any more contracts to do so.

    And of course in hindsight, Nemesis was the last TNG movie, so he wouldn't of had the opportunity anyway.
     
  4. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    Data and the personal transporter thing is one of the many plot holes in the film. If you're going to list all of the plot holes in Nemesis, we'll be here until Captain Picard Day.
     
  5. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good question.

    Since the point of killing off Data was apparently because Spiner no long wanted to play an "aging android that isn't supposed to age"...but Nemesis was the last TNG movie...I guess you'd have to conclude that Data didn't NEED to die.
     
  6. NinjaRaiden2005

    NinjaRaiden2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    And yet they STILL felt the need to add the bit with B4 at the end to tease a possible sequel. :brickwall:
     
  7. Paradise City

    Paradise City Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah. If Spiner was sure-sure, the B-4 character would've never have been.

    I watched the film and I just saw Data's self sacrifice as mimicking Spock in TWOK. The success of TWOK like TBOBW really haunts Trek like nothing else. They just can't help returning to these kind of plot elements.
     
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  8. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

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    Yes. It was arguably more of a blatant rip-off of Spock's TWOK demise than was nuKirk's STiD demise.
     
  9. LJS1138

    LJS1138 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Spoiler Alert for Serenity (the Firefly movie) and for Rogue One.

    Data didn't need to be blown up/killed, even though Spiner felt too old for the role (and couldn't foresee a future with CGI good enough that a dead actor could have an important role in a movie.) I also didn't cry when Data died, because the scene wasn't done well, nor did any of the writing stir me, like Spock's death in Wrath of Khan. Or when Book and Wash died in Serenity. K2SO's death in Rogue One is amazingly powerful. That's the way ya do it.

    You know which part of Nemesis I do find sad and emotional? The Data/B-4 "indefinitely" scene. It's sad for poor B-4 and sad for Data, who now has 2 brothers that he couldn't be with.
     
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  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Meh, I still think STID's is more blatant. You even have the same characters and some of the same dialogue. That said, they seem to ramp up the timetable each time. Spock dead, alive next movie. nuKirk dead, alive ten minutes later. ;)
     
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  11. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Now, they were NOT anticipating the death of the TNG movie series...

    Surely they could have kept Data's consciousness in SOMETHING, if they weren't ready to have a "new Data" that film...and have B-4 be off to the side,, and left alone if not needed
     
  12. NinjaRaiden2005

    NinjaRaiden2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I would probably accept this as many franchises leave backdoors open in case a studio wants a sequel, except all of the marketing played up that it was the final TNG film. They might have been able to do another sequel had the film not bombed opening weekend. Paramount didn't seem to care much about it either way considering they stuck it on the same release day as Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers.
     
  13. trekshark

    trekshark Commander Red Shirt

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    the whole "Data does age" thing would be easily solved by 2 seconds of dialog from Data "I've added an aging program that includes having my exterior updated to mimic the aging of my colleagues"
     
  14. LJS1138

    LJS1138 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Except that it's already mentioned in "Inheritance" (season 7) that Data has an aging program. Which is fine, and I guess that means the Romulans/Remans in Nemesis would have had to make sure B-4 aged at the same amount. So, I guess it was just that Brent Spiner didn't want to do it anymore.
     
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  15. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles will sell no wine before its time Premium Member

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    Nemesis opened a week before Two Towers, but even then it still couldn't win its weekend, getting edged out by the romantic comedy Maid in Manhattan. It's still the only Trek film that didn't manage to finish #1 on its first weekend. Hell, even Final Frontier finished #1.
     
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  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Another angle to this is whether there's any reason to think Data actually died.

    No, not a Trip Tucker -category denial movement or anything. Just an exercise in consistency. Why should we assume the events of ST:NEM would have been harmful to the health of the android, in light of what he and his brother had been through before?

    Thalaron radiation never did any harm to machinery in the movie. It was not credited with the ability to do such harm, either. Sure, it was credited with the ability to penetrate machinery somehow, implicit in it being lethal to the E-E crew even though they sat inside a sealed pressure vessel. But Data isn't more susceptible to death inside than out.

    Would a big explosion kill Data? We have seen soft Borg drones "survive" being thrown clear of an exploding spacecraft; Data is made of sterner stuff.

    Vacuum exposure wouldn't even register, of course: Lore did just fine floating in space for ages, after supposedly having been beamed out through shields and all.

    Of course, Lore's case also implies it's almost trivially easy for passersby to spot a floating android. And ST:NEM would seem to agree, with B-4 being visible across interstellar distances. But our heroes in "Datalore" failed to spot Lore's continuing existence, and Data has never been a dangerously bright beacon to enemy sensors. Perhaps a positronic radiation leak is something a Soongian android can regulate to a degree, and B-4 was set to fart real loud because Shinzon wanted Picard to find him, while Lore initially was lying low and then began attracting attention? Finally, the Bassen Rift might make it difficult to spot Data's survival post-ST:NEM.

    So no, Data did not need to die when he pushed the trigger. :devil:

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Spiner's plan for the next film was to resurrect Data using time travel.

    Data's death certainly came as a surprise to me watching Nemesis, and helped make it seem "final". Was it necessary to the plot? It seemed less tacked-on than Spock's death in Wrath of Khan.

    Of course, no death in Trek comes close to Trip's meaningless demise at the end of Enterprise.
     
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  18. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes. B4 should have also died. And they should have brought back Lore and killed him too.
     
  19. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I know I was saving my movie money for Two Towers (and watching it at a midnight opening)... I *did* eventually see Nemesis in the theater...but I guess too late.
     
  20. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    No. How did it compliment the story? Spock's sacrifice had a subtle built to it. Data's just happened.