Did CBS Steal the Tardigrade Idea?

[Krandor]

Plus Stamets is based on a real person.

The burden of proof is on the game developer and I don't see anything that supports his claims. If I were cynical I'd say this was a desperate attempt to get media attention.

And was a character that Bryan Fuller had interest in prior to discoverry. Nothing about Stamets, Mycellium Network, and the mushrooms can be claimed to be stolen from this game.

Evidence - Hannibal Season 1 episode 2.. Has a guy named stamets who is killing people as fertilizer for his mushrooms and talks about mycelium.

 

[Mudd]

I think you meant to quote @carlosp. Or maybe you're making a Firefly joke that I don't get.

Yep. Thanks.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I've long believed Fuller had wanted to work with Tony for a while and wrote Stamets specifically for him.

 

[Krandor]

I have seen comments posted elsewhere (YouTube mainly) that suggest that the Tardigrade in the game was also called 'Ripper'. I am sure they must be getting that wrong, but if true could anyone confirm this? Has anyone played the game? Tried to do my own research but found nothing regarding the name of the Tardigrade.

You can't play the game. It has not been released yet which is one of the many things that will make this case tough for the plaintiff to win.

 

[Krandor]

Oh, I don't think he can meet that proof, don't misunderstand. What I'm saying is that it's plausible that he's correct.

It is possible (though i think unlikely) that CBS stole it
It is also possible that the ideas were developed independantly.

It is up to him to prove it is one over the other and based on what I've seen he can't.

I actually do believe some of what he has said in his blog. He has been working on this game for a long time and I'm sure it means a lot to him and got frustrated when he saw the tardigrades in dsc because it was similar to what he was doing and he was worried that when he did release his game since it would be after DSC that people would assume that the idea of his game came from discovery. I can totally understand him being concerned about the effect a high profile project like DSC using Tardigrades would have on his game. None of that means things were stolen from his game though.

And during all this, I think the IP equivilant of ambulance chaser lawyers have started putting dollar signs in his head and has changed his perception from where he started off by saying "I just want to know they are not going to sue me" to being insulted that they promised not to sue him. I think somebody (likely lawyers) got to him in between and convinced him there was a bag of gold under that rainbow for him to get. Not being from the US he may not know how slimy some lawyers over here can be.


I don't think he's a bad buy but I think he's getting bad advice and now that he is talking to doomcock and company who want nothing more then to see DSC destroyed he's going to keep getting bad advice..

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Again, you're taking great pains to isolate each element from the other to make them seem generic, when as mentioned over and over and over it's the convergence of several elements that raises questions for some of us.

There is no convergence of several elements. ALL of the character 'similarities' are total bullshit that could easily be thrown at a randomly selected tv show and still be guaranteed a moderate amount of success. The black woman bears no resemblance to Burnham in any way. The 'mixed race gay couple' does not include the same races, nor bear any real visual or narrative resemblance to Stamets and Culber and does not even include the character Stamets supposedly is based on (who wasn't even publicly posted until after Rapp had been cast). And the other character happens to look kind of like Mary Wiseman. An actress, whose exact features obviously weren't based on a script.

The Tardigrade is the only legitimate point of discussion here. At all.

 

[Noname Given]

No way in hell is this going anywhere above a private settlement. CBS has way too many way too good lawyers for exactly those type of situations.

The only real question is if the settlement is good enough for him to pay for his own lawyer's cost, or if he is going to sit on them.

Depends on what the guy's lawyers agreed to. They may be of the "If you win, we get XX% of the settlement. If you loose, no legal costs beyond court costs (which could be substantial IF they go into a Discovery phase <--- Yes, that's a legal term, not a pun.)

Again what will probably happen is CBS will file a Motion To Dismiss; and based on how the Judge rules on that, they'll start talking settlement as with stuff like this, it would have to be 100% meritless (IE even a Judge thinks no Jury would buy the Plaintiff's arguments, or said arguments in the Pleading have no basis in law); and that's not the situation here - he's shown enough that I believe a Judge would put it in front of a Jury.

But yeah, unless his legal team somehow believes he could win big; once/is the trial gets past the Pleading stage, I'm sure both sides will agree to some sort of monetary settlement and move on. The Discovery phase can cost a lot to both sides, and might hamper series production if Producers/Writers/Cast have to take time to do depositions; so if the guy's smart he'll take a settlement.

The instantanious travel was possible without a tardigrade. They were never needed to make that happen. They were just needed to navigate the mycellion network and Bryan Fuller has documented interests in Stamets, Mushrooms, and Mycellium network prior to DSC.

So DSC could travel instantaneous WITHOUT a tardigrade and did. In his game, travel required a tardigrade to hug you to transport you

Where is the theft?

Well, not quite. Yes, the Tardigrade's brain was required, but the Tartigrades DNA was also compatible with the spores and both elements were needed (IE Spores and a functional Brain to direct them).

The issue the Federation had was that to make a Human compatible with the Spores to the same degree, Genetic manipulation was required <---- Which since the Eugenics was illegal; hence what Stamets did to himself was illegal; but since it was successful, and there was a war on, Starfleet preferred no charges, but said, "Hey you're it, don't try this genetic manipulation on another Human again..."

But yes, IF the game states the 'Universe Travelling' is all part of the Tardigrade itself (no outside fuel or other elements needed); that is in fact a large difference between ST: D and the game.

 

[Krandor]

Depends on what the guy's lawyers agreed to. They may be of the "If you win, we get XX% of the settlement. If you loose, no legal costs beyond court costs (which could be substantial IF they go into a Discovery phase <--- Yes, that's a legal term, not a pun.)

Again what will probably happen is CBS will file a Motion To Dismiss; and based on how the Judge rules on that, they'll start talking settlement as with stuff like this, it would have to be 100% meritless (IE even a Judge thinks no Jury would buy the Plaintiff's arguments, or said arguments in the Pleading have no basis in law); and that's not the situation here - he's shown enough that I believe a Judge would put it in front of a Jury.

But yeah, unless his legal team somehow believes he could win big; once/is the trial gets past the Pleading stage, I'm sure both sides will agree to some sort of monetary settlement and move on. The Discovery phase can cost a lot to both sides, and might hamper series production if Producers/Writers/Cast have to take time to do depositions; so if the guy's smart he'll take a settlement.

We can't tell yet if this will survive a MTD because so far we've just heard one side. The answer from CBS/Netflix is going to be very interesting. Even just hearing one side, I'm certainly not convinced but there will be several more filings from both sides before the MTD and things will be a lot clearer. CBS may have things they can present to show where the idea came from and that it wasn't from this game. We'll need to wait a bit before we know how far this is going to go.

The one interesting point from doomidiots interview is that even with the lawsuit being filed CBS has made no effort to reach out to him at all. If they just wanted this to go away they could go on and make him an offer now but they are not.

The problem for CBS if they settle is even if the settlement says they admit nothing blah blah blah with this thing having gotten exposure if they do settle it will create an assumption that they did steal the idea.

 

[Noname Given]

The problem for CBS if they settle is even if the settlement says they admit nothing blah blah blah with this thing having gotten exposure if they do settle it will create an assumption that they did steal the idea.

^^^
No, it won't. 95% of ALL Civil cases settle. It implies nothing except the fact that neither side really wants to waste further time/resources. <--- And yes, I'm serious in that all anyone looks at usually (99.99999% of the time) is the absolute bottom line/profit margin. That's how all these 'Patent Troll' companies you hear about stay in business.

A settlement infers nothing except that both parties decided (for whatever reason) it was in their best interests to settle - and they may or may not issue public statements on the matter or not (depending on the terms of said settlement).

 

[Belz...]

Great pains? It quite literally took me one sentence to explain the similarities.

The phrase has nothing to do with how many words you use, and congratulations for dodging my main point.

Your "team" on the other hand has been weaving pages and pages of ludicrous self-contradicting spins...

And what "team" is that?

 

[Belz...]

There is no convergence of several elements.

Yeah, when you ignore every element but one, you can claim that there isn't one.

ALL of the character 'similarities' are total bullshit

Wow, I'm sure what's to follow will be a reasonable analysis of the situation.

that could easily be thrown at a randomly selected tv show and still be guaranteed a moderate amount of success.

I eagerly await a list of "random" series that would fit the bill even moderately.

The 'mixed race gay couple' does not include the same races

You can't be serious.

 

[dahj]

And what "team" is that?

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, when you ignore every element but one, you can claim that there isn't one.



Wow, I'm sure what's to follow will be a reasonable analysis of the situation.



I eagerly await a list of "random" series that would fit the bill even moderately.



You can't be serious.

The Staments character wasn't revealed until after Rapp's announcement.

So he can't be a rip off.

 

[Jinn]

Yeah, when you ignore every element but one, you can claim that there isn't one.



Wow, I'm sure what's to follow will be a reasonable analysis of the situation.

Well, the similarities mentioned are

• In Tardigrades one of the main leads is black, in Discovery the lead is black.
• In Tardigrades there is a gay couple among the main characters of mixed races, as is in Discovery.
• In Tardigrades there is a woman with curly red hair, in Discovery there's a woman with curly red hair.

And of course the main claim about tardigrades.

So, the first claim looks very specific but actually isn't. I've spent some time on the creator's website and it is pretty clear that Yolanda is not the lead in the way Burnham is. She is one of a few characters that are playable (I think), but she appears to be one not as important as other characters. Burnham on the other side is very much the lead character like Kirk in TOS and not like, say, Janeway in VGR. Also, apart from being black and women they share no qualities whatsoever. The same goes for the woman with red hair, she and Tilly couldn't be more different. The similarities in hair are the only ones and that hair just seems to be Mary Wiseman's normal hair. In fact she wears it different most of the time in Discovery. The gay couple is a particularly good example of the guy being disingenous. While I admit that there's similar facial hair between Culber and Aziz he outright compares Stamets to a character who is not Aziz's boyfriend (probably because Aziz's boyfriend looks like this and they have a long distance relationship).

I eagerly await a list of "random" series that would fit the bill even moderately.

I haven't done intensive research, but every male couple on this list of gay interracial couples on TV also features a black female main character, except Brooklyn Nine-Nine which features two women of Latin American ancestry. I didn't check for red-haired women because a) it wasn't part of the original claim and b) I gotta be at a friend's place in three minutes.

Okay, have fun everyone

(ETA: Added the word "gay" to "list of interracial couples" because I forgot it earlier.)

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Yeah, when you ignore every element but one, you can claim that there isn't one.



Wow, I'm sure what's to follow will be a reasonable analysis of the situation.



I eagerly await a list of "random" series that would fit the bill even moderately.



You can't be serious.

I'm not ignoring them. They're bullshit, and I said so.

Orange is the new black has lots of black female characters and mixed race gay coupling and red haired women. Supergirl had a mixed race gay couple, and I'm 90% sure there was a black woman and a redhead in there somewhere. Glee qualifies. Probably the Wire (was there a redhead there?) True blood. How to Get Away With Murder. Six Feet Under.

But rather than trying to endlessly think of random shows off the top of my head, I can't help but notice that you're not doing anything at all to try to engage the actual relevant arguments that have been made about why the 'similarities' around the characters are laughable claims. In fact, you went out of your way to delete them and only reply to things you apparently think are easy to refute with a pithy one-liner.

If there is more there, then make the case. Why exactly is anyone supposed to care that this game has a black female character when that character bares no resemblance of any kind to Burnham? Why are we supposed to care about a purely physical resemblance between a drawing and Mary Wiseman, when Wiseman's appearances were clearly not determined by any script? Why are we supposed to care about the 'mixed race gay couple' when the characters do not have similar backgrounds to Stamets/Culber, nor do they have similar positions, nor do they look similar and *when the guy making these claims in the first place explicitly linked Stamets to some other character who isn't even part of this mixed-race couple*? And why should we care about this supposed alternate Stamets when public record shows Anthony Rapp was already cast (and Stamets therefore already written) before this character was ever even placed on the internet to be stolen in the first place?

 

[BillJ]

• In Tardigrades one of the main leads is black, in Discovery the lead is black.

• In Tardigrades there is a gay couple among the main characters of mixed races, as is in Discovery.

These will likely help the case to a degree...

In Tardigrades there is a woman with curly red hair, in Discovery there's a woman with curly red hair.

...this one is simply silly.

The creator still has to come up with evidence that the people involved in Discovery knew about the game. I really think that is the piece that decides it one way or the other. If he doesn't have that, then this is all one big coincidence.

 

[KennyB]

I saw a Tardigrade in Antman and the Wasp the other day...…….waiting for them to be sued next.

 

[cultcross]

I saw a Tardigrade in Antman and the Wasp the other day...…….waiting for them to be sued next.

Ah but did it have a black lady? That's crucial.

 

[Mudd]

I saw a Tardigrade in Antman and the Wasp the other day...…….waiting for them to be sued next.

How big was it? How far across the galaxy could it travel?

This guy lacks the resources or, apparently, the legal acumen to really pursue this case.

 

[urbandefault]

I saw a Tardigrade in Antman and the Wasp the other day...…….waiting for them to be sued next.

Ah but did it have a black lady? That's crucial.

Ghost? Hannah John-Kamen's father is Nigerian. Does that count?