Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling incestous

[Solarbaby]

I only ever saw the Female changeling as a mother figure. After all Odo was an infant when he was abandoned and left to fend for himself. Every episode she appears in she is the sole representative of the great link. And later she heads the invasion of the Alpha quadrant which suggests she is an old and established person within the link.

She appeared to act maternally towards Odo. A mother reunited with a lost child. So when she made love both as a human and a changeling I found it really odd and disturbing. I'm not sure how they procreate, if they even have parents and offspring like solids do. If they did maybe it wasn't a taboo for this relationship within families.

I just saw a mother and son making out on screen. Did anyone else feel this way watching it?

 

[DevilEyes]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

No, because IMO it's absurd to assign ideas from the human culture such as that of "incest" to a species like the Changelings/Founders. The very idea would be completely alien and incomprehensible to them. There are no such things as mothers and sons, brothers and sisters for them, they all come from the Great Link, and it's obvious that they don't procreate sexually, so they are all related in a way, and none of them are related in our sense of the word.

If there is a taboo among the Changelings, it is very likely that it is about getting involved with solids, like Odo did with Kira and earlier with the woman from "A Simple Investigation".

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

^ Although, having lived among solids and having "been raised" with their outlook on relationships and what constitutes intimacy (and in what circumstances), Odo might well be approaching the one-on-one link in a different way from the other changeling? Or at least the audience assumes so, having themselves seen Odo default to a (albeit clumsy) largely Humanoid outlook in the past? Which isn't me saying he was approaching it as if it were humanoid intimacy, but perhaps his reactions (or simply the audience's tendency to relate to him as a default humanoid) make the one-on-one linking look like a classic if cliched "seduction" in the sexual sense? So maybe that contributes to the uneasy vibes the opening poster is getting from it?

Maybe Odo's humanoid upbringing (and those prior solid relationships you mention and which we've observed in him), make some of the audience relate to his intimate moments as though he were a humanoid, not an alien form of life, and so project humanoid ideas onto a changeling form of interaction? So I suppose I can see where the OP is coming from, even though I agree with you that human ideas like incest are meaningless when considering beings as alien as the changelings.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I can see where the OP is coming from, but I never got that sense from them linking. After all, while linking is a very intimate experience for Changelings, it's not exactly the same as sex for humanoids. And, even when Odo and the Female Changeling had sex as humanoids, I never got the sense that they did it in order to "enjoy" it in a sexual manner. They did it simply to see how solids experience intimacy and how it related to linking.

IMO, asking if this was incestous is akin to saying that Odo must be gay, or bi-sexual, since he also linked with Laas.

 

[Photon]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

eeewwww, plasma-matrix semen

 

[Solarbaby]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

IMO, asking if this was incestous is akin to saying that Odo must be gay, or bi-sexual, since he also linked with Laas.

Lol that's not like I suggested at all.

When Odo links with the female changeling when DS9 is occupied by the Dominion, they spend several days linked. From the way they act after it appears they did a different type of linking to the one where he links with the great link and say hi I'm Odo etc. That's why they after this link they try it solid style.

When Odo linked with Laas it wasn't the same the link at all. I don't think we've seen Odo link to anyone else the same way he did with the female changeling when he was on his marathon "shagathon" locked away for days.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I wouldn't call it incestuous, but even if you don't consider linking sexual, there was very much a seduction aspect to her linking with him in early season 6. Odo for all his gruffness was very emotionally needy and the Female Changeling exploited that. The link also seemed to have an almost drug-like effect on him.

 

[Photon]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I only ever saw the Female changeling as a mother figure. After all Odo was an infant when he was abandoned and left to fend for himself. Every episode she appears in she is the sole representative of the great link. And later she heads the invasion of the Alpha quadrant which suggests she is an old and established person within the link.

She appeared to act maternally towards Odo. A mother reunited with a lost child. So when she made love both as a human and a changeling I found it really odd and disturbing. I'm not sure how they procreate, if they even have parents and offspring like solids do. If they did maybe it wasn't a taboo for this relationship within families.

I just saw a mother and son making out on screen. Did anyone else feel this way watching it?

Are you insinuating Odo comes from N. Alabama?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces





Anyway, I would not say incest was the word that came to mind for Odo's relationship. "Treason" was. And I think we should've seen a LOT more discussion of why Kira didn't kill him; we know Bajor has the death penalty, and there's a pretty good chance a crime like that would have been punishable by death. I don't think Kira should have forgiven him without some kind of SERIOUS acknowledgment that what he did was treason.

 

[flemm]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

Anyway, I would not say incest was the word that came to mind for Odo's relationship. "Treason" was. And I think we should've seen a LOT more discussion of why Kira didn't kill him; we know Bajor has the death penalty, and there's a pretty good chance a crime like that would have been punishable by death. I don't think Kira should have forgiven him without some kind of SERIOUS acknowledgment that what he did was treason.

I definitely agree with you that there should have been much more follow-up to this incident between Kira and Odo. The infamous "closet conversation" is probably the biggest character cop-out in the whole show and a gigantic missed opportunity.

I wouldn't expect Kira to try to prosecute Odo or seek some type of official sanction, but I would expect her to take the personal betrayal very seriously. That story should have been told, and it's a shame that it wasn't.

Oddly enough, I think it could have led quite smoothly into the romance between the two characters because, let's face it, Odo's betrayal is a huge deal to Kira partly because this is the first time she really has to confront the fact that there is more going on there than friendship in the standard sense. She realizes that Odo might not need her all that badly after all, and that hurts.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I would actually have expected Kira to just shoot Odo, myself. The DS9 universe would've taken a much darker turn, but I actually think a really compelling alternate "Sacrifice of Angels" would've had Kira executing Odo right there in the hallway and Dukat escaping to fight another day. (Maybe Ziyal would be left behind on the station in this version.)

 

[flemm]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I would actually have expected Kira to just shoot Odo, myself.

Ha, well, I don't agree, though it is a striking image. This is Odo we're talking about, somebody she cares deeply about. And it's not as if the two of them haven't encountered the possibility of betrayal before (in Necessary Evil and Things Past). She is not going to just execute him summarily in cold blood.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I don't know...I think Kira is quite capable of it, especially if her feelings had deepened to that extent, making the betrayal all the worse. We should have at least heard her say she seriously contemplated it.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I know it was stated before but Quark once pointed out just how different changelings are from humanoids. For all tense and purposes every changeling we have seen is basically one part of a greater whole, includeing Odo. So it's really not incest but masturbation, maybe?

 

[jolene_b_fan]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I don't think Odo needed to join or whatever with her at all. That seemed a bit unecessary, and weird. I wouldn't say incestuous though. Kind of made him look weak or knocked him down a few pegs from tough guy I thought.

 

[indolover]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

Whether she could actually be a mother, well we don't know. In some ways she was though. She cared for him, was older and more experienced in the ways of a Changeling, and she offered him insight into what it meant to be a Changeling.

I reckon that Changeling society is something to be explored in later series though. It would be good to see if Changelings have a religion, a culture, art, music, etc.

 

[DevilEyes]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

Whether she could actually be a mother, well we don't know. In some ways she was though. She cared for him, was older and more experienced in the ways of a Changeling, and she offered him insight into what it meant to be a Changeling.

I reckon that Changeling society is something to be explored in later series though. It would be good to see if Changelings have a religion, a culture, art, music, etc.

The only religion they seem to have is that the belief that Link is the most important thing; they can't have any other god or gods, since they made themselves gods.

I doubt that they have art or music in our sense, since they wouldn't really need it: they can express every thought and feeling directly through linking, and they don't care about making art for the other races. They even engineered the Vorta to have no aesthetic sense, and the Jem'Hadar aren't supposed to be interested in anything but fighting for the Dominion; that's probably the only thing they expect of all the other subject races as well, obedience.

The Changeling society would probably be extremely difficult if not impossible to portray on screen, as they are probably in the Link most of the time, except when they have to interact with the solids. But it would be interesting to see the mechanics of Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant - how many planets and species are under their control, how the other subject species are dealing with it and what they feel about the Dominion, etc.

 

[Marie1]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I didn't find it incestuous at all... I kinda doubt Odo was a true infant when he left, since the Female Founder seemed to need to be coached into saying he was by Odo.

And even then, I don't think that Founders are really sexual beings, it's something the ones sent out learn about if they end up with a companion at some point.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

I only ever saw the Female changeling as a mother figure. After all Odo was an infant when he was abandoned and left to fend for himself. Every episode she appears in she is the sole representative of the great link. And later she heads the invasion of the Alpha quadrant which suggests she is an old and established person within the link.

She appeared to act maternally towards Odo. A mother reunited with a lost child. So when she made love both as a human and a changeling I found it really odd and disturbing. I'm not sure how they procreate, if they even have parents and offspring like solids do. If they did maybe it wasn't a taboo for this relationship within families.

I just saw a mother and son making out on screen. Did anyone else feel this way watching it?

Yet Odo linking with the other "Male" Changling didn't seem a little gay to you?

The link isn't exactly sex, and since none of them are related to one another as humans can be related to one another.... it just doesn't relate.

Besides, if you truly considered it that way, where's your issues with the planet-wide orgy on their home world?

 

[indolover]

Re: Did any 1 find Odo's relationship with the female changeling inces

Whether she could actually be a mother, well we don't know. In some ways she was though. She cared for him, was older and more experienced in the ways of a Changeling, and she offered him insight into what it meant to be a Changeling.

I reckon that Changeling society is something to be explored in later series though. It would be good to see if Changelings have a religion, a culture, art, music, etc.

The only religion they seem to have is that the belief that Link is the most important thing; they can't have any other god or gods, since they made themselves gods.

I doubt that they have art or music in our sense, since they wouldn't really need it: they can express every thought and feeling directly through linking, and they don't care about making art for the other races. They even engineered the Vorta to have no aesthetic sense, and the Jem'Hadar aren't supposed to be interested in anything but fighting for the Dominion; that's probably the only thing they expect of all the other subject races as well, obedience.

The Changeling society would probably be extremely difficult if not impossible to portray on screen, as they are probably in the Link most of the time, except when they have to interact with the solids. But it would be interesting to see the mechanics of Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant - how many planets and species are under their control, how the other subject species are dealing with it and what they feel about the Dominion, etc.

But if most, if not all, sapient species can abstract by definition, then this would lead to art, music, etc. I agree that it may not exist as it does in solids.

It could be also that their negative experiences turned them evil, or that a desire for order was more benign (as seen in Odo) and turned bad when they formed the Dominion. hence the essential enslavement of the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar.