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Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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Not at all. 1964-1991 is my way of expressing the period I preferred and found the Star Trek I most enjoyed even with its low points. My preference is irrelevant to whether it continued to be an ongoing business interest.
It might have been ongoing, but it was business interest with diminishing returns. No movies. No TV shows. Fewer books. No nonfiction books. I don't really follow gaming or models, but I recall some setbacks in those areas as well. Fan films were pretty much the only "growth industry" in Star Trek.
 
J.J.'s Star Trek (2009) received critical praise, and took in more money than any previous Star Trek movie. Hell, in terms of financial success, and adjusted for inflation, it's domestic box office take alone was 4 times that of Star Trek: Nemesis' entire worldwide box office take.
Still doesn't mean he saved a franchise from obscurity because Star Trek was not at all obscure from 2005-2009.

What I've gathered so far from you is that:

1) Respect doesn't matter.
2) Financial success doesn't matter.
3) Critical acclaim doesn't matter.
1) Respect was mentioned in regard to two aspects. Whether JJ respected the original source materiel and whether his films could be respected by the broader audience. I say "no" to the first part, but your mileage may vary. As to the latter part respect is irrelevant in regard to whether he saved the franchise or not. TPTB couldn't care less if it was totally incoherent as long as it makes them money.

2) That's also irrelevant to whether he supposedly saved the franchise because it has to be shown to be dead which it wasn't because it continued to generate revenue and enjoy a healthy interest.

3) Refer back to 1 and 2. It could be crap, but as long it makes money TPTB couldn't care less. It still doesn't established that he resurrected something dead because it wasn't.

Star Trek was not an obscure, unfamiliar and forgotten property from 2005-2009. And those who own the rights to it continued to foster interest by introducing new merchandise and generating revenue from it. That is an ongoing business.

And it's been going, through highs and lows, since 1966-1969.

I think your post is rather disingenuous. By your standards, nothing has ever been a success, or a failure. That's not even moving the goalposts, it's believing that there is no end zone.
 
The number people I've met who "really liked" JJ's Treks but who wouldn't be bothered to watch what came before indicates to me that he did "save" the show by broadening its audience beyond the dwindling and ossified hardcore fanbase whose idea of "good" was "more of the same, please".
 
The number of people I've met who "really liked" JJ's Treks but who wouldn't be bothered to watch what came before indicates to me that he did "save" the show by broadening its audience beyond the dwindling and ossified hardcore fanbase whose idea of "good" was "more of the same, please".

Maurice wins the thread.

Topic's over, folks. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along...
 
No, let's talk about The Limousines instead. Internet Killed the Video Star. Step it up.

Don't look at me funny. Just because I didn't like the new movie doesn't mean I can't like new music. ;)
 
Aren't you contradicting yourself: "STAR TREK: 1964-1991"
Not at all. 1964-1991 is my way of expressing the period I preferred and found the Star Trek I most enjoyed even with its low points. My preference is irrelevant to whether it continued to be an ongoing business interest.

Then how would you categorize J. J. Abrams' and his creative efforts towards Star Trek in the context of your original question?
In general I drifted from Trek in the mid '90s because it was evolving in a way that didn't much speak to me anymore. When I discovered Babylon 5 that pretty much killed contemporary Trek for me. I still periodically dropped in on Trek to see what was happening because after being involved with Trek since 1970 I still liked the universe and the potential for what could be done with it even if I didn't care for what was being done with it. After early TNG and a handful of DS9 episodes Trek basically died for me personally.

That said, of course, I couldn't claim that Trek as an ongoing franchise and business interest had stopped. It certainly continued even if current Trek didn't interest me anymore. But I have to say a part of me was saddened because I wanted to enjoy new Star Trek, but TPTB weren't producing something that worked for me.

I really disliked VOY as it seemed to perpetuate everything I grew to dislike about contemporary Trek. I had a sliver of hope for ENT because in its basic concept it had potential to reinvigorate what I felt had grown stagnant. But it didn't pan out as it was (to me) essentially VOY redressed.

Now we come to JJtrek. The idea of a reboot had possibilities to get me interested in new Trek particularly as the TOS era is my favourite Star Trek. But, again, it didn't happen. In fact I found it even worse than what had proceeded it.

In context of my original question.

Abrams redrew the TOS concept and era by throwing away so much of what I loved about the original and replaced it with mindless hyperactivity without substance. He followed the pretty much established play book of summer popcorn fare while using familiar names and references. Nonetheless he was successful in catering to a generally uncritical general audience and made a lot of money even as he ditched all that made the original special. He reduced it all to cliches and caricature.

From a personal perspective he certainly didn't save Star Trek because he failed to revive what I had loved about it when it was good whether it be TOS, the films or TNG.

From a business standpoint I don't think he saved Star Trek because that would be presuming it was dead and soon to be forgotten, which it most certainly wasn't. No, it was no longer in its heyday, but its owners continued to foster and cultivate interest with fans and audiences by keeping the pre-existing series and films available and in circulation as well as introducing new tie-in merchandise that all continued to generate revenue. Star Trek was far from being a dead and forgotten property.

Was JJ's effort the right one? That depends on your perspective. Did he revive the things that had made TOS special and distinct? I say an emphatic "no." Did he generate a lot of money for the franchise? Can't be argued. Was his approach the only way that could have succeeded? No.

There is this notion that smart or well thought out and entertaining are mutually exclusive. I don't subscribe to that notion.

Star Trek at its best, whether in television or film, was well crafted while being highly entertaining. And Star Trek is but one example. Perfect? No. But you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be good or very good.

If one thinks Star Trek (and in this case particularly TOS) was never anything more than mindless escapism then JJtrek can wear those shoes. But if one thinks Star Trek did aspire and managed more often than not to be something beyond convention then, well...JJtrek doesn't cut it and largely because he embraced convention.
 
This is disingenuous. No one said Star Trek and particularly TOS lacked or eschewed action/adventure.

Didn't say it lacked it, I'm just keeping it from being placed on this pedestal of philosophical wonderment that it neither deserves, and upon which it doesn't belong. As it gets older, the Original Series is quickly becoming Nichelle Nichols' Martin Luther King story.
And I don't think anyone here (at least in this thread) made that claim.

Many people have, and many people need to stop. This franchise is a space opera and has been from the beginning; if you want philosophy, read a novel by Issac Asimov, or one by Karl Schroder (in particular this one.)
 
Didn't say it lacked it, I'm just keeping it from being placed on this pedestal of philosophical wonderment that it neither deserves, and upon which it doesn't belong. As it gets older, the Original Series is quickly becoming Nichelle Nichols' Martin Luther King story.
And I don't think anyone here (at least in this thread) made that claim.

Many people have, and many people need to stop. This franchise is a space opera and has been from the beginning; if you want philosophy, read a novel by Issac Asimov, or one by Karl Schroder (in particular this one.)
And yet Abrams himself labelled Star Trek as "too philosophical."
 
Star Trek was not an obscure, unfamiliar and forgotten property from 2005-2009.

At the risk of repeating myself: no more movies and tv series for a franchise based on those media is what we call "dead".

When I discovered Babylon 5 that pretty much killed contemporary Trek for me.

Do you mean that you liked B5 ? Because there's a lot of parallels with DS9. Those are my two favourite series.
 
Not at all. 1964-1991 is my way of expressing the period I preferred and found the Star Trek I most enjoyed even with its low points. My preference is irrelevant to whether it continued to be an ongoing business interest.

Then how would you categorize J. J. Abrams' and his creative efforts towards Star Trek in the context of your original question?
In general I drifted from Trek in the mid '90s because it was evolving in a way that didn't much speak to me anymore. When I discovered Babylon 5 that pretty much killed contemporary Trek for me. I still periodically dropped in on Trek to see what was happening because after being involved with Trek since 1970 I still liked the universe and the potential for what could be done with it even if I didn't care for what was being done with it. After early TNG and a handful of DS9 episodes Trek basically died for me personally.

That said, of course, I couldn't claim that Trek as an ongoing franchise and business interest had stopped. It certainly continued even if current Trek didn't interest me anymore. But I have to say a part of me was saddened because I wanted to enjoy new Star Trek, but TPTB weren't producing something that worked for me.

I really disliked VOY as it seemed to perpetuate everything I grew to dislike about contemporary Trek. I had a sliver of hope for ENT because in its basic concept it had potential to reinvigorate what I felt had grown stagnant. But it didn't pan out as it was (to me) essentially VOY redressed.

Now we come to JJtrek. The idea of a reboot had possibilities to get me interested in new Trek particularly as the TOS era is my favourite Star Trek. But, again, it didn't happen. In fact I found it even worse than what had proceeded it.

In context of my original question.

Abrams redrew the TOS concept and era by throwing away so much of what I loved about the original and replaced it with mindless hyperactivity without substance. He followed the pretty much established play book of summer popcorn fare while using familiar names and references. Nonetheless he was successful in catering to a generally uncritical general audience and made a lot of money even as he ditched all that made the original special. He reduced it all to cliches and caricature.

From a personal perspective he certainly didn't save Star Trek because he failed to revive what I had loved about it when it was good whether it be TOS, the films or TNG.

From a business standpoint I don't think he saved Star Trek because that would be presuming it was dead and soon to be forgotten, which it most certainly wasn't. No, it was no longer in its heyday, but its owners continued to foster and cultivate interest with fans and audiences by keeping the pre-existing series and films available and in circulation as well as introducing new tie-in merchandise that all continued to generate revenue. Star Trek was far from being a dead and forgotten property.

Was JJ's effort the right one? That depends on your perspective. Did he revive the things that had made TOS special and distinct? I say an emphatic "no." Did he generate a lot of money for the franchise? Can't be argued. Was his approach the only way that could have succeeded? No.

There is this notion that smart or well thought out and entertaining are mutually exclusive. I don't subscribe to that notion.

Star Trek at its best, whether in television or film, was well crafted while being highly entertaining. And Star Trek is but one example. Perfect? No. But you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be good or very good.

If one thinks Star Trek (and in this case particularly TOS) was never anything more than mindless escapism then JJtrek can wear those shoes. But if one thinks Star Trek did aspire and managed more often than not to be something beyond convention then, well...JJtrek doesn't cut it and largely because he embraced convention.

And I don't think anyone here (at least in this thread) made that claim.

Many people have, and many people need to stop. This franchise is a space opera and has been from the beginning; if you want philosophy, read a novel by Issac Asimov, or one by Karl Schroder (in particular this one.)
And yet Abrams himself labelled Star Trek as "too philosophical."

Someone posted this excerpt from the writer's bible for TOS here the other day. I think it's relevant to this discussion.

trekwrite_zpsbc8bf19f.png
 
At the risk of repeating myself: no more movies and tv series for a franchise based on those media is what we call "dead".
It's what you call "dead," but what I see as a rather narrow definition. It was a widely known and recognized ongoing business being maintained and generating revenue. That's not grounds for hanging up an "out of business" sign.
 
The number people I've met who "really liked" JJ's Treks but who wouldn't be bothered to watch what came before indicates to me that he did "save" the show by broadening its audience beyond the dwindling and ossified hardcore fanbase whose idea of "good" was "more of the same, please".

If you think something is good, why wouldn't you want more the same?
 
At the risk of repeating myself: no more movies and tv series for a franchise based on those media is what we call "dead".
It's what you call "dead," but what I see as a rather narrow definition.

Well it seems better than your definition, under which no franchise is ever dead.
That's an assumption on your part. If something isn't bringing in any money and is basically ignored and forgotten then it would indeed be obscure and dead. But Trek in 2005-2009 was nowhere near that state.
 
That's what I said. Under your definition, as long as someone thinks about it, it's still alive. That definition is next to useless.
 
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