Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Warped9, May 23, 2013.

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  1. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    First the observation about Abrams wasn't all that denigrating. Not nearly as nasty as "nerdrage" for example. I don't imagine for a moment the adult Abrams thinks like the adolescent Abrams. Nor can I conceive any way to read the post that way.

    Second, there was no "playing field" when Star Trek became popular. You guys are the ones who can't grasp the difference.

    Third, it is too soon to attribute staying power to Abrams' offerings.
     
  2. Conscientious Consumer

    Conscientious Consumer Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think that's true.

    Here's a partial list of science fiction television programs, in first run and in syndication in the US from 1966 up to 1977 (the year Star Wars came out).

    Lost in Space
    Land of the Giants
    The Time Tunnel
    Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea

    Thunderbirds
    Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons
    UFO
    Space: 1999

    The Prisoner
    The Avengers

    Batman

    The Six Million Dollar Man
    The Bionic Woman
    Planet of the Apes
    Most everything there was in direct competition with Star Trek in the toy department. I know; I had the toys! There were multiple opportunities to knock Star Trek off the map. Star Trek stood the test of time, because it offered much that no other show did.
     
  3. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I acknowledged that it was the first "adult" sci-fi. But it floundered in first run and had little in the way of "adult" competition.

    Star Trek was special (I loved it in 1975, I still love it today), but it was easy to stand-out when you look at the competition.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I've seen those specials on the disc. I certainly didn't get any impression of genuine respect, particularly when he flat out says he felt Trek should be more like Star Wars.

    Then I certainly didn't see much of any respect manifest onscreen either.

    And for him to say Star Trek was too philosophical, well too bad. That's part of its identity.


    Star Trek would have been forgotten without the Abrams' films? Hardly, particularly since the last incarnations weren't in the far past and with reruns galore still available. Also given that Hollywood likes to resurrect things many if not most hardly remember or even knew existed.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  5. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    At the risking of going off on a tangent, I'd argue that "The Twilight Zone" and "The Outer Limits" were probably the first adult scifi shows. But, yes, "Trek" was definitely more adult than the Irwin Allen stuff, while still having plenty of kid appeal as well. (Monsters! Space ships! Transporter beams!)

    Which raises an interesting question: Has anyone ever gotten hooked on Trek as an adult . . . or did we all discover it as kids first?

    (I know I was only seven when I was first entranced by the Salt Vampire . . . .)
     
  6. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Four years old here. :techman:
     
  7. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Which is funny because Into Darkness is one of the most philosophical Trek movies.

    And you made up your mind a long time ago that no matter what Abrams did regarding Star Trek, it was the wrong thing.
     
  8. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    I didn't notice any philosophy in STID that wasn't lifted directly from Pegasus or Insurrection.
     
  10. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw:
     
  11. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    I just deleted two paragraphs of writing that was pointless ranting.

    You be you. Enjoy what you like. Forget about letting go. If this movie is your thing, enjoy it.

    I am the one who needs to move on. I was writing to myself, I think. And I REALLY wanted this movie to be good (as opposed to kewl; I will definitely give it kewl props). People even told me to have faith in JJ, on this BBS. Fool me once shame on you . . . .
     
  12. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Anyone that was around when the 2009 movie was released knows that I was really hard on that film.

    But then I did something, I watched The Original Series again and realized these guys weren't as far off as I originally thought. Was their some nutty plot-logic in their film? Absolutely. But was it any nuttier than much of the plot-logic in TOS? Nope. The character felt like the characters I grew up watching. Which was the most important element for me.

    We tend to remember what was good about something and act like the bad didn't happen.
     
  13. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree about STID. I think one can make the case that STXI was pretty light on substance, but I don't see how one can make that case about STID.


    As for "lifting philosophy" from INSURRECTION of all things, I can only respond with :eek:
     
  14. Conscientious Consumer

    Conscientious Consumer Admiral Admiral

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    Ditto.
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm, lets see. I totally disliked the first one and the second one promised to be pretty much more of the same...which it is.

    I can take comfort in the notion that he'll be involved in only one more and then we'll see what the next incarnation is.
     
  16. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Which, if I remember correctly, you were complaining about before it ever came out. Tough to be open-minded when you've decided you hate it before ever watching it.
     
  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Everything coming out about the film was rubbing me the wrong way. Still, I get around to seeing it, twice...and it turns out to be worse than I could have imagined.

    Now, I'm hoping to avoid having this thread being derailed into a poster-on-poster baiting and bashing fest. Regardless of my not caring for the films I still contend Abrams didn't save the franchise. But anyone is free to disagree.


    WNMHGB saved the franchise in the sense that without it Star Trek would have been a missed opportunity because "The Cage" itself couldn't close the sale.

    TAS didn't save the franchise because it didn't seem to have much of an impact other than further whetting fans' appetites for live-action Star Trek.

    TMP and TWOK mightn't have saved the franchise, but they certainly gave it a kick in the pants.

    TNG didn't save the franchise but certainly did expand it. Ditto with DS9. I'd argue that VOY and ENT started to hurt the franchise at least in the general public perception if not in the eyes of those shows' fans. Except for maybe FC I'd argue the TNG films weren't helping the franchise.

    Trek was not long dormant (out of the larger public eye) before ST09. And CBS was still releasing new tie-in merchandise. So I'd say the franchise was still kicking even if it wasn't being noisy about it.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  18. King Bob!

    King Bob! Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Abrams came at the right time and made the right movie.
     
  19. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    The right movie for 2013. Which is not what I like. Sucks for me, but I'll just stop watching them and stick to things I like. Peace to all.
     
  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All those TWOK references wouldn't be well received in a TNG film.

    Just imagine in Star Trek: Nemesis, Data dies behind a glass plane in the ship's engine room, with Geordi holding Picard back on the other side because the radiation would flood the whole compartment, and Data saying "I have been, and always shall be, your friend." ? And then, Picard yells SHIIIINZOOOOON!
     
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