Dexter is F*****G INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tulin]

I have managed to pretty much avoid most spoilers(pretty hard considering almost everybody I know has seen the damned show!!!)but in three minutes I am sitting down to watch the final episode of season two. Lila has just got to the cabin and Doaks is calling out to her.

This show is INSANELY good and shows what can be done when a network decides to create a series with a beginning, middle and end and doesn't do the whole usual American thing os, "let's milk a successful show until it sucks and nobody wants to watch it anymore".

My prediction is Doaks will blurt out that Dexter is the killer and Lila will kill him because of her obsession with Dexter.

In about fifty minutes I will know if I am right.


WOW this show is friggin intense and cool!!!!!!

 

[ITL]

One of us! One of us! BWAHAHAHA!!

Welcome to the Dexter Club. You'll never be the same again....

 

[Tulin]

Okay - finished about ten minutes ago - had to do the dishes - AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!

I guessed it right - Lila took care of the Doaks problem. Was SO glad to see Dexter kill her in Paris, although how he found her I don't know. I loved how it basically wrapped up, although I have heard that's because it's the end of book two. I know lots of people are worried about S3 because it's based on original material and it may not be as good.

Oh one other thing - I really felt sorry for Maria. I wonder if her desire to proved Doaks' innocence will become an obsession in S3?

We will be watching the first ep of S3 tomorrow night. I promised myself no marathons, which was why I was so far behind everyone else I knew. We were watching an ep a week but I just HAD to finish S2 tonight, which meant a four ep marathon. I would've HATED to have seen that week by week.

Anyway - AWESOME show!!!!!

 

[Starbreaker]

Season 3 kicks it up a notch. You're going to enjoy the premiere.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I love this show too. I'm not gonna subscribe to Showtime year-round, just to see 13 episodes of Dexter, however, so I wait for the DVDs.

I guess I'll be waiting about a year to see season 3...but that's the way it goes, I guess.

Seasons 1 and 2 where great, however. Another of those premium channel shows that sets a high standard of quality that network shows can never seem to match.

Dexter may not be the first in that regard (I think The Sopranos was the first really outstanding premium channel show...although Oz was really good too), but it is certainly carrying on the tradition.

It's amazing what you can get done in 13 episodes, if you put your mind to it.

 

[Captain Craig]

A friend has just let me borrow S1 and I plan to start on it this weekend. I'll comment once I'm viewing it.
I love Julie Benz so that alone has been a selling point for me.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Masuka and of course Dexter are my favorite characters....and I didn't really mind Doakes all that much.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Okay - finished about ten minutes ago - had to do the dishes - AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!

I guessed it right - Lila took care of the Doaks problem. Was SO glad to see Dexter kill her in Paris, although how he found her I don't know. I loved how it basically wrapped up, although I have heard that's because it's the end of book two. I know lots of people are worried about S3 because it's based on original material and it may not be as good.

Season 1 was the only one based on the books, season 2 did have a couple of plot points from the second book, but nothing major as I recall.

Dexter is one of the best shows on TV, I can't wait to see more of season 3, looks like it's set to go in some interesting directions.

 

[auntiehill]

I LOVE Dexter. I can't wait to watch Season 3. I might have to watch some of it on the computer, though.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Hah, a Dexter thread I can still post in (due to watching this show on DVD - I could get Showtime I spose, but it's such an unbelievable rush to watch the whole season back to back that it's worth the agonizing wait/paranoiac spoiler avoidance.)

Yeah, it's FUCKING INCREDIBLE, isn't it. Why Michael C. Hall and Dexter didn't win their respecitve Emmys, I do not know, but next year...!!!! Don't MAKE me break out the power tools and come down to LA!!!!

Strangely enough, I found the showdown at the cabin to be a tad disappointing, by Dexter standards, it was still awesome by normal standards - I figured Doakes would die by Lila's pyromania the minute I saw him in the cage and was hoping for something else to happen, with the pyromania plotline as a clever red herring - it was the conversations between Doakes and Dexter that really sealed the deal this season. The final episode was far from my favorite - those are Morning Comes, Left Turn Ahead and especially!!!! Resistence is Futile.

Welcome to the Dexter Club.

Dexterholics Anonymous. Motto: we're sick and we don't want to be cured.

and doesn't do the whole usual American thing os, "let's milk a successful show until it sucks and nobody wants to watch it anymore".

Weee-eellll...we haven't seen whether these folks will slam on the breaks around S6 or S7, when they're really running out of ideas. But I'm not sure I'd want them to. Repetitive Dexter beats original Practically Every Other TV Show any day of the week.

My bet is that they can get four, maybe five seasons out of this premise. Last season must be Deb Finds Out the Truth.

Was SO glad to see Dexter kill her in Paris

Oy! For a minute there I thought they were going to let her get away with killing Doakes (who I respected and liked despite everything). Never been happier to see Dex do his thing. Lila was a plot device invented so that Doakes could be disposed of without Dex mussing his hands, and once Doakes was dead, I certainly did not want to see any more of her or leave open the possibility of her return. I understand why she had to be odious and off-putting (keeping the audience from feeling that Dex was being ungentlemanly in his behavior - it's a narrow line they have to toe) but I was glad to see her plotline definitively terminated.

I know lots of people are worried about S3 because it's based on original material and it may not be as good.

Having read the books, I'm not worried. I honestly think the TV writers are better than Jeff Lindsey - well maybe better is not right. They have different goals for Dexter. Lindsey is writing a genuinely creepy serial killer who is just plain fun to read about, but would probably be too off-putting for a TV series. The TV writers are trying for something more grandiose, a morality play about (I think) the eternal tension between Truth and Survival. They are using Dexter to show someone for whom those are always irreconcilable, but who has a need to reconcile them.

That's a much more interesting core to build a story around versus the fun of "playing serial killer" with the books, which is why I wonder if the TV writers could really develop the character interestingly if they veer totally off from the books.

Oh one other thing - I really felt sorry for Maria. I wonder if her desire to proved Doaks' innocence will become an obsession in S3?

Probably not S3, just because it would repeat Doakes' plotline, but yeah, it really struck me that LaGuerta has to suspect Dexter. Unless she's stupid or gives up, this plotline is inevitable, maybe for S4.

She is convinced Doakes is innocent because he was out of the area when some of the murders were committed. If you procede from the assumption that Doakes was innocent, then - where did he get the blood slides from?!? Presumably the slides will still be tested and found to be a match with the Bay Harbor Butcher victims.

But Doakes wasn't hunting the BHB. The only guy he would have been investigating was Dex. The only reason he wouldn't tell LaGuerta who he was investigating is if it was Dex. Remember that "I don't want to get you involved" comment? Because he knew that nobody would believe him, having already shown he was acting looney about Dex. If it were anyone else - why not tell LaGuerta? If she thinks about it, she should realize that there's one glaring prime suspect for being the source of the slides. (And since Dex stole the slides back from the evidence locker - maybe replacing them with faked up slides with his own blood - she could actually investigate and find further evidence of his guilt.)

And the car taken from the impound lot proves the BHB works for the Miami PD. So that narrows LaGuerta's suspects down even further. What about the BHB having a boat at one of those marinas? I don't think Doakes even had a boat.

LaGuerta may be a careerist bitch but she's smart and dogged. And the Pascal incident proves that like Dexter, she's an "ambush predator." If she suspects Dex, she won't be dumb like Doakes and tip her hand. She'll be all sweetness and lead him on till she has something she can truly nail him with - and given that he's effectively an addict, it's only a matter of time until he gives her that.

A great plotline for S4 would be for the audience to know LaGuerta is "hunting" Dexter but for it to be obvious to the audience and not at all to Dex. That would be a new twist on the S2 plotline and could help keep things fresh. And her rivalry with Deb - who would try to protect Dex, maybe even if she suspected the truth? - could also factor into the story.

 

[Tulin]

WOW!!!

Sounds like YOU should write S3 and 4!!!!

All great ideas - and you gave me the reason for just why Doakes didn't tell LaGuerta he was hunting Dexter. I was wondering that myself. Based on the above, given that the writers have brains(which their output so far shows they DO), eventually LaGuerta MUST suspect Dexter.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Sounds like YOU should write S3 and 4!!!!

Oh I wish. I actually invented my own alternative scenario for the ending in which Deb accidentally shoots Doakes after Lila tried to kill Doakes by burning down the shack - I like the irony of Dexter saving Doakes or at least trying to - but Deb shoots Doakes thinking he's threatening Dexter.

I honestly thought the writers were setting that up, with Lila as the red herring, based on Deb's berzerk behavior early in the season (pulling a gun on a kid) and after the FBI tells Dexter they think Doakes might come after him, Deb does her little "I got your back, bro" speech, even gesturing to her gun. And it would be a karmic ending for Doakes if he dies in a scenario similar to how he must have killed the Haitian guy in S1 - thinking the guy was a threat. And it would mean if Dexter ever confessed, he's be destroying Deb in the process, making her realize that she'd killed a fellow cop for no good reason instead of rescuing her brother from a serial killer.

But if I were writing this show for real, I'd be totally stumped how to end it in a way that is both satisfying and not a cop-out. I'm glad I don't have that job!

The other real problem with writing this show is how to stretch this premise without getting repetitive because there aren't all that many plotlines to pursue.

-They could use LaGuerta uncovering the truth as a plot thread for one season, and Deb's dawning realization in another season (the last one). If Deb is developed along certain lines, she might not necessarily react badly to the truth - this will take some time to develop plausibly and wouldn't really work now.

-They could also play around with the notion that Dexter could try to actually get medical or psychiatric help. Harry apparently never made the effort, so there's no way to know how much it would help - and in Shrink Wrap, just a couple sessions with a psychiatrist helped Dex a surprising amount.

-They could introduce a morally flexible character who isn't a psycho but might be able to learn the truth about Dexter and keep quiet about it and even make use of it. I don't think they have this character yet. LaGuerta had possibilities but she'd be too angry about Dexter letting Doakes take the fall for the BHB. Deb isn't there yet. Captain Matthews is certainly possible and I halfway suspect he might have known what Harry was up to anyway. Dexter is probably keeping Miami's crime rate down, and Matthews would get the credit. He might be entirely cognizant of Dexter's activies already.

And speaking of "what Harry was up to," it occurred to me that Harry adopted Dexter in the early-to-mid '70s, during which there was a huge crime wave across the country resulting in a pop culture explosion of pro-vigilante movies like Dirty Harry and Death Wish. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's interesting - did those movies inspire his plan for Dexter? Did he think he'd turn out no worse than Clint Eastwood or Charles Bronson? (I also think Harry's name must be a reference to Harry Callahan.)

Another angle, which I'll spoiler-code though this is speculation on my part (which I've gotten the feeling will come true this season):

Spoiler: S3 speculation, possible spoiler

The way Paul died was way suspicious. Major TV characters are not supposed to die off-screen. If they'd killed him for real, they'd give us some dramatization of it, if only showing the fight and Paul being stabbed. But for us to learn second-hand? I ain't buying it. Paul's cut some kind of deal to go undercover for the cops and the death was faked as part of his cover. He's coming after Dexter for sure, hopefully this season. That plotline could end up being even better than the Doakes story.

 

[broberfett]

Good show. It is awesome.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Anybody got any other ideas of stuff they could explore that they haven't already (w/o any S3 spoilers? this is speculative only).

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I'm a bit conflicted on what I want them to explore, because I'm not too terribly sure it would work on TV, but I think it's interesting none the less.
I'd like them to explore Dexter's "Dark Passenger" like exactly what it is that he feels, what drivers him, I know we get a peek inside his head with the inner monologue, but we never really seem to see what really drives him through the kill. In the books he kinda says it's like slipping in to the passenger seat while someone else takes control. But I'm not sure how you'd really show that on screen, and I'm not sure how well it would work for us sympathising with him.

The other thing I think would be interesting, is if Dexter lost that dark passenger for a while, like in book 3, leave him feeling slow, dumb, scared, and normal for a while, and how he'd react. I think that could work better on screen, but again, I'm not sure how they could pull it off.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'd like them to explore Dexter's "Dark Passenger" like exactly what it is that he feels, what drivers him, I know we get a peek inside his head with the inner monologue, but we never really seem to see what really drives him through the kill.

Dexter is like an addict getting a fix. Convincing us of Dexter's mental state comes down to Michael C. Hall's acting. He's managed to convince me utterly - there have been some pretty damn scary sequences that I personally found very convincing.

Just off the top of my head:

-The whole "tonights the night" monologue in the pilot and the icy rage when he was forcing the pedophile to confront what he'd done.

-The opening sequence in S1 (I forget which episode) where he was re-creating the slash movements of the teenage kid who killed the honor student (who he'd let go) - squicked Doakes out - it was like Dexter was in a trance.

-When they were digging up the yard at the fake Ice Truck Killer's trailer, the way he seemed personally insulted by the idea that such a schlub could be the ITK.

-The expression on his face when he got the upper hand fighting with Doakes at the freight yard. Brrr.

-In The Dark Defender, when he was investigating the crime scene. His expression was like a kid in a candy store.

-Totally losing it in the shack in S2 and screaming IT'S OVER WHEN I SAY IT'S OVER!

My impression is that the Dark Passenger is a truly amoral being who would kill anyone regardless of Harry's Code. Dexter controls the Dark Passenger by feeding him victims that fit the Code - if Dexter ever tried to stop doing that, the Dark Passenger might try to take over and threaten innocent people or even Deb, Rita and the kids.

If Dexter tried to "kill" the Dark Passenger via psychotherapy or medication, that could cause a reaction as well.

Also, if Dexter ever got seriously close to confessing or turning himself in, the Dark Passenger might try to take control out of survival instinct.

What would happen, for instance, if Dexter were locked up in prison? He'd either end up getting himself killed after attacking someone or if they put him in solitary, he'd go nuts. (Which is why I didn't think it was realistic in S2 when they implied he'd be willing to take a plea bargain to escape execution - prison should be the same as execution for him.)

I think one of these seasons, they are going to play around with the notion of the Dark Passenger getting uncontrollable.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Thanks to all the positive comments posted here, I decided to try watchign it to see how it is. So far I am mid-way threw episode 9 of Season 1.

Here are my thoughts I posted at IMDB after only being four episodes in:

At a thread in another board I post at, people kept talking about how good the show was, so I decided to catch it. I'm half-way in the the Season 1, episode 4 episode.

It's a good show -- they were right. It's well written, acted pretty decently for the most part, though I don't think any of the acting approaches "great".
It's hold's your attention well, and the musis score is decent enough (though could use some improvement). The songs however, always feel out of place, like it's trying to capture some kind of spicier modern day "Miami Vice" feel, but it just comes off "off" instead.


One thought has struck me initially: Dexter's girlfriend, she'll probably kill him one day. In fact, in one of the first episodes he mentiones how the police didn't look beyond their own state ... well, I got a feeling Dexter didn't look beyond the past he was told. She gives me that black widow husband killer vibe. How turn the tables would it be if in the last episode she kills him? ;-)

Here is a thought I had just now, that I wish they had done instead:

Spoiler: Contains SPOILERS

Instead of revealing his sister's boyfriend as the serial killer, it would have been much better if they saved that 'till later. Just think how affective it would have been after helping Dexter get away with his biological dad's ashes, showing up at the door with that creapy look saying, "Finally, we meet" -- which would have put a grin on everyone's faces 'cause then they would see all the details they missed before hand.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I'd like them to explore Dexter's "Dark Passenger" like exactly what it is that he feels, what drivers him, I know we get a peek inside his head with the inner monologue, but we never really seem to see what really drives him through the kill.

Dexter is like an addict getting a fix. Convincing us of Dexter's mental state comes down to Michael C. Hall's acting. He's managed to convince me utterly - there have been some pretty damn scary sequences that I personally found very convincing.

Just off the top of my head:

-The whole "tonights the night" monologue in the pilot and the icy rage when he was forcing the pedophile to confront what he'd done.

-The opening sequence in S1 (I forget which episode) where he was re-creating the slash movements of the teenage kid who killed the honor student (who he'd let go) - squicked Doakes out - it was like Dexter was in a trance.

-When they were digging up the yard at the fake Ice Truck Killer's trailer, the way he seemed personally insulted by the idea that such a schlub could be the ITK.

-The expression on his face when he got the upper hand fighting with Doakes at the freight yard. Brrr.

-In The Dark Defender, when he was investigating the crime scene. His expression was like a kid in a candy store.

-Totally losing it in the shack in S2 and screaming IT'S OVER WHEN I SAY IT'S OVER!

My impression is that the Dark Passenger is a truly amoral being who would kill anyone regardless of Harry's Code. Dexter controls the Dark Passenger by feeding him victims that fit the Code - if Dexter ever tried to stop doing that, the Dark Passenger might try to take over and threaten innocent people or even Deb, Rita and the kids.

If Dexter tried to "kill" the Dark Passenger via psychotherapy or medication, that could cause a reaction as well.

Also, if Dexter ever got seriously close to confessing or turning himself in, the Dark Passenger might try to take control out of survival instinct.

What would happen, for instance, if Dexter were locked up in prison? He'd either end up getting himself killed after attacking someone or if they put him in solitary, he'd go nuts. (Which is why I didn't think it was realistic in S2 when they implied he'd be willing to take a plea bargain to escape execution - prison should be the same as execution for him.)

I think one of these seasons, they are going to play around with the notion of the Dark Passenger getting uncontrollable.

I totally agree, which is why I'm not sure how well it would work to get more in to it, but I do think it would be interesting. And I think it would be just as interesting to see this version of Dexter lose his Dark Passenger for a while, and see how he copes, see how he adjusts. But as fantastic as Michael C Hall is in the role I don't think he could do Dexter as a totally ruthless, and amoral killer or slow witted and afraid without the Passenger, without turning people off the show, so I don't think it could work for the show.

 

[Tulin]

The expression on his face when he got the upper hand fighting with Doakes at the freight yard.

Yeah - that was HOT!!!!

I would have like to see to see more of Dexter and Doakes stripping down and wrestling mano a mano!!!!!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The expression on his face when he got the upper hand fighting with Doakes at the freight yard.

Yeah - that was HOT!!!!

I would have like to see to see more of Dexter and Doakes stripping down and wrestling mano a mano!!!!!

Oh so now we know why you love this show so much!

I was impressed that the producers were savvy enough to realize that they should make use of their strengths (writing and acting) in their approach the last few episodes of the Dex vs Doakes showdown - not having the characters fight literally but make it all a battle of will/wits where they are forced to do nothing but talk.

Very ironic, considering that they are both expert fighters, and our expectations were for it to be a physical fight, but if anything both characters even more expertly trained in thinking and talking their way out of a jam.

For instance, having Doakes realize that he could save himself from being killed while drugged (even tho that wasn't Dex's plan) by blurting out the fact that he knows something about Harry - that was a stroke of genius. Shows that Doakes is trained to think very fast in an emergency. And for Doakes to almost talk Dex into giving himself up was impressive. Even though he was doomed, I like the way the writers gave him a chance to show his smarts and strategic thinking skills at the end. He really was one hell of a cop.

Getting back to the "what the heck can they do in future seasons" theme, here's an idea. What if Deb were to get so angry in apprehending some really vile suspect that she kills the guy even though it wasn't technically necessary? Some ambiguous situation where she might be exonerated by the cops but not in her own mind. She's already demonstrated some loose-cannon behavior, so this sort of thing would be plausible.

The person she'd "confess" to is, of course, Dexter. He still has an underlying need for having someone in his life to replace Harry, who knows and accepts him for what he is. If he tells Deb that her actions were justified, that she shouldn't feel guilty, and starts encouraging her towards this sort of thing, he might shape her into someone who thinks of vigilantism as acceptable and good. She gained some self-confidence in S2 but is still a malleable personality. Then Dexter's problem becomes whether he is repeating what Harry did with him, and whether he is warping Deb simply for his own needs.