details on Singer's Trek pitch

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by Temis the Vorta, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, Missouri, USA
    Was there really any internal conflict among the TOS crew? Aside from McCoy occasionally making sport of Spock (and vice-versa), was there really any major discord among Kirk's crew? Both Spock and Data periodically encountered discrimination and prejudice here and there from Starfleet officers who didn't initially know them very well, but there really doesn't seem to be any more internal conflict among the TOS crew than there was among the TNG crew, IMO...
     
  2. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Ireland
    ^ You'd end up with The Borg.
     
  3. Geoff Thorne

    Geoff Thorne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Location:
    Lost Angles
    Leonard McCoy was a racist. There was periodic insubordination. Often, especially when Spock was in control of the ship or of a mission there was friction about his decision-making process that went beyond simply saying "I disagree."

    TOS was infinitely more internally combustable than was initial TNG. Because the people writing it were trying to write a TV series rather than preserve a legacy.

    This, by the way, was why I chose to do what I did with FEDERATION. I felt STAR TREK, like the Federation in the story, was a victim of its own success and had lost sight of what it meant to make compelling, immediate, relevant television.

    Nostalgia is death.

    "Keep moving forward." - Walter Disney
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  4. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    :guffaw:
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    ^^^Something funny about Unca Walt?
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Just something I found personally funny.
     
  7. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    David Gerrold has also commented on the differences between the GR of '67 and the GR of '87.

    The big difference between the two is that '67 GR was, as noted above, a working writer/producer who was just trying to find a way to tell the stories he wanted to tell and comment on the stuff that bugged him in a television environment that wasn't quite ready for that.

    Also, he had Bob Justman, Gene Coon, Dorothy Fontana, et al to keep him honest.

    By the time of TNG's development, writer/producer Gene Roddenberry had been beatified by the fans as "Gene the (mostly) Pius", so that even bringing Justman and Fontana back, with Gerrold as backup, wasn't enough to restrain the rampaging, and now slightly unhinged, ego. I suspect that even Roddenberry knew he wouldn't be able to keep the bit up for long, which was why he took Rick Berman under his wing (to head off another Herb Solow, network-spy-in-residence situation) and make sure that the person who took over would at least get the general concept right.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    A shame we didn't get the pre-deity Gene Roddenberry during the creation of The Next Generation.
     
  9. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    It's a shame we didn't get him during the creation of TMP.
     
  10. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Location:
    Ward Fowler's gofer.
    I'm just glad the Star Trek idea has been resilient enough to let other people have a shot at it.
     
  11. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, Missouri, USA
    It's fairly common by fans to praise and criticize Star Trek head honchos. Abrams will eventually be no different than Roddenberry and Berman in that regard. Even the lesser known Harve Bennett, who more or less took over Trek with TWOK, hasn't escaped this, IMO...
     
  12. Jonesy

    Jonesy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    IIRC (and this is purely from memory) Gerrold stated (in one of his rant-ish responses to a Roddenberry bio) that Berman was not "hand picked" by Roddenberry. Gerrold stated that Berman was a studio guy who was put in place by Paramount to make sure that Roddenberry's trains ran on time. Gerrold also stated that Gene did not really like Berman on a personal level, either.

    What hurt TNG, and nearly destroyed it, was the fact that Roddenberry allowed his lawyer (Maizlish) to run stuff, and piss off/alienate Fontanta, Gerrold, and Justman - amongst others I am sure. Only when Maizlish was shown the door, and a good writers room guy was put in, (Piller) that TNG took off.

    This is the kind of dirty laundry that is and never will be part of the "official" Gene Roddenberry legacy, nor a part of the Paramount PR machine.
     
  13. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Hence, GR's taking Berman under his wing, to undercut his position as the resident "studio guy" placed there to keep Crazy Gene in line (which is what Herb Solow job was, to keep an eye on Roddenberry for the network; he was getting paychecks from both Desilu and NBC, after all).

    Good point about the blood sucking lawyer. Add in sycophants like Richard Arnold, and you wind up with a very untenable situation.
     
  14. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Herb Solow, "network-spy-in-residence?" I admit, I'm intrigued by this turn of phrase. Care to elaborate?
     
  15. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Solow was Roddenberry's boss. Roddenberry didn't like having bosses.
     
  16. Psion

    Psion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Location:
    Lat: 40.1630936 Lon: -75.1183777
    I feel the same way about moderators and the IRS.
     
  17. Geoff Thorne

    Geoff Thorne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Location:
    Lost Angles
    I don't know anything about the pre-Piller era. I do know, once he was in the big chair, things not only ran smoothly but TNG entered into its greatest period of creative success, far outstripping its predecessor.

    Michael Piller was a writer's writer. His influence on STAR TREK cannot be overstated. If not for that influence NONE of the subsequent series or films would have existed because the success of TNG would not have existed to allow for them.
     
  18. xortex

    xortex Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    He really was an amazingly talented and generous writer and trailblazer.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    You can debate the critical success of the series under Micheal Piller, but wasn't The Next Generation a ratings success prior to him coming aboard?
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    TNG was a ratings success from the beginning, yes.