Destroying Tornadoes

[noknowes]

Dude, come down to TNZ, your theories are worthy of discussion down there. We... await.

I agree. You should try the TNZ forum noknowes. If you don't know how to access the forum, click here, enable the option, and press the join button.

There you will meet plenty of intelligent open minded people who will be happy to hear your ideas.

Holy shit, even the moderator...

The moderator clearly demonstrates intellectual depth coupled with historical foresight.She clearly lives up to her name that she has a soul and a wider perspective indicating a breadth and depth of education but more importantly wisdom for which I can only applaud such a solomanic luminary.

History.

History in particular Scientific history demonstrates that given time that which has been thought as an possible extrapolation of current theory or hypothesis will eventually come to pass in one form or another.

I do not believe I need to give a particular examples as those who posses breadth and intellectual depth will know what I mean, while those who do not cannot be helped as they clearly have shown an entrenched position which they have dug for themselves demonstrating a perverse illogic which casts them in a poor and ill mannered light caused largely by a need to posture for their friends and to obtain the kudos which their emaciated ego clearly craves.

 

[Australis]

In TNZ... this will end well.

 

[Amaris]

I agree. You should try the TNZ forum noknowes. If you don't know how to access the forum, click here, enable the option, and press the join button.

There you will meet plenty of intelligent open minded people who will be happy to hear your ideas.

Holy shit, even the moderator...

The moderator clearly demonstrates intellectual depth coupled with historical foresight.She clearly lives up to her name that she has a soul and a wider perspective indicating a breadth and depth of education but more importantly wisdom for which I can only applaud such a solomanic luminary.

History.

History in particular Scientific history demonstrates that given time that which has been thought as an possible extrapolation of current theory or hypothesis will eventually come to pass in one form or another.

I do not believe I need to give a particular examples as those who posses breadth and intellectual depth will know what I mean, while those who do not cannot be helped as they clearly have shown an entrenched position which they have dug for themselves demonstrating a perverse illogic which casts them in a poor and ill mannered light caused largely by a need to posture for their friends and to obtain the kudos which their emaciated ego clearly craves.

So in other words you have no verifiable data, just assumptions.
Well, you know what we get when we assume.

J.

 

[noknowes]

Holy shit, even the moderator...

The moderator clearly demonstrates intellectual depth coupled with historical foresight.She clearly lives up to her name that she has a soul and a wider perspective indicating a breadth and depth of education but more importantly wisdom for which I can only applaud such a solomanic luminary.

History.

History in particular Scientific history demonstrates that given time that which has been thought as an possible extrapolation of current theory or hypothesis will eventually come to pass in one form or another.

I do not believe I need to give a particular examples as those who posses breadth and intellectual depth will know what I mean, while those who do not cannot be helped as they clearly have shown an entrenched position which they have dug for themselves demonstrating a perverse illogic which casts them in a poor and ill mannered light caused largely by a need to posture for their friends and to obtain the kudos which their emaciated ego clearly craves.

So in other words you have no verifiable data, just assumptions.
Well, you know what we get when we assume.

J.

An experiment was done in which artificial whirlpools were created in a tank.This is done by spinning a slightly bend ink rod from a pen attached to a toy motor and allowing current into the motor.The effect was very similar to a tornado in water.

You can easily replicate this using a battery operated cappuncino maker and filling it with water.The spinning rod will create a tornado look alike.

The water tank was lined with 2 submerged acoustic transducers.Different frequencies from a sound generator software via from a pc soundcard output were fed to the transducers.This water experiment allowed the effects to be visible.The effects on the artificial tornadoes were seen cause visible disruption to the flow.

You can do the experiment in your bathtub if you wish.You can use 2 cheap loudspeakers wrapped in poly bags and immersed in the water.The output from your sound card will send various waveforms to the speakers.

The waveforms will be visible in the water!

REMEMBER YOUR HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS EXPERIMENTS USING A TRAY FILLED WITH WATER AND HOW WAVES INTERFERED WITH ONE ANOTHER AS THEY PASSED THROUGH SLITS?

 

[Ptrope]

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying respect "nature".

it has no existence.their is no such thing.

it is simply the generic blind forces of chance drive by the laws of physics.

If you agree that these forces are driven by the laws of physics, you cannot also claim they are "blind forces of chance" - these things happen because of very specific and precise conditions, neither random nor irreproduceable. It's called an ecosystem for very good reasons - everything within it is interconnected and interdependent, and trying to destroy any part of it, either through negligence or gross brutality, has to have consequences.

we don't need these other animals.survival of the fittest determines if they stay or go.

And once you eliminate the sad, deluded bastards, and discover that you've tampered yet further with the ecosystem, and other animals or plants start dying out that you had planned to eat to survive, who will be the fittest? The ecosystem is self-balancing, eventually, and if you prefer to view it as a blind, indifferent process, then you've got to accept that Man has no privileged position nor right to existence. If we can't adapt to the environment, even one we "make," we're just as 'out the door' as the tiger and every other animal we used our guns on. No shots fired.

As for your last post - you do realize that as the storm system expands, the energy it contains, and thus the energy needed to counter it, expands exponentially, right? Something you can do easily in a small tank is nowhere near the same as doing it on the scale of an actual, uncontained tornado. That's kind of like saying because an ant can pick up several times its own weight, and it's small, we can do something similar because we're so much bigger. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[Amaris]

The moderator clearly demonstrates intellectual depth coupled with historical foresight.She clearly lives up to her name that she has a soul and a wider perspective indicating a breadth and depth of education but more importantly wisdom for which I can only applaud such a solomanic luminary.

History.

History in particular Scientific history demonstrates that given time that which has been thought as an possible extrapolation of current theory or hypothesis will eventually come to pass in one form or another.

I do not believe I need to give a particular examples as those who posses breadth and intellectual depth will know what I mean, while those who do not cannot be helped as they clearly have shown an entrenched position which they have dug for themselves demonstrating a perverse illogic which casts them in a poor and ill mannered light caused largely by a need to posture for their friends and to obtain the kudos which their emaciated ego clearly craves.

So in other words you have no verifiable data, just assumptions.
Well, you know what we get when we assume.

J.

An experiment was done in which artificial whirlpools were created in a tank.This is done by spinning a slightly bend ink rod from a pen attached to a toy motor and allowing current into the motor.The effect was very similar to a tornado in water.

You can easily replicate this using a battery operated cappuncino maker and filling it with water.The spinning rod will create a tornado look alike.

The water tank was lined with 2 submerged acoustic transducers.Different frequencies from a sound generator software via from a pc soundcard output were fed to the transducers.This water experiment allowed the effects to be visible.The effects on the artificial tornadoes were seen cause visible disruption to the flow.

You can do the experiment in your bathtub if you wish.You can use 2 cheap loudspeakers wrapped in poly bags and immersed in the water.The output from your sound card will send various waveforms to the speakers.

The waveforms will be visible in the water!

REMEMBER YOUR HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS EXPERIMENTS USING A TRAY FILLED WITH WATER AND HOW WAVES INTERFERED WITH ONE ANOTHER AS THEY PASSED THROUGH SLITS?

You cannot honestly expect me or anyone else to accept that as verifiable data.


J.

 

[Michael_One]

One major parameter in the bathtub experiment, compared to the real world, is that of scale: if you tried this experiment in a swimming pool with a vortex powered by a jet turbine I imagine the scale speakers would be ipod earbuds. Or perhaps the little speakers used in hearing aids.

This is, of course, ignoring that water is about a thousand times denser than air. There are other differences as well, such as viscosity. Then there's the effects of the tub walls, tornadoes operate in much larger reservoirs

If you really want to use concert speakers to disrupt a tornado, may I suggest the ones used by "Disaster Area" in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? This band is described as the loudest noise of all time and the fans sit in bomb shelters twenty miles from the stage...

If noknowes really wants to think big speakers will stop tornadoes, why not let him ( or her, could be a her ) think that way? He / she isn't hurting anyone with this fantasy.

 

[Amaris]

One major parameter in the bathtub experiment, compared to the real world, is that of scale: if you tried this experiment in a swimming pool with a vortex powered by a jet turbine I imagine the scale speakers would be ipod earbuds. Or perhaps the little speakers used in hearing aids.

This is, of course, ignoring that water is about a thousand times denser than air. There are other differences as well, such as viscosity. Then there's the effects of the tub walls, tornadoes operate in much larger reservoirs

If you really want to use concert speakers to disrupt a tornado, may I suggest the ones used by "Disaster Area" in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? This band is described as the loudest noise of all time and the fans sit in bomb shelters twenty miles from the stage...

If noknowes really wants to think big speakers will stop tornadoes, why not let him ( or her, could be a her ) think that way? He / she isn't hurting anyone with this fantasy.

I think it's the assertion that he is right and we are wrong, even though this Science & Technology forum advocates backing up claims with verifiable data and he has not, instead he says that we wouldn't understand it. If this were Miscellaneous or TNZ, yeah, I'd agree, but it's not. There is a standard in this particular forum that one backs up one's hypotheses and theories with credible data, not conjectural and anecdotal "evidence". Note his posts, and you can see where he dodges any relevant question that wants specifics.

J.

 

[Michael_One]

Good point, J.Allen.

I work as a researcher in a market research firm and there are kooks out there who think I'm a physicist... I get a lot of crank emails on over the top wierd science projects.

One of my favorites is the one that asserts the Men in Black, the UFOs, the South American Nazis and the Trilateral Commission are kidnapping thousands of children each year and sending them back to WW 2 via the Philadelphia Experiment to fight for the Germans. Oh, and the secret saucer base is right off California Highway 58 in the hills outside Bakersfield.

Then there's the one I got in April 2008 that claimed a conspiracy of banks were gonna stage a depression in September 2008 and pull off a financial coup d'etat...

In other words, being told I'm wrong and these kooks are right and there's a vast conspiracy against them is something that happens about three times a week in my life. I think some of these guys don't believe their stuff and just enjoy 'pushing people's buttons'. One reason I think that is the guy who sends contradictory stuff, often in the same week.

Back to tornadoes...

Using speakers to disrupt vortices in a bathtub proves you can use big speakers to disrupt tornadoes... you just need banks of terawatt speakers putting out a half million decibels. There's only a few things stopping this plan, among them the materials properties ( you'd destroy the speakers waaaay before you could put out that much energy ). Unlike Q in that ep of Next Gen, we can't change inconvenient physical laws.

Hmmm... if I can shoot a bullet a mile into the air with a deer rifle, a gun 238,000 times bigger will shoot a bullet all the way to the Moon!! I should get someone to build one for me, I'm not gonna do it myself.

 

[Amaris]

Good point, J.Allen.

I work as a researcher in a market research firm and there are kooks out there who think I'm a physicist... I get a lot of crank emails on over the top wierd science projects.

One of my favorites is the one that asserts the Men in Black, the UFOs, the South American Nazis and the Trilateral Commission are kidnapping thousands of children each year and sending them back to WW 2 via the Philadelphia Experiment to fight for the Germans. Oh, and the secret saucer base is right off California Highway 58 in the hills outside Bakersfield.

Then there's the one I got in April 2008 that claimed a conspiracy of banks were gonna stage a depression in September 2008 and pull off a financial coup d'etat...

In other words, being told I'm wrong and these kooks are right and there's a vast conspiracy against them is something that happens about three times a week in my life. I think some of these guys don't believe their stuff and just enjoy 'pushing people's buttons'. One reason I think that is the guy who sends contradictory stuff, often in the same week.

I'm sure that's just what you need, too. You'd think someone would make better use of their time than by wasting yours. Ah well, it takes all kinds.

Back to tornadoes...

Using speakers to disrupt vortices in a bathtub proves you can use big speakers to disrupt tornadoes... you just need banks of terawatt speakers putting out a half million decibels. There's only a few things stopping this plan, among them the materials properties ( you'd destroy the speakers waaaay before you could put out that much energy ). Unlike Q in that ep of Next Gen, we can't change inconvenient physical laws.

Hmmm... if I can shoot a bullet a mile into the air with a deer rifle, a gun 238,000 times bigger will shoot a bullet all the way to the Moon!! I should get someone to build one for me, I'm not gonna do it myself.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

J.

 

[Australis]

One of my favorites is the one that asserts the Men in Black, the UFOs, the South American Nazis and the Trilateral Commission are kidnapping thousands of children each year and sending them back to WW 2 via the Philadelphia Experiment to fight for the Germans. Oh, and the secret saucer base is right off California Highway 58 in the hills outside Bakersfield.

You couldn't turn that into a novel - no publisher would print it. Too unbelievable.

And where are these thousands of kids that should be wandering round WW2 battlelines? Tell him you'll believe him once you have photographic evidence of a missing contemporary child photographed in 1944.

 

[noknowes]

Good point, J.Allen.

I work as a researcher in a market research firm ??




Back to tornadoes...

Using speakers to disrupt vortices in a bathtub proves you can use big speakers to disrupt tornadoes... you just need banks of terawatt speakers putting out a half million decibels. There's only a few things stopping this plan, among them the materials properties ( you'd destroy the speakers waaaay before you could put out that much energy ). Unlike Q in that ep of Next Gen, we can't change inconvenient physical laws.

I am afraid you are in error.

A car or a truck travelling at 70 mph can be stopped simply by expending a few joules of energy.

i move my foot to the brake and the car or truck stops. no need for terrawatts of energy.

In a similar way the correct application of small amounts of directed energy at a critical part of th tornado will cause it to collapse.

A magnifying glass can set paper on fire at the correct focus.

a parabolic dish can receive dilute energy and focus it or it can radiate energy to a specific area.

Do you see now?

Do you understand?

 

[Maurice]

I am afraid you are in error.

A car or a truck travelling at 70 mph can be stopped simply by expending a few joules of energy.

i move my foot to the brake and the car or truck stops. no need for terrawatts of energy.

The "few joules" you mentioned would only succeed in moving your foot to the brake pedal. Maybe YOU expend only a few joules, but the overall energy in the system required to stop the truck is vastly higher. Your example is like saying the energy in an atomic blast is related to the amount of energy it takes to push the firing button.

One joule in everyday life is approximately the energy required to lift a small apple one meter straight up. A 2000 f-250 4-door with 7.3L Powerstroke 4x4 is about 7,300 lbs, whereas a small apple is about 4 ounces or about 1/22,000th the weight of that truck. A few joules? Bah.

 

[Australis]

noknowes, if you don't know the difference between you expending the energy to stop a vehicle and the real energy being expended in terms of the brakes and so on, then there is no way we can have any kind of coherent discussion.

 

[noknowes]

noknowes, if you don't know the difference between you expending the energy to stop a vehicle and the real energy being expended in terms of the brakes and so on, then there is no way we can have any kind of coherent discussion.

Both you and ds9sega are wrong.The moving car already possesses energy.When you slow it down that is converted to heat.No energy is expended to stop it except the few joules to move my foot.

You have made a serious error which show your very poor understanding of
simple physics.

 

[FordSVT]

^OK, please someone shut this fucker up. He's just here to push buttons. The tornado shit is way out there but there is no way anyone with a brain can be stupid enough to believe that no energy is expended to stop a moving vehicle because the brakes release heat as a byproduct. And then he tells us WE have a poor understanding of physics. And his sig is "Even when I'm wrong I am still right"? WTF? This is allowed now? In this forum? I mean, I know this thread has been an entertaining interlude for us all but seriously....

 

[Jadzia]

If you don't want to see a particular user's posts, you're free to use your ignore feature FordSVT.

 

[Silvercrest]

You have made a serious error which show your very poor understanding of simple physics.

You've been making that kind of error all along, and now we know all about your poor understanding of physics, biology, history, and just about everything else.

You cannot or will not give us any hard data about your hypothesis. And I mean factual data. A rough visual analogy based on something you see in your bathtub is not hard data. It's like saying that the existence of Pac-Man proves you can build a positronic brain.

You haven't convinced anyone that you're right. You refuse to listen to anyone who suggests you're wrong. So why are you even here?

It comes down to this: Either 1) everyone else is wrong and you're right, or 2) you're wrong. And if you honestly believe that we're all wrong, then I guess you know more than everyone else in the world. And you don't need our help.

So, to quote Alpha Geek, Go do it. Build one. Prove us wrong. The whole world will eat their hats to honor your brilliance. Good luck!

 

[Australis]

I've been looking for an excuse to post this, I think this thread is ENTIRELY appropriate:

 

[Australis]

Oh yeah, btw, noknowes. look up inertia.