Destiny - exceed or not?

[Elemental]

^What do you mean? They all managed to escape harm.

Erm, no. In fact, if I recall correctly, only a relatively few people managed to make it off Deneva. In particular, Jasminder's entire family was apparently killed, as was Tuvok's son and daughter-in-law.

Am I getting my characters mixed up? Who was it who warned her husband and children ahead of time to leave the planet and who she was reunited with in the end? I confess to still getting the two new TNG human females confused sometimes.

 

[Claudia]

^ Wasn't that Kadohata?

 

[JAG]

Yes, that was Kadohata. Jasminder lost everyone.

 

[Sci]

^What do you mean? They all managed to escape harm.

Erm, no. In fact, if I recall correctly, only a relatively few people managed to make it off Deneva. In particular, Jasminder's entire family was apparently killed, as was Tuvok's son and daughter-in-law.

Am I getting my characters mixed up? Who was it who warned her husband and children ahead of time to leave the planet and who she was reunited with in the end? I confess to still getting the two new TNG human females confused sometimes.

That was Miranda Kadohata, who successfully warned her family off of Cestus III. Jasminder lost everyone. There was a big scene with her and Worf returning to Deneva to plant a new tree in replacement of the one she had planted with her father as a small child. It was very touching; I'm really surprised you could forget something so moving.

Of course, I'm biased, because Jasminder is my favorite of the new characters and I'm totally shipping Worf/Jamsinder, so....

 

[Christopher]

Remember that Deneva was the homeworld of Jasminder Choudhury. As far as she and her colleagues are concerned, the (apparent) death of her entire family was pretty radical.

And I still have the e-mail where Dave first thought of that. In the original GTTS draft, I described her with a Punjabi background, but Dave wanted something a little less obvious. In his e-mail, he threw out a couple of suggestions for where she might be from, including Deneva, and then realized that if she were from Deneva, his planned destruction of that world would be devastating to her. Then he said "Hey, I'm really starting to like the sound of that."

So I kinda sorta gave him the idea, in the sense that I gave him the impetus to come up with a better idea than mine...

 

[Elemental]

Erm, no. In fact, if I recall correctly, only a relatively few people managed to make it off Deneva. In particular, Jasminder's entire family was apparently killed, as was Tuvok's son and daughter-in-law.

Am I getting my characters mixed up? Who was it who warned her husband and children ahead of time to leave the planet and who she was reunited with in the end? I confess to still getting the two new TNG human females confused sometimes.

That was Miranda Kadohata, who successfully warned her family off of Cestus III. Jasminder lost everyone. There was a big scene with her and Worf returning to Deneva to plant a new tree in replacement of the one she had planted with her father as a small child. It was very touching; I'm really surprised you could forget something so moving.

Of course, I'm biased, because Jasminder is my favorite of the new characters and I'm totally shipping Worf/Jamsinder, so....

Geez, I really have been getting the 2 confused. I remembered that scene (very well done, btw), and remember her talking about the old tree back at home but had thought that it was the same one of them as who warned their family away.

 

[Elemental]

he threw out a couple of suggestions for where she might be from, including Deneva, and then realized that if she were from Deneva, his planned destruction of that world would be devastating to her. Then he said "Hey, I'm really starting to like the sound of that."

That sick morbid bastard.

 

[Man of Steel]

Enjoyed the book but it seemed like it was dragging at points and it took awhile to get to the meat of the story. I'm not sure Destiny required 3 books to tell the story but I also don't know why we had to wait till LS to get to the origins of the Borg.

Another gripe of mine is didn't Garylock return to the Columbia after the mutiny? If so, how the hell did he end up in the B.C.E time frame?

Book two was more of a Hernandez and crew story which I liked because it was emotional and personal though I think "torturing" one of her crew members to try to save them was meant well but I had some problem believing it when the issue of is it moral or ethicial to do so?

Also, why wasn't there a picture of what the Calier look like on any of the covers? Why do all three feature Hernandez?

 

[Sci]

Enjoyed the book but it seemed like it was dragging at points and it took awhile to get to the meat of the story. I'm not sure Destiny required 3 books to tell the story but I also don't know why we had to wait till LS to get to the origins of the Borg.

It seems patently obvious to me that you can't reveal the Big Secret about the Borg's origins earlier than the final book. And furthermore, waiting until Book III to reveal their origins creates thematic unity, brings things about to a full circle.

And count me in as someone who DOES think that it needed three books to tell the full story. In fact, there are a lot of areas where, to me, things felt RUSHED.

Another gripe of mine is didn't Garylock return to the Columbia after the mutiny?

You're confusing Graylock with Mayor Foyle or Lieutenant Yacavino. Graylock never returned to Columbia after landing on Erigol.

Book two was more of a Hernandez and crew story which I liked because it was emotional and personal though I think "torturing" one of her crew members to try to save them was meant well but I had some problem believing it when the issue of is it moral or ethicial to do so?

I'm not trying to be rude, but that's a major run-on sentence, and I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that you had a problem believing that Hernandez would allow the Caeliar to try to "merge" with Valerian in an attempt to save her life? Why?

Also, why wasn't there a picture of what the Calier look like on any of the covers? Why do all three feature Hernandez?

I thought it was obvious: All three feature Hernandez because she's sorta the most pivotal link in the chain between Humanity, the Caeliar, and the Borg. As for the Caeliar -- could anything they show really match your own imagination?

 

[Man of Steel]

Enjoyed the book but it seemed like it was dragging at points and it took awhile to get to the meat of the story. I'm not sure Destiny required 3 books to tell the story but I also don't know why we had to wait till LS to get to the origins of the Borg.

It seems patently obvious to me that you can't reveal the Big Secret about the Borg's origins earlier than the final book. And furthermore, waiting until Book III to reveal their origins creates thematic unity, brings things about to a full circle.

And count me in as someone who DOES think that it needed three books to tell the full story. In fact, there are a lot of areas where, to me, things felt RUSHED.

Another gripe of mine is didn't Garylock return to the Columbia after the mutiny?

You're confusing Graylock with Mayor Foyle or Lieutenant Yacavino. Graylock never returned to Columbia after landing on Erigol.

Book two was more of a Hernandez and crew story which I liked because it was emotional and personal though I think "torturing" one of her crew members to try to save them was meant well but I had some problem believing it when the issue of is it moral or ethicial to do so?

I'm not trying to be rude, but that's a major run-on sentence, and I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that you had a problem believing that Hernandez would allow the Caeliar to try to "merge" with Valerian in an attempt to save her life? Why?

Also, why wasn't there a picture of what the Calier look like on any of the covers? Why do all three feature Hernandez?

I thought it was obvious: All three feature Hernandez because she's sorta the most pivotal link in the chain between Humanity, the Caeliar, and the Borg. As for the Caeliar -- could anything they show really match your own imagination?

It seems patently obvious to me that you can't reveal the Big Secret about the Borg's origins earlier than the final book. And furthermore, waiting until Book III to reveal their origins creates thematic unity, brings things about to a full circle.

And count me in as someone who DOES think that it needed three books to tell the full story. In fact, there are a lot of areas where, to me, things felt RUSHED.
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I agree with you but I do feel that hints could have been given throughout the trilogy.

You're confusing Graylock with Mayor Foyle or Lieutenant Yacavino. Graylock never returned to Columbia after landing on Erigol.
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Possible. Then how did they end up so early in time away from Hernandez and crew?

I'm not trying to be rude, but that's a major run-on sentence, and I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that you had a problem believing that Hernandez would allow the Caeliar to try to "merge" with Valerian in an attempt to save her life? Why?
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Yes. I'm saying I had a problem with this because why would a Starfleet Officer, allow an alien species to do something like that when the aliens themselves have no clue if it may or may not work? I understand that the Calier are compassioante but couldn't the Quoroum make an exception and allowed her to go back to Columbia to be treated? It seems like Hernandez had to be forced to trust them. And with such advanced technology, wouldn't it have been easier to just do a memory wipe so she has no memory of the Calier? I understand why Mack did it this way I just think it could have been executed better.

I thought it was obvious: All three feature Hernandez because she's sorta the most pivotal link in the chain between Humanity, the Caeliar, and the Borg. As for the Caeliar -- could anything they show really match your own imagination?
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I have no complaint about Hernandez on the cover. I agree with that. And I have a pretty good imagination but it still would have been nice to see what they look like. Although having the captains on the cover was maybe a bit to much.

 

[Sci]

I agree with you but I do feel that hints could have been given throughout the trilogy.

I'm pretty sure they were. You didn't immediately think "nanoprobes" upon hearing about the composition of the Caeliar bodies? I did. To say nothing of the attempted fusion of Valerian and Hernandez in Book II and the idea of joining the Caeliar gestalt, which immediately sounded to me like something akin to joining the Collective.

You're confusing Graylock with Mayor Foyle or Lieutenant Yacavino. Graylock never returned to Columbia after landing on Erigol.

Possible. Then how did they end up so early in time away from Hernandez and crew?

Your memory has very fundamentally failed you, because this was explained very, very clearly in Book I.

Graylock was part of the mutiny that managed to take several Caeliar scientists in the city-ship of Mantilis hostage by threatening to kill Kiona Thayer. Foyle and Yacavino beamed back aboard Columbia along with a Caeliar named Artithon. Then the Big Kaboom happened and Erigol got all 'splody. The escaping city-ships entered some of the various subspace tunnels through space and time that had opened up in the area, as did Columbia. Columbia's vaporized all organic life and sent it to the Gamma Quadrant, where it crash-landed in a desert on a planet. The city-ship of Axion ended up in the Beta Quadrant in the 1500s CE. And the city-ship of Mantilis, which Graylock and the MACOs were on (and which Graylock had never left during the mutiny), and which several Caeliar scientists were on, was sent to the Delta Quadrant of almost seven thousand years in the past. The rest of the Caeliar residents of Mantilis died before it crash-landed on that planet in the Delta Quadrant (called Arehaz by the natives).

I'm not trying to be rude, but that's a major run-on sentence, and I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that you had a problem believing that Hernandez would allow the Caeliar to try to "merge" with Valerian in an attempt to save her life? Why?

Yes. I'm saying I had a problem with this because why would a Starfleet Officer, allow an alien species to do something like that when the aliens themselves have no clue if it may or may not work?

It was explained very clearly in Book II that Hernandez did this because she was desperate to find a way to save Valerian, because she felt so fundamentally guilty about the deaths of the rest of her crew. It wasn't a rational decision, but her motivations were made quite clear.

I understand that the Calier are compassioante but couldn't the Quoroum make an exception and allowed her to go back to Columbia to be treated? It seems like Hernandez had to be forced to trust them. And with such advanced technology, wouldn't it have been easier to just do a memory wipe so she has no memory of the Calier? I understand why Mack did it this way I just think it could have been executed better.

Erm, you're COMPLETELY confusing the plots of Books I and II. Columbia's crew had already been killed and the ship lost to Hernandez by the time she allowed the Caeliar to attempt to merge Valerian into the gestalt. Axion, meanwhile, had been sent back in time to the 16th Century Beta Quadrant.

As for why the Caeliar didn't perform a memory wipe, they explained that in Book I: The Caeliar believed that the humans would detect the gaps in their memories and records and come back to investigate.

I thought it was obvious: All three feature Hernandez because she's sorta the most pivotal link in the chain between Humanity, the Caeliar, and the Borg. As for the Caeliar -- could anything they show really match your own imagination?

I have no complaint about Hernandez on the cover. I agree with that. And I have a pretty good imagination but it still would have been nice to see what they look like. Although having the captains on the cover was maybe a bit to much.

I'm not sure how you can say having the captains on the cover was too much when they were the central characters...

 

[Christopher]

As for why the Caeliar didn't perform a memory wipe, they explained that in Book I: The Caeliar believed that the humans would detect the gaps in their memories and records and come back to investigate.

Which I believe was an ironic reference on Dave's part to the plot of TNG: "Clues."

 

[Elemental]

As for why the Caeliar didn't perform a memory wipe, they explained that in Book I: The Caeliar believed that the humans would detect the gaps in their memories and records and come back to investigate.

Which I believe was an ironic reference on Dave's part to the plot of TNG: "Clues."

That was what I was reminded of as well. Having the precident was really the only logical answer for why this wouldn't have been a good solution.

 

[RikerLover]

It met my expectations. I was expecting an epic trilogy and got it. I hate to admit it but I sniffed out that somehow the Borg and Caeliar were related - the Gestalt was a big giveaway for me. I also had a gut feeling that Deanna would be fine. David couldn't be that malicious as to kill Deanna off could he?

The scene with Riker and Picard in Lost Souls wasn't quite the Picard - Lily scene in First Contact but it was very good. I could picture Jonathan Frakes and Patrick Stewart doing that scene on screen. I also like the way Picard showed his emotions for a change.

I was never a huge Ezri fan during DS9 but started to like her in the trilogy.

I'll have to start working on the TNG Relaunch novels to meet some of the Enterprise's new crew members. I liked Jasminder and Kahdota in particular.

 

[Saumer]

I only finished Lost Souls the other day, so I've had a few days to think about the three books as a trilogy (although I now plan on reading them back to back).

Overall, it exceeded expectations for me. It was billed as a galaxy altering, epic trilogy with massive repercussions and I'm glad to say, that's what I got from it. To often with these things, the hype and far outweigh the delivery, but David Mack got it spot on IMO.

There was the right mix of characters and enough time split between the three crews that you didn't feel cheated, while at the same time, you see the other supporting roles ie Martok, the movers and shakers in the Federation etc.

In particular, I enjoyed some of the scenes following the ending, and they had a lot of emotional resonance, in particular Tuvok's visit to Deneva was brilliantly captured. I'm enjoying the relationship that's blossoming between Worf and Jasminder, I just hope that this one lasts!

There are only two things I think I would want to know: why was Ezri promoted to captain and featured in the trilogy when the DS9-R books are still four odd years behind Destiny, and why tell us Tom and B'Elanna has split up?! Ok, so I'm not as annoyed as the exclamation mark would say, but, personally, I would have preferred to wait until Full Circle to know that. I get the whole emotional dilemma for Admiral Paris because of his estrangement from his son, but still...

Anyways, I loved these three books and I'll likely read them over and over again because I doubt that they'd get tired. Thanks to David Mack for doing such a great job with them!

 

[Jono]

Sadly the series was below my expectations. However, it had little to do with the author or the novels but all to do with my unreasonable expectations. I allowed myself to get caught up in the praise and love of the first book and then when I read it and it turned out to be a very hard slog to finish I was disappointed. In hindsight I should have known that there were certain plotlines and areas of the story that would hold little to no interest for me but I managed to ignore that. In the end I found it an average series, but if I had been more rational with my expectations at the beginning I believe I might have enjoyed it more.

 

[KRAD]

David couldn't be that malicious as to kill Deanna off could he?

Obviously, you've never met Dave............

 

[Sci]

David couldn't be that malicious as to kill Deanna off could he?

Obviously, you've never met Dave............

I wasn't expecting him to kill her, but I was seriously expecting him to render her permanently infertile and/or to break up her marriage to Will.

 

[KRAD]

As for me, Destiny absolutely met my expectations: I expected a big fucking mess for me to clean up in A Singular Destiny, and that's exactly what I got.

(But then, between Wildfire and the end of A Time to..., I'm quite used to have to mop up after the Mack Daddy's literary excursions..... )

 

[Sci]

As for me, Destiny absolutely met my expectations: I expected a big fucking mess for me to clean up in A Singular Destiny, and that's exactly what I got.

(But then, between Wildfire and the end of A Time to..., I'm quite used to have to mop up after the Mack Daddy's literary excursions..... )

Hmm. First you clean up after Mack killing most of the crew of the starship da Vinci. Then you clean up after his killing most of the population of the planet Tezwa. Now you clean up after his killing most of the Klingon/Romulan/Federation border population...

I'm waiting for David Mack to target an entire galaxy next.