Design the Next Enterprise
- Thread starter Shikarnov
- Start date
To quote myself from earlier in this thread:
For my part, I deliberately chose to omit the saucer separation capability from my design for the STO contest, and good riddance.Honestly, how many times have we actually seen that done? Two or three during the entire run of TNG? I'm sure they thought it was a cool idea back in the day but I never really bought the viability of the concept. What the heck are all those escape pods for, anyway? I say let's just keep the Duras sisters from destroying the ship in the first place and save all the extra complexity and redundancy.
Edit - Having read your follow-up post since I began typing mine, I note your qualification of "Federation ships named Enterprise," but again I point you to the NX-01. Also, I'm not aware that either the Enterprise B or C conclusively had this capability, though they certainly could have.
I say keep the redundancy! It would make me feel comfortable to have a gigantic lifeboat, with lots of little lifepods to go to if that doesn't work. I say that it is better to have the ability and not need it than to end up needing it and not have it! My design is supposed to have multiple redundancies, and not just a primary detachable hull with concealed slipstream nacelles, but complete with an additional two warp cores in the raised sections in the saucer, and multiple micro-fusion reactors in addition to the five standard fusion reactors powering impulse drives. Why, you ask? So that she is prepared as possible for anything that is thrown at her.
I say give the Magellanic class separation abilities! Besides, she seems to have four nacelles, so why not try to work the separation plane to split between them similar to the Prometheus class? Otherwise, the nacelle design doesn't make much sense to me, especially considering that we see nothing like that with the Enterprise-G. By the way, the Congo class has separation ability, so you can't throw away this feature so easily.
The NX-01 to my knowledge was retired from service before the Federation was actually formed. I personally champion the idea that she was heavily damaged during the Romulan War and retired from service to make way for the Yorktown class (from the Starfleet Museum), and eventually was restored and made a museum ship. Even then, Eaves mentioned in one of his posts that it was planned for the Enterprise to receive among her upgrades for the canceled Season Five, the ability to separate the saucer section.
The Ambassador class clearly has a hull separation lining visible, which is similar to the Constitution refit. I don't remember any canon sources stating that the Excelsior class is capable of saucer separation, true. But I do remember that there is at least one fanon source that supports the idea, and it is sound logic to assume that if the Constitution class has it, and the Ambassador class apparently has it, than the Excelsior class must have it as well.
@Fuzzy Modem: My Essex class doesn't quite hit your spot eh? I guess that means the feelings mutual. Fair Enough
As for the other designs your posted:
1424
Eh, its okay. Not sure about the saucer shape compared to the engineering section+nacelle pylon lengths. Doesn't look wide enough to me. Like the nacelles. Looks like they were inspired a little by the Vesta.
1409
Looks a little small, but gotta love the pointy saucer. Reminds me a lot of the Andromeda class.
1378
Eh, not crazy about the organic looking design... And there already is a Century class...
1400
I have to agree. A nice, well balanced design. And a latecomer that unfortunately didn't manage to generate the attention she deserved.
1335
Definitely have to agree. About the only things that I think needs to be done is give her seppie ability, and don't be afraid to arm her to the teeth with tons of torp launchers and phasers, and she's ready to rock.
1289
Not crazy about the way that the nacelle pylons come up from underneath, and the neck doesn't do anything for me.
1259
I would lower the saucer so that it is more or less on top of the engineering section, attach the saucer to the engineering section by the very back of the saucer, while adapting the neck pylons to the aforementioned changed, and I think she could make an excellent candidate. The drawing is top notch, and looks like one of those official concept drawings.
1229
To me, she looks a little small, like the size of maybe a Luna class, though maybe that is because of the omission of windows. To me, she just looks compact, and not quite big enough. But she is a nice starship design.
1222
Eh, doesn't do anything for me. The neck looks like a prime target, and it is so tall, it's hard to miss.
1208
I'm pretty sure that isn't madeinjapan1988's submission, because he didn't spell his screen name right, and this is his entry. And I have to agree that his design is a beauty, and has kind of shaped my preconceptions of what the Enterprise F is supposed to look like. The Century class has admittedly had an effect too.
1167
Eh... Not really crazy about it. It's okay I guess, but I think that the designer should have looked more at the Congo class and less at the Universe class. Still, I love the deflector, and she looks great from the front. But less spectacular from the side. Still glad I saw her though. Whoever rendered her is pretty good from what I can tell.
1161
Probably the one design with a neck that I actually like. Sure she has a neck, but it's a thick neck that enemies will have a hard time cutting through, it is different, and it is done well. I kind of like the nacelle wings too. A shame she is so under rated while a bunch of stolen or poor designs have high enough ratings to appear right away.
1147
The artist's style looks familiar. Telling by how long ago this was done, and by how talented the artist is (he could have drafted a brand new design, or updated one of his favorites, instead of just choosing one of his already done drawings), I wonder if the person who submitted her is actually the artist (or a thief)?
And that is all I have time for tonight. I have classes tomorrow, and I need to get ready for bed, so I'll continue where I left off later.
@JES: I'm sorry, which was yours? *goes back to read through the thread...
[edit] I found her here, but I admit to having passed her by on the contest site (and now can't find her.) You pencil work is quite good, and props for all the little details, but once you had her in the computer, why not mirror the finished side for perfect symmetry and a complete looking design? She also begs for even just a touch of color to "pop" and grab people's attention. Red bussard collectors and blue warp field grilles would have been enough.
Maybe you've done this since posting the image above, and please post her page on the contest site, but from what I see there she looks unfinished or abandoned, and therefore I'm afraid she's rather easy to dismiss. In addition she's a little too similar to the Sovereign. No two generations of Enterprise have looked so alike. Not even the C and D. Taking a risk or two would have given her a greater sense of identity, and made her more memorable.
I say none of this to diminish you in any way. In my experience, honest constructive criticism is the only way we grow as artists.
I appreciate your run down on my favorites. Quite insightful. I look forward to reading your reviews of the rest when you get time
[edit] I found her here, but I admit to having passed her by on the contest site (and now can't find her.) You pencil work is quite good, and props for all the little details, but once you had her in the computer, why not mirror the finished side for perfect symmetry and a complete looking design? She also begs for even just a touch of color to "pop" and grab people's attention. Red bussard collectors and blue warp field grilles would have been enough.
Maybe you've done this since posting the image above, and please post her page on the contest site, but from what I see there she looks unfinished or abandoned, and therefore I'm afraid she's rather easy to dismiss. In addition she's a little too similar to the Sovereign. No two generations of Enterprise have looked so alike. Not even the C and D. Taking a risk or two would have given her a greater sense of identity, and made her more memorable.
I say none of this to diminish you in any way. In my experience, honest constructive criticism is the only way we grow as artists.
I appreciate your run down on my favorites. Quite insightful. I look forward to reading your reviews of the rest when you get time
Last edited:
Ah. Yes. Those "shapes" are somewhat flat hull contours from the side view, but wide and rounded from the ventral view. Almost spade-like. It's just the perspective...e.g., from the side you can't easily see the way the deflector array cowling cuts into the engineering hull, but it's there. The hull geometry is just a lot harder to represent in 2D.
As for MSPaint, I am using the Windows 7 version, which has something akin to basic layer support and freeform selection. And to be honest, I've tried other programs. I'm actually faster at developing designs in MSPaint, due to familiarity and simplicity. The more complex program elements I have at hand, the longer it takes me to get any work done.
I also like the reactions I get when I mention MSPaint.
^snffff! But you didn't comment on mine either! I feel so left out!
Reminds me of the Olympic-class for some reason. Doesn't look like it, though...just something about it I can't put my finger on. Would love to see some other views of the design.
~Belisarius
---------------------------
"All life is struggle, from first breath to last."
- Anonymous
^snffff! But you didn't comment on mine either! I feel so left out!
don't worry . . . nobody liked mine either (yours is pretty good
)I should have spent more time on it
^snffff! But you didn't comment on mine either! I feel so left out!
I like her. She looks huge and sturdy, with a touch of Defiant. I had the idea to incorporate the nacelles into the saucer too, and did so in an early draft. You have the opposite problem as JES however, in that she isn't characteristically "Enterprisey" at a glance, and would likely be considered a different type of vessel by an observer who didn't know any better. Mine has been accused of the same thing though. It's a tough line to walk between "originality" (on which 1/2 of you score is based) and recognizability.
I'd also like to see a good deal more of her. You've only utilized about 1/3 of your available space on the page, and thus could have easily added two more views or all your orthographics in a tighter format.
Given the very wide format of the max resolution submission image, I'm surprised we didn't see more big profiles.
http://images.wikia.com/stexpanded/images/f/f9/Olympic_class.jpg
(I don't see the resemblance.)
She's not bad, but like JES's a little too easy to overlook in a pool of a thousand. She has a lot of the J in her, but you've pulled it off better than most, in that she looks waaaay sexier than the J herself. The perspective in the background that almost looks like a watermark throws me. It's too difficult to make out to serve any real purpose, and it distracts from the orthos. Again, if you'd gone a bit wider you'd have had room to fit it up in the top right corner.
It's a bit frustrating that they didn't include recommended resolution in the contest rules. I had to figure it out by screen shotting the maximum width of the grey box that loads before the slide does, then taking it into Photoshop, cropping and measuring. I guessed at the size of the border, and the went a tiny bit under, as I didn't want the submission process sizing the image for me. I also sharpened the F*CK out of my high resolution version to the point that it looked hideous as full size, but then nice and crisp when reduced to 25%, and I practiced web compressing it and over-saturated the colors that were being lost.
Well at least you've tried them. I won't begrudge you the use of your favorite tool is you've had a taste of the other options. I will say though that once you get past the interface learning curve of the more advanced pieces of software, you are likely to see you productivity increase dramatically. Many of the programs can do in one step what it takes others a dozen. See: Automated panorama stitching, cloning, vanishing point, etc.
Last edited:
Your looking at the wrong image. for some reason the hotlink is pulling up someone else's in the main view. Mine is entry #1256.
And yea, even looking at the correct image, not sure how the Olympic class relates. Unless JES saw yet a different image from what came up for you at the link.
Odd. What name is it under?
You can only pack so much into a design before it starts to become a parody of itself. There are all sorts of “prepared for anything” features I could have included like multi-vector assault mode, a wing of combat shuttles, dreadnought-class phaser and photon batteries, batmobile armor, etc, etc, but I deliberately chose to stay within more realistic and practical parameters.
I think saucer separation was probably useful for something like the Galaxy class back in the pre-Borg, pre-Dominion War days when Starfleet was still naively optimistic enough to put families and children onboard front-line starships, but also cautious enough to provide them with a way to be left behind in relative safety when everyone else had to go into battle. Design work on the Sovereign class first began during the same era, so it’s not surprising the separable saucer was held over one more generation, but I don’t see it surviving as a ubiquitous feature beyond that. Certainly not just because a ship happened to be named Enterprise.
I actually worried that I was pushing the envelope with four nacelles, but that seems to be one of the defining characteristics of a heavy cruiser in STO so I ran with it. Not that the Enterprise necessarily has to be a heavy cruiser but that is its traditional classification. Having said that, I don’t see the Starfleet brass making their decision about which ship will be the next to carry the name Enterprise based on how many nacelles it has. It’s a matter of prestige, not specific hull configuration.
What’s the rationale for having four nacelles? More power, higher sustainable warp factors, greater redundancy. Perhaps they even found a way to make warp drive itself more efficient by dividing the nacelles into tandem pairs. Whatever the rationale, it’s well established within the STO pantheon of ship design and that’s good enough for me, especially since my entry was one of the few to take that approach (aside from all the badly Photoshopped Sovereigns with nacelles hanging off them like fruit on an apple tree).
So, you’re arguing that, even though the NX-01 was named Enterprise, it didn’t have to have a separable saucer because it wasn’t technically a Federation starship. Somehow I doubt that Starfleet’s shipwrights would base their decisions about things like separable saucers on such finely and irrelevantly split hairs.
It may seem logical if you’re trying to arrive at a pre-ordained conclusion, but otherwise no. Case in point: Every Federation ship named Enterprise up through the Ent-D had a neck between the primary and secondary hulls. By your logic, the Ent-E should have had one as well, but it didn’t. Clearly such assumptions will only get you so far and no farther. I simply chose not to make such assumptions with my design.
"Iss not ah tumah!"
~Belisarius
---------------------------
"All life is struggle, from first breath to last."
- Anonymous
It's #1256, Eickler.
Ahhhhhh! I'm actually surprised that one didn't make my list. I remember liking her.
She's rather similar to mine in many respects, such as her posture and the up and out "V" of her nacelle struts. Though you play it a bit safer with the traditional connection to the engineering section, which may be wiser. I also like the tilt of the nacelles. It's ever so slightly Voyageresque, but in a very good way, considerably more dynamic than the straight up and down that we're used to.
Good job utilizing the full page area too (though the perspective shot on the far left could be bigger.) I'd sure like to see her with hull texture and windows. Weapons would be nice too, and I can't really make out her deflector, but there is more than enough there to get a really good feel for her, and the STO team would have enough angles to work from were she to win (and have said they will contact you if they need more.)
You could have done a bit more to streamline the connections between components (too many rectangles) the engineering section could stand to be a bit larger, and I actually like the inner "egg" shape of the saucer (like mine) more than the outer oval (like the sovereign) though the two shapes work together quite well.
She is unquestionably an Enterprise, and yet has a new flavor, distinct from any of her predecessors, including the sovereign, though we can see the E's influence most heavily (which makes sense) and she has the tiniest little nod to the J with the raised line that runs the length of the saucer. Not easy to pull off... yet her flavor could be a bit bolder. Right now she's slightly bland. This would likely be rectified with creative texturing however.
The view on the far right is my favorite. She positively soars!
She's rather similar to mine in many respects, such as her posture and the up and out "V" of her nacelle struts. Though you play it a bit safer with the traditional connection to the engineering section, which may be wiser. I also like the tilt of the nacelles. It's ever so slightly Voyageresque, but in a very good way, considerably more dynamic than the straight up and down that we're used to.
Good job utilizing the full page area too (though the perspective shot on the far left could be bigger.) I'd sure like to see her with hull texture and windows. Weapons would be nice too, and I can't really make out her deflector, but there is more than enough there to get a really good feel for her, and the STO team would have enough angles to work from were she to win (and have said they will contact you if they need more.)
You could have done a bit more to streamline the connections between components (too many rectangles) the engineering section could stand to be a bit larger, and I actually like the inner "egg" shape of the saucer (like mine) more than the outer oval (like the sovereign) though the two shapes work together quite well.
She is unquestionably an Enterprise, and yet has a new flavor, distinct from any of her predecessors, including the sovereign, though we can see the E's influence most heavily (which makes sense) and she has the tiniest little nod to the J with the raised line that runs the length of the saucer. Not easy to pull off... yet her flavor could be a bit bolder. Right now she's slightly bland. This would likely be rectified with creative texturing however.
The view on the far right is my favorite. She positively soars!
Last edited:
Thanks, interesting comments. Yea, tng style curvilinear/fluid design is beyond my modeling skills. I did want to try something new with the main deflector, but it didn't turn out well, so I focused on images that tended to not show it. I was basically going to try to extend the "radar dish" analogy to the next level and have a "phased array" look to it instead of the ubiquitous parabolic dish. I also never found a nacelle design that I felt was unique to the design/time period. The one I ended up with looks too retro.
As with all my models, I reached a point where I could imagine the rest and never finished it.
As with all my models, I reached a point where I could imagine the rest and never finished it.
That's almost the same reason my deflector is so vanilla. I had already decided to go with the rear view before I started on it (to show off my make-or break feature, the consolidated struts/neck), so I knew the deflector wouldn't be seen on the submission image (other than on the tiny 1/2 ortho.) It was before I had decided to do the video, and it's something I regret not putting more work into at the time.
IMO You might really benefit from 100% completion, not necessarily for this contest, but for your portfolio and in preparation for future projects. I don't know what your aspiring toward, but I consider myself a concept artist, and that's the skill of wowing people who might not otherwise care, and to do that you have to finish it and then polish the f*ck out of it. I see your work as you do, because I have an ounce of imagination, but many people don't, and to be successful you have to cater to them as well.
But that's just my passion talking. I have no idea whether you are content to remain a hobbyist or are actually trying to break into the industry. Either way, you have talent, and I'd like to see it grow to fruition
IMO You might really benefit from 100% completion, not necessarily for this contest, but for your portfolio and in preparation for future projects. I don't know what your aspiring toward, but I consider myself a concept artist, and that's the skill of wowing people who might not otherwise care, and to do that you have to finish it and then polish the f*ck out of it. I see your work as you do, because I have an ounce of imagination, but many people don't, and to be successful you have to cater to them as well.
But that's just my passion talking. I have no idea whether you are content to remain a hobbyist or are actually trying to break into the industry. Either way, you have talent, and I'd like to see it grow to fruition
Similar threads
