Describe if you will, a "real" Star Trek battle...

[T'Girl]

It would not seem to be a part of the Federation's core philosophy to have a computer make the judgment about ending intelligent life. The computer would figure angles, speed, power requirements, but a sapient being would be required to make the ethical decision to destroy and kill.


So there is always going to be a living being's finger on the button. It might not be a actual firing button, but something labeled 'enable' or 'weapons release'.

In Errand of Mercy, the Enterprise was in a war zone, it's deflectors in that particular case may have been set to automatic, which wouldn't have alway been the case.

 

[SeerSGB]

It would not seem to be a part of the Federation's core philosophy to have a computer make the judgment about ending intelligent life. The computer would figure angles, speed, power requirements, but a sapient being would be required to make the ethical decision to destroy and kill.


So there is always going to be a living being's finger on the button. It might not be a actual firing button, but something labeled 'enable' or 'weapons release'.

In Errand of Mercy, the Enterprise was in a war zone, it's deflectors in that particular case may have been set to automatic, which wouldn't have alway been the case.

Well shields and deflectors are defensive measures anyway, and it'd probably make sense to keep them on automatic for dealing with anything that gets past the nav-deflector or just some random bit of this or that junk that's hurtling towards the ship. And with cloaked warship running about, seconds count; so, again, common sense says keep the deflectors on auto and let them pop on whenever something shows up--you can always override and close them down if the object is a friendly.

 

[blssdwlf]

A few nights ago I was playing a modified game of Star Fleet Battles with my son and I noticed the battle behaved similarly to "The Deadly Years". I had two Klingon warships and boxed his Federation cruiser in where we all slowed down after closing to 1 hex and we were just trading fire. After a couple of turns he dumped all his power into movement and flew out of range of my ships which were powered for attack and defense forcing me to chase him again. He picked off both my ships as we pursued. It was a good game

In any case, IMHO, part of the equation in battle also depends on the power output capability of the opposing ships as well as the captain's choice of power utilization. For example, the opposing sides could decide to maneuver while firing phasers which means phaser and shield power is reduced as power is also shared with the warp engines and shields. Or both sides decide to close and slug it out by transferring most of the maneuvering power into either phasers or shields. This might explain the battles in DS9 where the ships slugged it out at close range and slow speeds as it might've been necessary in order to maintain strong enough beam power to attack with while having decent shields to defend against multiple ship attacks...

 

[SicOne]

There would probably be a significant tactical subgroup of Starfleet whose jobs it would be to study and evaluate threat starships and develop specific actions and countermeasures to quickly and ably defeat them. "Captain, Romulan Warbird decloaking and firing photon torpedos!". Tactical presses a button prominently marked "D'Deridex-class" and the computer takes over. Ship's torpedos arm, phasers arm, and shields go up, depending on how soon the inbound torpedos are due to arrive; if the ship can go to warp before the Romulan torps hit it then it does so. Ship short-warps to a position aft of the Warbird and fires some phasers and torpedos at the rear of the Warbird, which presumably would have its shields concentrated forward towards its target. Ship immediately short-warps again to a position perpendicular towards its previous path, fires phasers and torpedos at the Warbird. Ship's computer follows a preprogrammed but random series of short-warp hops all around the Warbird, releasing volleys of weapons before the next hop. Depending on where the inbound torpedos are about to impact on the Warbird's shields, the ship may short-warp hop to within very close proximity to the threat and focus all power to phasers to dimple the Warbird's shields in the vicinity of where previously-fired torpedos are going to strike. In short order, repeated phaser strikes and torpedo impacts from all points of the compass in all three dimensions disable or destroy the Warbird.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'm assuming they would use naval tactics

They wouldn't. They would use STARSHIP tactics, because space is not an ocean and starships are not boats.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

A few nights ago I was playing a modified game of Star Fleet Battles with my son and I noticed the battle behaved similarly to "The Deadly Years". I had two Klingon warships and boxed his Federation cruiser in where we all slowed down after closing to 1 hex and we were just trading fire. After a couple of turns he dumped all his power into movement and flew out of range of my ships which were powered for attack and defense forcing me to chase him again. He picked off both my ships as we pursued. It was a good game

In any case, IMHO, part of the equation in battle also depends on the power output capability of the opposing ships as well as the captain's choice of power utilization. For example, the opposing sides could decide to maneuver while firing phasers which means phaser and shield power is reduced as power is also shared with the warp engines and shields. Or both sides decide to close and slug it out by transferring most of the maneuvering power into either phasers or shields. This might explain the battles in DS9 where the ships slugged it out at close range and slow speeds as it might've been necessary in order to maintain strong enough beam power to attack with while having decent shields to defend against multiple ship attacks...

They already do something similar to this with their pre-programed attack patterns. The computer has a whole library of strategic scenarios mapped out, so the tactical officer can push the preset labeled "Attack pattern theta-2" and the computer will execute that program on a designated target, firing weapons when appropriate and evading when appropriate. Tactical officer of course maintains the option to manually fire weapons if he sees an opening (or keeps a couple of weapons under manual control to avoid conflicting with the computer's target selections). Meanwhile, everyone on the bridge gets to look busy and heroic while pretending that the computer isn't doing 90% of the work.

 

[SeerSGB]

Couple of thoughts I had while playing STO last night:

1) Could warp fields be used as a weapon? The equivalent of stalling their engines in your jet wash, if you will. Some sort of subspace interference between two warp fields that could cause a enemy warp field to collapse and force them back into sublight speeds. Makes for a handy hit and run tactic.

2) Cloaking devices are too perfect. There should be some localized affect that can be picked up on sensors as a result of mass and temperature changes. Stuff that a ship could hide. If I have a perfectly clear crystal ball floating in mid air, I might not be able to see it but it still causes a localized effect cause of it's mass, temperature, etc. There should be something disturbed that a ship's sensors can detect by the mere presence of the other ship.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Angry Fanboy

I'm assuming they would use naval tactics...

Two dimensional thinking dear boy!

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Angry Fanboy

I'm assuming they would use naval tactics...

Two dimensional thinking dear boy!

Given that modern naval warships have to deal with missiles, aircraft, other surface warships, naval artillary, submarines, torpedoes ...

... how do you figure "two dimensional?"

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: Angry Fanboy

I'm assuming they would use naval tactics...

Two dimensional thinking dear boy!

Given that modern naval warships have to deal with missiles, aircraft, other surface warships, naval artillary, submarines, torpedoes ...

... how do you figure "two dimensional?"

Cause even if their dealing with all that, they can only--with the exception of a sub--navigate in two dimensions. So they're tactics by nature are going to be two dimensional: Right, left, backwards, forwards.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Re: Angry Fanboy

... how do you figure "two dimensional?"

Up to a point obviously, space being infinite in all directions and all that.

 

[SeerSGB]

I wonder though: at least in early generations till tactics and expressed developed in real time space combat, if human instinct wouldn't default to thinking in two dimensional tactics? Give it a couple of generations of field experience rotating back into the training regimes and you'd have a Starfleet that would be capable of three dimensional combat as a natural form of tactics.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I wonder though: at least in early generations till tactics and expressed developed in real time space combat, if human instinct wouldn't default to thinking in two dimensional tactics?

It wouldn't, since three-dimensional combat tactics have already been developed for fighter planes and even submarines to a limited extent.

More importantly, people are going to be living and working in space long before they start FIGHTING there. The kinds of people who are likely to be involved in a real space battle are the kinds of people who have been in space long enough to stop making those kinds of mistakes; they're used to thinking in three dimensions because it's impossible to operate in space otherwise.

Give it a couple of generations of field experience rotating back into the training regimes and you'd have a Starfleet that would be capable of three dimensional combat as a natural form of tactics.

Considering the Klingons have been fighting wars in space for hundreds of years before Starfleet even develops phasers, it's unlikely they'd really have a "couple generations" to figure that out.

 

[blssdwlf]

From "Shattered Mirror"

O'BRIEN: A bird of prey has locked onto us.
SISKO: Evasive maneuvers. Pattern Delta.
...
O'BRIEN: Pattern Delta? What's that?
SISKO: Rock her.
O'BRIEN: Rock her?
SISKO: Port to starboard, hard.
O'BRIEN: Got it. Can't lose her.
SISKO: Hard to port.
...
SISKO: Fire!
...
(enemy ship destroyed)
...
O'BRIEN: I must remember that one.

 

[Caesar753]

Here's an interesting take on how a "real" Star Trek battle might pan out: http://www.tested.com/news/news/451609-what-will-space-battles-really-look/

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Same as the Atomic Rockets guys. Take a hard specific sci-fi premise and write an essay about it and that makes it not fiction anymore.

 

[blssdwlf]

Here's an interesting take on how a "real" Star Trek battle might pan out: http://www.tested.com/news/news/451609-what-will-space-battles-really-look/

That's more a "real" future battle but it isn't Star Trek

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

CAP: "No worries. Coffee, yoeman?"

YOEMAN: "yes it is, sir."

Captain: Tactical, how soon until we repair the damage?
Tactical: I can't tell, sir.
Captain: You can tell me, I'm the captain.
Tactical: No sir, I mean I'm just not sure.
Captain: Can't you take a guess?
Tactical: Well, sir...not for another two hours.
Captain: You can't take a guess for another two hours?

 

[Forbin]

 

[TheRoyalFamily]

Maybe Trek battles take place so close is because you have to get that close to overcome all the general sensor jamming and computer trickery that would be going on in a joined battle.