Denobulan, Vulcan and human sexuality; bonding

[Hopeful Romantic]

trj, trellium was brought up by several posters within the context of T'Pol's relationships with Trip and Archer.

A discussion focusing on T'Pol and trellium belongs in another thread.

 

[Penguin]

Trip and T-Pol not only were mentaly bonded they were physicaly Bonded too.

In bound Trip wonders why he is immune ot the Orien females and T-Pol tells him that she is immune to their Phernomes and she makes Trip immune too, That was physical not mental. The Orion women were upsetting rthe males on board Enterrise with the Pernomes they were giving off which was a physical scent and taken in physically. Trip because of T-Pol was immune to them because T-Pol was making him physicaly immune.

Later on in Sick Bay Phlox says to Trip that if T-Pol had been Pregnant Trip would have known it and if she had embryo removed he would have known that too. Only through a physical bond could have Trip known those things because T-Pol would not have told him and she could keep him from picking it up mentally.

Trip and T-Pol had a cmplete bond Mental and Physical.

 

[commodore64]

I don't know about complete. If it were, why did it end before TATV?

 

[Captain X]

Because Braga couldn't let Coto have the last word.

 

[Penguin]

Commodre64. Let's say that TATV is a very lousy Epilogue. As far as I am concerned the series ended with Terra Prime. In the Episode the bond was alive and well.

also, Trip and T-Pol confirmed they were a pair by their mourning of their Daughter, watching her die. Then trip saying that there was no reason that Vulcans and Humans couldn't have a child: read "there is no reason we cannot have another child." T-Pol by taking his hand is agreeing with that statement. I just wish there had been some more dialgoue to realy but a cap on it. T-Pol verbally agreeing that they could and should have another child. That would put the icing on the cake as far as I amconcerned.

Just my humble opinoon, of course. I am sure you see it in a different light with a different opinon and that is good. dialouge is good and makes the thread intersting

 

[Mach5]

"there is no reason we cannot have another child."

IIRC, this is almost the exact quote from the first draft of "Terra Prime" script.

 

[gblews]

Commodre64. Let's say that TATV is a very lousy Epilogue. As far as I am concerned the series ended with Terra Prime. In the Episode the bond was alive and well.

Actually, the status of the bond in TaTV is open to speculation since there is no on screen confirmation that it had ever been broken.

 

[Penguin]

Gblews. I have never seen TATV and have no intention of ever seeing it. I do understand though that in the episode Trip and T-Pol were saying goodbye and apparently were going off in different directions never to meet again. I may be wrong on this. so if there was a Bond still in existence I would think that the bond would prevent this from happening as strong as it was.

Mach5. Interesting quote. I wonder if Coto had his way if that line would have stayed in the script.

One thing in Terra Prime I would have liked to see is when Elizabveth dies. The viewers are made aware of this by Trip looking upwards and T-Pol turning her head away from Elizabeth's Incubator. I would have preferred T-Pol turning to her mate (trip) and stepping into his arms. Her bond/mate (trip) taking her into his arms and the two consoling one another through their bond. Much more dramatic that what was shown.

 

[Mach5]

Actually, the status of the bond in TATV is open to speculation since there is no on screen confirmation that it had ever been broken.

Well, if they had in fact broken up, then it is safe to assume that the bond dissolved with time.

But, who's to say for sure that they really ended their relationship? Consider this: every private conversation seen in TATV was, while based on historical facts, no more than an interpretation, and a considerable level of "artistic freedom" was required to fill in all the holes. I certainly doubt that these conversations were recorded, it's not like NX-01 crew participated in a reality show or something.

That said, what if Tucker and T'pol decided to keep their relationship private and under the radar, which would BTW be absolutely necessary in order for their working relationship to function. A romance between the superior and a subordinate was hardly appropriate, especially in mid 22 century (Archer made this clear in "Home").

Gblews. I have never seen TATV and have no intention of ever seeing it.

You should at least give it a "chance to fail." I kept an open mind, saw it once, and never had the need too see it again since (not because it was bad, but because it simply didn't feel like an ENT episode).

 

[Penguin]

Mach5, From what I have read I don't believe that TATV would hold any interest for me at all.

Not going to get into the Superior subordinate thing as my views on that have been expressed already. Lets say that Trip and T-Pol were of equal rank so a romance would be within regulations between those of equal rank.

One big problem with Ent series was that there was so much that was ambiguous that eveything was open to different interpretations. I guess it just depends on what you want to believe. I believe that Trip and T-Pol did not part, got married after TATV and had a family. Living a long, happy marriage. But that is my opinon for what it is worth.

 

[gblews]

Gblews. I have never seen TATV and have no intention of ever seeing it.

A wise decision.

You see, one of a myriad of problems with TaTV (and I'm not trying to touch off a bash session), is that it muddies the water (its a hologram) with respect to things like the bond, and promotes speculation without much closure, and closure is one of the things a final episode of a series should do. OTOH, that is probably one of the reasons the Enterprise book writers have had a field day writing post TaTV stories.

It can just as easily be argued (by others who are better versed in the subject than I), that the bond remained, relationship or no relationship, partially because we didn't hear about it in TaTV, and because the bond was never fully explained in any earlier episodes.

For all we know from the final few episodes, in the 6 years following Terra Prime the bond may still exist because of their close proximity, but T/T learned to block each others presence in each other's minds.

But my argument is not that the bond still exists 6 years later, it is that there is no definitive on screen evidence as to the status of the bond.

 

[commodore64]

But, who's to say for sure that they really ended their relationship?

Trip and T'Pol did. When T'Pol goes to Trip in the shuttle in TATV, she asks if he ever thought about their relationship and he tells her he has for the past six years. Why would you have this discussion unless it were over?

I thought TATV was okay. Better than some of the other episodes of Enterprise.

 

[Mach5]

But, who's to say for sure that they really ended their relationship?

Trip and T'Pol did. When T'Pol goes to Trip in the shuttle in TATV, she asks if he ever thought about their relationship and he tells her he has for the past six years. Why would you have this discussion unless it were over?

Did you read the whole post? You seem to have missed the point. Who's to say that they ever even had that conversation? And even if they had, would history really have a record of it?

I thought TATV was okay. Better than some of the other episodes of Enterprise.

No comment...

 

[Penguin]

Commodore64. I am terribly late on this but....

T-Pol asked Trip if he ever thought of their relationship. He said yes for the past six years.

She did not say she had not thought of it too. She may have thought about it for six years too and was trying to find out if Trip still valued their relationship. Trying to find out if he thought about it as much as she did.

If both did think about their relationship for the past six years this conversation would be a good opportunity to start it up again. Which may have happened.

Like many other I think TATV was a hologram and not necessaily real so Trip might have lived and he and T-Pol might have become a real couple who stayed together for life.


Happy New Year.

 

[Nick Ryder]

I keep thinking that Trip 'faked' his death so he could go off to Vulcan or some other colony with T'Pol and have hot sweaty Vulcan sex, and spawn a whole brood of Human-Vulcan hybrid kids.

And then Trip and T'Pol created Vulcan Love Slave and the rest is, as they say... history.

 

[Mach5]

And then Trip and T'Pol created Vulcan Love Slave and the rest is, as they say... history.

I thought the Ferengi came up with that...

 

[commodore64]

Commodore64. I am terribly late on this but....

T-Pol asked Trip if he ever thought of their relationship. He said yes for the past six years.

She did not say she had not thought of it too. She may have thought about it for six years too and was trying to find out if Trip still valued their relationship. Trying to find out if he thought about it as much as she did.

If both did think about their relationship for the past six years this conversation would be a good opportunity to start it up again. Which may have happened.

Like many other I think TATV was a hologram and not necessaily real so Trip might have lived and he and T-Pol might have become a real couple who stayed together for life.

Didn't see this until recently.

Sure, it was a hologram, but I believe -- and I think Star Trek did a nice job of showing this -- the holodeck is based on reality. When the holodeck features literary characters, it depicts them incredibly well. For example, Moriarty acts as the supreme super-villian.

On T'Pol and whether she thought about Trip or not, by the nature of her conversation with Riker, I got the impression she hadn't. She seemed somewhat surprised by Riker's comments regarding Trip (and for that matter Archer). His comments do spark her to have the conversation with Trip and, I agree, he seems to have thought about it a lot.

 

[Mach5]

Sure, it was a hologram, but I believe -- and I think Star Trek did a nice job of showing this -- the holodeck is based on reality. When the holodeck features literary characters, it depicts them incredibly well. For example, Moriarty acts as the supreme super-villian.

Of all the available examples (Newton, Freud, Hawking, Samuel Clemens, Leonardo, Leah Brahms etc.) you chose the fictional character played by the guy from "The Nanny!" Nice going

On T'Pol and whether she thought about Trip or not, by the nature of her conversation with Riker, I got the impression she hadn't.

...And then you attempt to prove a point by referring to one of the conversations that we know for a fact never took place. Holograms are no more than imitations of real people, empty shells, that's it. They imitate the personalities of real people, but they don't know what those people really had on their minds, how they felt...
Real life Leah Brahms for example, turned out to be almost nothing like the one Geordi 'played with' (though he's the one to blame for that, making her his love doll and all).

And then, of course, there's Moriarty, who basically achieved awareness by accident, and transcended the character on which he was based...

Wait... Are we discussing TATV again? That "Spock's Brain Award" winning classic? Oh brother...

 

[commodore64]

^ You must not have seen Spock's Brain. It's a fun romp in the same way Way to Eden is. They're lovably bad.

The facts about Brahms were correct; only her personality was different. Dating/not dating seems to be something a fact can be based and doesn't have the nuances of a personality.

You know, TATV is one episode and it's only an hour long. It's not Hitler, didn't kill any puppies or murder any babies.

 

[Mach5]

^ You must not have seen Spock's Brain. It's a fun romp in the same way Way to Eden is. They're lovably bad.

I've seen it, thanks for asking. And I admit, it was kinda fun, in a trashy sort of way, but it was also terribly stupid and IIRC, William Shatner said in "Star Trek Memories" that shooting it was embarrassing for most of the cast.

You know, TATV is one episode and it's only an hour long. It's not Hitler, didn't kill any puppies or murder any babies.

It was also the last Star Trek episode ever made...