At last, some proper focus on Yaz. Hopefully they'll knock it out of the park so to make up for the lack of focus on her thus far.
Spoilers Demons of the Punjab grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
At last, some proper focus on Yaz. Hopefully they'll knock it out of the park so to make up for the lack of focus on her thus far.
Well if they don't hit a home run with this one Tegan and Nyssa will come get them.
I'm excited for this one. I would've been nervous, but the success of 'Rosa' makes me confident.
Interesting episode. The Doctor was more of an observer than a participant which is probably a bit more realistic for a time-traveller at times. She cannot save everyone all of the time I suppose. And sometimes history has to unfold how it did, even if it is unpleasent.
In some ways this is what the Pompeii episode could have been.
In some ways this is what the Pompeii episode could have been.
Excellent historical - the aliens were superfluous really except as a reason for the Doctor and Co to stay around. The idea that someone remembers the dead who die alone is comforting, I guess, but that could easily have been the Doctor.
Sweet little ep. And socially relevant, as no doubt Chibbers hoped. "This is not what I fought for", on Armistice Day. Brilliant.
Sweet little ep. And socially relevant, as no doubt Chibbers hoped. "This is not what I fought for", on Armistice Day. Brilliant.
This is, by far, my favorite episode of the series. Powerful characterization, well-written plot, lovely performances by all and a DIFFERENT setting, information about the politics of another era, its basically a great all-around story. My only niggle... the Doctor, not to mention his companions, barely affected the proceedings, did they? Also, the antagonists of the piece... it really reminded me of Twice Upon a Time's Testimony. Right?
Other than that, the best episode of the season. Loved it.
Other than that, the best episode of the season. Loved it.
Oh dear, yet another episode that seems to have wandered in from another series in which our 'heroes' are mostly ineffectual and barely effect the plot.
I understand the desire to reinvent the series after Moffat's version drove millions of viewers away but if you're going to turn it into something that's Doctor Who in name only, what's the point?
I understand the desire to reinvent the series after Moffat's version drove millions of viewers away but if you're going to turn it into something that's Doctor Who in name only, what's the point?
That was the point, wasn't it? Whereas in the Rosa ep, they had to keep history on track, despite its unpleasantness, here history was going to unfold that way anyhow... and all they can do is watch, because it's part of Yaz' history. All of us are here today through events that might not be pretty to look at from an outsider's view of the past. If we're lucky, someone remembers the folk who got ground in the wheels of history to squeeze out our droplet of oil. Maybe we even know that ourselves, and can emotionally connect with it. Or maybe it's just a page in a history book, or a cracked watch... or not even anything so concrete, like a memory...
I suspect they planned for this transmission date all along. Or at least this weekend. Oh, the aliens motive did seem a bit derived from the Testament last Xmas.
The obviousl male and female pairing of the demons just switched places between shots when explaining themselves to the Doctor- sloppy, that. Rather too obvious big message speech too, and not as good in terms of its actual dialogue as Moffat managed, even when his episodes made far less sense.
I love that iteration of the theme tune there at the end too..
Overall, much better than last week, though again the aliens are totally irrelevant, just there to provide a justification for calling it SF when it would have made a perfectly fine historical drama as is (so I'm knocking off a point for that as padding). Worked well on the SF front for showing the painful (emotionally) pitfalls of time travelling, and on the character dynamics in a historical turning point. They're going to have make sure the granny doesn't meet the Doctor in the present day, though, or she'll shit a brick.
But I'm still knocking a point off for the aliens being unnecessary padding - just do a proper fucking alien-free time travel historical, FFS.
The obviousl male and female pairing of the demons just switched places between shots when explaining themselves to the Doctor- sloppy, that. Rather too obvious big message speech too, and not as good in terms of its actual dialogue as Moffat managed, even when his episodes made far less sense.
I love that iteration of the theme tune there at the end too..
Overall, much better than last week, though again the aliens are totally irrelevant, just there to provide a justification for calling it SF when it would have made a perfectly fine historical drama as is (so I'm knocking off a point for that as padding). Worked well on the SF front for showing the painful (emotionally) pitfalls of time travelling, and on the character dynamics in a historical turning point. They're going to have make sure the granny doesn't meet the Doctor in the present day, though, or she'll shit a brick.
But I'm still knocking a point off for the aliens being unnecessary padding - just do a proper fucking alien-free time travel historical, FFS.
Cough Hartnell Era Cough
I shamefully don't know much about Indian or Pakistan history beyond the broad strokes, and while the episode don't expand on that basic knowledge, it did help provide the emotional impact of that terrible situation during Partition in August, 1947. The painful confrontation between Prem and Manish at the end resonates with today's world of divided people and demonstrated how we're still not learning from the mistakes of the past.
As a personal story for Yaz, this episode provided a touching story about her nan and a secret family history that Yaz had to learn from her own perspective. While the episode touched upon the classic "don't rewrite history, not one line!" trope, I liked how The Doctor her companions ultimately didn't have to do much to avoid effecting history in the end. I enjoyed watching Yaz struggle with the realization that there was a monumental part of her nan's early life that did she had no idea about and how Yaz continued to struggle with that ignorance as she watched history play out in front of her, feeling helpless every step of the way. And while I enjoyed the bookending scenes in present day between Yaz and Umbreen, I do wish Umbreen had acknowledged that she knew Yaz was somehow actually there beyond her understanding and that's why she passed on the watch to her (unless that's what did happen in the last minute of the episode, my feed cut off on me and didn't return until the episode was over).
While I liked the twist of how the Kisar weren't actually assassins observing and the mourning the tragedy of premature death, I ultimately found their presence rather superfluous to the events and I'm left wondering why they were needed. I don't wonder this just for the sake of wanting a pure historical, but also because I think the story could've been much more powerful if Partition played by itself while The Doctor discovered on her own what would ultimately happen to Prem without being told by the Kisar.
On a side note, the Kisar's death observing reminded me of something and I can't quite put my finger on it. And no, it's not Marvel's The Watchers that I'm trying to recall. This is going to bug me until I figure it out.
As a personal story for Yaz, this episode provided a touching story about her nan and a secret family history that Yaz had to learn from her own perspective. While the episode touched upon the classic "don't rewrite history, not one line!" trope, I liked how The Doctor her companions ultimately didn't have to do much to avoid effecting history in the end. I enjoyed watching Yaz struggle with the realization that there was a monumental part of her nan's early life that did she had no idea about and how Yaz continued to struggle with that ignorance as she watched history play out in front of her, feeling helpless every step of the way. And while I enjoyed the bookending scenes in present day between Yaz and Umbreen, I do wish Umbreen had acknowledged that she knew Yaz was somehow actually there beyond her understanding and that's why she passed on the watch to her (unless that's what did happen in the last minute of the episode, my feed cut off on me and didn't return until the episode was over).
While I liked the twist of how the Kisar weren't actually assassins observing and the mourning the tragedy of premature death, I ultimately found their presence rather superfluous to the events and I'm left wondering why they were needed. I don't wonder this just for the sake of wanting a pure historical, but also because I think the story could've been much more powerful if Partition played by itself while The Doctor discovered on her own what would ultimately happen to Prem without being told by the Kisar.
On a side note, the Kisar's death observing reminded me of something and I can't quite put my finger on it. And no, it's not Marvel's The Watchers that I'm trying to recall. This is going to bug me until I figure it out.
If I wanted to watch a nearly 60 year old version of the show I'd pop in a DVD.
It was ok, but I still think the pacing is off a bit. The aliens didn’t add much, and it reminded me of Testament from Twice upon a Time. How many other third parties are hanging around at end of life moments? Even the time lords have their extraction chambers.
Still digesting it.
Still digesting it.
And if you wanted to be reminded of the history behind a show that was filmed in black and white, later digitized and transposed onto DVD, or even streamed live to your TV?
Yaz's history, as she knows it, is the DVD. The truth is the original tape, but even beyond that it's the original cut. Even the "Time and Space" documentary is just cutting the surface.
I think this is my favourite episode of the series so far and I have enjoyed them all. As close to pure historical as they can get nowadays and wonderfully touching and relevant to the world right now and a very nice Remembrance episode without specifically being about either of the World Wars.
In a way, they remind me of Bele and Lokai who fought all over the universe ("Let that be your last battlefield") only to find that their planet has been destroyed by war in their absence. But this is so much more hopeful. Those two were unable to stop fighting, and kept going till they too were dead. The Kisar had instead realised the utter futility of killing, and instead adopted a mission to witness and honour those pointlessly killed.
While they contributed little to the plot, they added a note of comfort and honour. They helped the episode achieve the dichotomy of honouring the dead while deploring what they died for which was perfect for the date. And they raised a hope that killers can move beyond killing that is missing from LTBYLB.
Again, no obvious Big Villain beyond human bigotry and hatred. Again a piece of history worth reminding ourselves of. And the gentle kick that a silly old lady was a courageous, passionate young woman once.
I'm loving this season.
I can definitely see that parallel, although that's not definitely what I was trying to think of.
Yeah, that is a nice touch but I think what drags them down a bit is how The Doctor and others initially mistook them as evildoers. I get that it was suppose to be deliberately misleading all the way to the point the that they weren't the eponymous demons, but I feel like that diversion takes away from the larger points of the excellent episode.
Yup, I'm really loving the season for those particular parts, too. No cackling villains seeking to do great and terrible things for the sake of doing great and terrible things. Just some good ol' fashion bigotry and hatred.