Ah, I hadn't realized that the dilation effects were so low even at .99c...
I like this. It fits pretty well with my own assumptions, too.
Delta Vega
- Thread starter Ronald Held
- Start date
Ah, I hadn't realized that the dilation effects were so low even at .99c...
I like this. It fits pretty well with my own assumptions, too.
It's not that they're low, it's that even if they're 100%, DV was only two days away at the speed of light WITHOUT taking relativity into account.. My grasp of relativity might be shaky but my distance-rate-and-time problems are pretty good.
It's not that they're low, it's that even if they're 100%, DV was only two days away at the speed of light WITHOUT taking relativity into account.. My grasp of relativity might be shaky but my distance-rate-and-time problems are pretty good.
Ah, gotcha now. I didn't remember Delta Vega was so close by. (Sadly, I watched 'WNMHGB' not two weeks ago...
)
Well, unless I missed it, nobody's mentioned that the "Lithium Cracking Station" on Delta Vega is most likely the result of a private corporate venture, and therefore not part of the Starfleet exploratory program? So the automated mining facility could be the result of private exploration for the rare and profitable Lithium/dilithium, and starfleet would normaly have very little knowledge or interest in such matters, except in buying the stuff after it's been processed?
There was no Federation, as yet, during ENT. It wasn't formally begun until months after the events depicted in the "These Are the Voyages..." hologram. And the Vulcan combat cruiser Sh'Raan in the ENT ep "Fallen Hero" could only sustain Warp 7 for 12 minutes. So yes, Warp 7 was a big deal during the ENT era.
Ah, I hadn't realized that the dilation effects were so low even at .99c...
This site can come in handy for calculations such as this
trevanian
Rear Admiral
If it is any consolation, that only hurts my head when I try to think about it. (and my understanding is that it is the same system, not a closeby one.)
Hey, thanks.
Exactly. Which is why our heroes would be thinking in corner-patriotic terms, not realizing that the secret of the warp 7 engine was going to be handed to them on a platter just a few months later.
And warp 7 is obviously the top speed of the new design, like it was of the Vulcan warship - not a sustainable speed. After all, the so-called warp 5 engine was also supposed to have warp 5 as its top speed, not cruising speed, as we learned in the show.
Kirk's ship would probably have had a "warp 8 engine" in those terms, even though reckless operating procedures would allow for warp 10, and sabotaging of safeties would give even more. The engines of a Vulcan warship probably wouldn't be subject to reckless operating procedures or sabotage, ever.
Well, Vega obviously is a real star, close to us (just 25 ly, and thus by default close to Vulcan as well), and possibly home to advanced medical facilities because that's where Pike was headed after suffering casualties (even though Earth would have been practically equidistant). We also know Kirk once caught a disease named after Vega - another hint at advanced medical research going on there?
Would Delta Vega fit the bill of being a planet in the Vega system? There are two problems: the galactic barrier would be awfully close to Earth then, and there should be lots of activity at Delta Vega, not just an automated refinery.
But could Delta Vega be part of another sort of "system"? TIN MAN's mention of a commercial venture reminds me of Dytallix B, a planet named after a corporation and not by the central star Omicron Ceti. Perhaps Vega is another corporation, and this planet is named D Vega (or "delta" in phonetic alphabet) for being the corporation's fourth planetary acquisition?
As for how commercial Delta Vega really is, we have to decide upon the significance of the fact that instrumentation from the refinery seems to plug right in to Starfleet starship bridge consoles... Doesn't necessarily mean Delta Vega was of Starfleet manufacture, but it might be a hint about the UFP economic-industrial setup.
Timo Saloniemi
Our heroes did seem to think that warp 8 was the maximum safe speed, until circumstances demonstrated otherwise...
Possibly all warp coils are theoretically capable of high speeds, up to infinite speed, as long as one manages to feed enough power into them. That'd explain assorted TOS, TNG and VOY forays to "extreme speed regimes" whenever a villain jams the safety valve, or a new power source is introduced. Other components will fail past the designed maximum speed, though. So a warp 5 engine would be one whose power system can tickle the coils to warp 5 and whose spaceframe will probably fall apart at warp 6 anyway; Kirk's engine would have a bit of a power margin, but various structures and systems would still start to fail past warp 8.
Timo Saloniemi
Possibly all warp coils are theoretically capable of high speeds, up to infinite speed, as long as one manages to feed enough power into them. That'd explain assorted TOS, TNG and VOY forays to "extreme speed regimes" whenever a villain jams the safety valve, or a new power source is introduced. Other components will fail past the designed maximum speed, though. So a warp 5 engine would be one whose power system can tickle the coils to warp 5 and whose spaceframe will probably fall apart at warp 6 anyway; Kirk's engine would have a bit of a power margin, but various structures and systems would still start to fail past warp 8.
Timo Saloniemi
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Timo, shouldn't there be realistic limits, such that beyond a certian amount the power the warp coils start to melt down or at least stop working correctly?
I'm sure there are, but from what we've seen in the various shows you tend to hit the limits of your ship before that happens.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Since we have VOY "Threshold" and numerous TOS and some TNG cases of high velocities, we might speculate that the process of turning power into warp fields does not result in any waste heat. Waste something, perhaps - but this something doesn't jeopardize the coils themselves, possibly because it couples to subspace rather than to the realspace that the meltable aspects of the coils inhabit.
Forgot to comment on this from the previous page:
Agreed on those. But I'd argue that the docking and upgrading were done at some provincial dock that wasn't able to provide much. Hence the ship is dangerously low on dilithium crystals in "Mudd's Women", and her command crew is still well under strength so that many top officers have been reshuffled to fill the gaps left by the pilot episode losses.
To go with that theory, I'd like to disregard the changes in the ship's exterior. Or, rather, I'd like to explain them away as something else than a refit. The spires on the ramscoop domes? They're still there, only seldom extended - they always were retractable. The altered deflector dish? It's adjustable, much as will be seen in the new movie. The nacelle aft ends? The domes there are retractable, too - they are opened every now and then for purging, especially after a long warp run as the ship approaches a (typically reddish) planet on impulse.
Timo Saloniemi
Forgot to comment on this from the previous page:
Agreed on those. But I'd argue that the docking and upgrading were done at some provincial dock that wasn't able to provide much. Hence the ship is dangerously low on dilithium crystals in "Mudd's Women", and her command crew is still well under strength so that many top officers have been reshuffled to fill the gaps left by the pilot episode losses.
To go with that theory, I'd like to disregard the changes in the ship's exterior. Or, rather, I'd like to explain them away as something else than a refit. The spires on the ramscoop domes? They're still there, only seldom extended - they always were retractable. The altered deflector dish? It's adjustable, much as will be seen in the new movie. The nacelle aft ends? The domes there are retractable, too - they are opened every now and then for purging, especially after a long warp run as the ship approaches a (typically reddish) planet on impulse.
Timo Saloniemi
Might it be that Delta Vega was built by Starfleet's equivalent of the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers as a Federation public works related project of some kind, and used standard consoles?
Another interesting possibility it suggests is that the Delta Vega facility might've been roughly the same age as Enterprise.
Actually I can't recall now, but did we actually see them pull the consoles out, and then see them install the exact same consoles on Enterprise? I'm wondering if it could've been the 'guts' inside the DV consoles that fit easily into the Enterprise consoles. I always have trouble remembering details like that without rewatching the ep.
Mark
How many "Springfields" are there in the United States? How many cities named "Paris" in the world?
For that matter, how many "New Yorks" in the U.K. alone?
For that matter, how many "New Yorks" in the U.K. alone?
According to the novels, there is a Starfleet Corp of Engineers, and that would fit, in helping to create and startup the automated systems.
