Siko's line is followed by a quick reaction shot of MU Jadzia and MU O'Brien looking perplexed. It always felt to me like there was supposed to be a scene later where this pays off as the moment he gave himself away, but they never go back to it.
Deep Space Nine Rewatch
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
Siko's line is followed by a quick reaction shot of MU Jadzia and MU O'Brien looking perplexed. It always felt to me like there was supposed to be a scene later where this pays off as the moment he gave himself away, but they never go back to it.
Interesting, I never thought about that. Or noticed that he called her Dax. IIRC Mirror Ezri wasn't a Dax.
3-20 Improbable Cause
Wow, this was simply amazing. I loved Improbable Cause! I've always liked Garak and most episodes where he shows up. He surely didn't disappoint here with an intriguing spy tale, his tailor shop getting blown up (by himself no less) and his life being threatened. I've also enjoyed Garak's odd "friendship" with Dr. Bashir, but here he is interacting with Odo instead and those scenes totally rocked. It was sheer joy to watch the two of them sparring. That is some great acting.
The continuity with previous episodes was also great. We have the secret fleet the Obsidian Order were building, and the Romulan concern with the Dominion threat. And of course the return of former Cardassian spy master Enabran Tain, who manages to enrol Garak again.
Given the coming belligerence of the Dominion I found it somewhat prudent to take pre-emptive action just like the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order did. If you know that they're going to strike eventually, isn't it best to strike first and try to minimize the threat or at least decimate the enemy? It's not like threats like the Dominion could be appeased. Remember the six-day war?
This is clearly one of the best outings of DS9 I've seen so far. Improbable Cause receives a grade of 9+ on my 10-graded scale. I wish they'd keep this quality up.
3-21 The Die is Cast
The follow-up episode entitled The Die is Cast really lived up to the expectations set by the first part. It features some real cool battles scenes when the joint Romulan/Cardassian fleet gets blown to smithereens by the Jem'Hadar, and I wished those scenes had been longer. But the real action takes place between Odo and Garak in a chilling, yet very moving scene where Garak has to torture Odo for some information about the Founders. Excellent acting and writing. Already a very complex character, we can see that Garak isn't enjoying what he feels he has to do, but he's that desperate to be able to return home to Cardassia. In a heart-breaking moment we see Garak plead to Odo to confess to anything, even if it's a lie. Very good make-up for the deteriorating Odo too. The end scene with the two of them in the remains of Garak's shop were also fantastic. I hope we see more of the two of them.
I liked the revelation that this whole thing had been a trap set up by the Founders (with the Romulan colonel actually being a Founder) so that they could wipe out the threat of the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order. Now all that remains are the Klingons (big laugh) and the Federation. Quite chilling prospects for the Alpha Quadrant.
While I liked that Sisko took action I have to question his motives. It's commendable to try and get your man (Odo) back, but abandoning the station and Bajor like that doesn't seem reasonable to me. It would have been better if he'd been ordered by Starfleet to follow the attack fleet and observe while being cloaked what would happen. I'm sure Starfleet could use that intelligence, especially if things got bad (which they did). I noticed that the Starfleet Admiral wore a yellow shirt, which presumably means he's part of Starfleet Intelligence or Security, and not command like the red-wearing Admiral Nechayev.
Since Duet I haven't given any episode a full grade, but The Die is Cast earns a grade of 10-.
3-22 Explorers
Coming right after the previous action-packed two-parter, the understated Explorers was a nice break for us and allowed the crew to relax a bit. It relied on very little plot and more on some really good character moments. But I have to wonder how Sisko could find the time to construct an ancient Bajoran solar sail vessel from scratch in just a few weeks? And from my understanding of the physics involved, those sails should really be a lot larger. It was nevertheless a beautiful ship.
The Ben and Jake interactions were really good. Sisko is such a good father, but not in an all too sugary sweet way. This is a realistic portrayal of a father and son relationship. It was quite funny when Jake gave his dad some advice on women. And I noticed that this was our first view of Sisko's beard.
The b-plot with Bashir and his old academy classmate wasn't all that engaging, but that was made up for by the hilarious drunken scene between him and O'Brien, singing "Jerusalem" of all songs. Scenes like these humanise the characters in a way the other modern Treks never quite managed to do, especially TNG, who took itself far too seriously. They had the poker game but not much else.
Explorers gets a grade of 7- on my 10-graded scale.
3-23 Family Business
Geez! Why do they insist in making these stupid Ferengi episodes? I realize that they this time opted more a more serious tone and tell a story about family. But these Ferengis are obnoxious caricatures anyway, so I cannot get invested. It's plainly obvious that the writers have no real understanding of capitalism. If the Ferengis are so obsessed with profit why would they exclude their females if they can prove that they also have the lobes for business? And this about the females being naked and chewing the food for the males is just icky! Seeing Quark's mother was just… bleech! While I liked that Rom showed some backbone I found his "moogie" silly and tiresome.
The Sisko gets a date b-plot was better and I liked Kasidy Yates. She ought to be a good partner for him. It was a bit too convenient that her brother had resurrected baseball on the colony where he lived though.
Family Business gets a grade of 2- from me.
Wow, this was simply amazing. I loved Improbable Cause! I've always liked Garak and most episodes where he shows up. He surely didn't disappoint here with an intriguing spy tale, his tailor shop getting blown up (by himself no less) and his life being threatened. I've also enjoyed Garak's odd "friendship" with Dr. Bashir, but here he is interacting with Odo instead and those scenes totally rocked. It was sheer joy to watch the two of them sparring. That is some great acting.
The continuity with previous episodes was also great. We have the secret fleet the Obsidian Order were building, and the Romulan concern with the Dominion threat. And of course the return of former Cardassian spy master Enabran Tain, who manages to enrol Garak again.
Given the coming belligerence of the Dominion I found it somewhat prudent to take pre-emptive action just like the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order did. If you know that they're going to strike eventually, isn't it best to strike first and try to minimize the threat or at least decimate the enemy? It's not like threats like the Dominion could be appeased. Remember the six-day war?
This is clearly one of the best outings of DS9 I've seen so far. Improbable Cause receives a grade of 9+ on my 10-graded scale. I wish they'd keep this quality up.
3-21 The Die is Cast
The follow-up episode entitled The Die is Cast really lived up to the expectations set by the first part. It features some real cool battles scenes when the joint Romulan/Cardassian fleet gets blown to smithereens by the Jem'Hadar, and I wished those scenes had been longer. But the real action takes place between Odo and Garak in a chilling, yet very moving scene where Garak has to torture Odo for some information about the Founders. Excellent acting and writing. Already a very complex character, we can see that Garak isn't enjoying what he feels he has to do, but he's that desperate to be able to return home to Cardassia. In a heart-breaking moment we see Garak plead to Odo to confess to anything, even if it's a lie. Very good make-up for the deteriorating Odo too. The end scene with the two of them in the remains of Garak's shop were also fantastic. I hope we see more of the two of them.
I liked the revelation that this whole thing had been a trap set up by the Founders (with the Romulan colonel actually being a Founder) so that they could wipe out the threat of the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order. Now all that remains are the Klingons (big laugh) and the Federation. Quite chilling prospects for the Alpha Quadrant.
While I liked that Sisko took action I have to question his motives. It's commendable to try and get your man (Odo) back, but abandoning the station and Bajor like that doesn't seem reasonable to me. It would have been better if he'd been ordered by Starfleet to follow the attack fleet and observe while being cloaked what would happen. I'm sure Starfleet could use that intelligence, especially if things got bad (which they did). I noticed that the Starfleet Admiral wore a yellow shirt, which presumably means he's part of Starfleet Intelligence or Security, and not command like the red-wearing Admiral Nechayev.
Since Duet I haven't given any episode a full grade, but The Die is Cast earns a grade of 10-.
3-22 Explorers
Coming right after the previous action-packed two-parter, the understated Explorers was a nice break for us and allowed the crew to relax a bit. It relied on very little plot and more on some really good character moments. But I have to wonder how Sisko could find the time to construct an ancient Bajoran solar sail vessel from scratch in just a few weeks? And from my understanding of the physics involved, those sails should really be a lot larger. It was nevertheless a beautiful ship.
The Ben and Jake interactions were really good. Sisko is such a good father, but not in an all too sugary sweet way. This is a realistic portrayal of a father and son relationship. It was quite funny when Jake gave his dad some advice on women. And I noticed that this was our first view of Sisko's beard.
The b-plot with Bashir and his old academy classmate wasn't all that engaging, but that was made up for by the hilarious drunken scene between him and O'Brien, singing "Jerusalem" of all songs. Scenes like these humanise the characters in a way the other modern Treks never quite managed to do, especially TNG, who took itself far too seriously. They had the poker game but not much else.
Explorers gets a grade of 7- on my 10-graded scale.
3-23 Family Business
Geez! Why do they insist in making these stupid Ferengi episodes? I realize that they this time opted more a more serious tone and tell a story about family. But these Ferengis are obnoxious caricatures anyway, so I cannot get invested. It's plainly obvious that the writers have no real understanding of capitalism. If the Ferengis are so obsessed with profit why would they exclude their females if they can prove that they also have the lobes for business? And this about the females being naked and chewing the food for the males is just icky! Seeing Quark's mother was just… bleech! While I liked that Rom showed some backbone I found his "moogie" silly and tiresome.
The Sisko gets a date b-plot was better and I liked Kasidy Yates. She ought to be a good partner for him. It was a bit too convenient that her brother had resurrected baseball on the colony where he lived though.
Family Business gets a grade of 2- from me.
I'm watching Rejoined right now. Man I'm seeing Susanna Thompson a lot. I just started Arrow this week and she's Oliver's mother. She was also a borg queen and she was in DS9. She feels as prolific a guest actor as someone like tony Todd or James Sloyan.
And I finish off the third season:
3-24 Shakaar
Shakaar was an episode that seemed promising but eventually failed to fulfil on its promises. I usually like stories about Bajoran politics but this one didn't accomplish much in the end, besides introducing what I assume will be a new recurring character in Shakaar. Kai Winn gets elevated to the position as First Minister (in a non-separation of religion and government fashion) only to lose it in the end. And one has to wonder whatever happened to her former associate Jaro.
I liked the camaraderie displayed between the former Bajoran resistance fighters and the fact that they weren't ready to shot at each other. That felt sincere. I didn't quite get what the conflict was all about. If it was just a matter of scarce soil "replimats" couldn't just the rich Federation have lent a hand? Or would that go against the inane 24th century interpretation of the prime directive?
Kai Winn is quite a puzzle. I wish the writers would make up their minds regarding her and her motivations. From episode to episode it's hard to tell if she's just plain evil, or a misguided albeit idealistic religious leader, or a power-hungry political player? One thing is certain and that is that for someone to have managed to achieve such an exalted position, she seems much too incompetent. Why would she risk her position by putting Bajornas against Bajorans over some farm equipment? She really seems out of her element.
The subplot about O'Brien being on a lucky streak throwing darts felt out of place and didn't do anything for me. I'm also surprised at Sisko for just accepting that Kira went off to Bajor to join a rebellion like that.
I'll give Shakaar an average grade of 5+.
3-25 Facets
What could've been a further interesting glimpse into Trill society instead not only felt uninteresting but also managed to break previously established continuity. It doesn't help that I normally find Jadzia Dax a bland and fairly uninteresting character to begin with. On paper it probably looked like a nifty idea to actually see Dax's previous hosts inhabiting the bodies of our characters and interacting with Jadzia. But it mostly fell flat, with the exception of Sisko-as-Joran (Equilibrium). That was truly chilling. I got mostly annoyed with Odo-as-Curzon. That is perhaps because I have a hard time standing people like him in real life.
My main gripe though is that it was strange indeed to now learn that a lot of memories from previous hosts are hidden to the current one. It is one thing to break continuity with previous Trek shows - as they indeed have with the Trill between TNG and DS9 - but here they break the intra-continuity on DS9. Given that we knew that each new host has the memories of the previous ones (the thing that allows Jadzia to be Sisko's "old man" friend) I found it odd, to say the least, that they could in fact hide a lot of important things, such as Curzon being in love with Jadzia.
I liked the b-plot with Nog taking Starfleet entrance tests much better. It was great to see Rom getting really furious with Quark for tampering with the holo-test and standing up for his son.
Facets receives a grade of 4+. The Nog story saved it from being lower.
3-26 The Adversary
Reading the DS9 Companion I understand that this was not what they originally planned to end the season with. They had an idea about a cliffhanger that the studio nixed and thus they had to come up with this one fast. Given this knowledge I can excuse The Adversary for not packing the punch that one should expect of a season finale. Still, it was a very good episode and I enjoyed it.
The plot reminded me a lot about The Thing, this time set in the isolated confines of the Defiant. It made clever use of the paranoia when everyone suspected everyone for being the changeling. It is quite chilling to learn that they can be anyone and, as was revealed in the end, that they indeed are everywhere already.
It was rather sad for Odo to first confess to never having killed anyone, and then have him kill one of his own people. Not only was it his first kill, but he was also apparently the first changeling to break the rule that they don't harm each other. There were some really good effects scenes there as well.
And finally Sisko gets the promotion to Captain that he should have had from the beginning. I never quite understood why they'd make a lowly Commander the commanding officer of such a strategically important place. Every Starbase has normally has a Commodore in charge (at least in TOS, by now I suppose they have Admirals).
I liked the references to the Tzenkethi, but was a bit miffed that we never got to see them. I'm curious as to what part they have played in Earth/Federation history. There has apparently been a recent war with them, and some have speculated that they're the same as Larry Niven's Kzinti from the animated series, which would mean that they had a conflict with Earth before the Federation was formed (and before ENT too I take it).
I'll give the third season finale The Adversary a grade of 7- on my 10-graded scale.
Season Three Overview
The third season was as uneven as the second season, in fact it was more so. It did have some really good arc-related stories but unfortunately it also contained some real stinkers. I gave three episodes a grade of 1, which never happened in the second season, and that pulls down the average even if there were some excellent ones (such as the Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast two-parter). I'm not sure what the coming seasons hold, but I can tell that the shake-up they did was necessary. Two roller coaster, high-and-low seasons in a row was enough. They've shown that they can make some riveting stories and character moments, so why mix those with really sub-par episodes?
On the character front there is a noticeable absence of O'Brien many times. I understand that was to accommodate actor Colm Meaney so he could do other projects, but nevertheless I missed him when he wasn't around. Even more absent (but not missed that much) was Keiko. This allowed for O'Brien's and Bashir's friendship to develop and that is something I liked. I still can't get interested in Jadzia. And whatever they're planning with Odo/Kira I'm sure I'm not going to like it. Sisko continues to grow as a Trek Captain - now with full rank pips. I like him, his command style and his relationships with the others, especially his son.
Summing up my episode grades I come to an average season grade of 5.32, which translates to a 5+ on my 10-graded scale. This is actually a bit lower than season two, and you have the three stinkers to thank for that.
3-24 Shakaar
Shakaar was an episode that seemed promising but eventually failed to fulfil on its promises. I usually like stories about Bajoran politics but this one didn't accomplish much in the end, besides introducing what I assume will be a new recurring character in Shakaar. Kai Winn gets elevated to the position as First Minister (in a non-separation of religion and government fashion) only to lose it in the end. And one has to wonder whatever happened to her former associate Jaro.
I liked the camaraderie displayed between the former Bajoran resistance fighters and the fact that they weren't ready to shot at each other. That felt sincere. I didn't quite get what the conflict was all about. If it was just a matter of scarce soil "replimats" couldn't just the rich Federation have lent a hand? Or would that go against the inane 24th century interpretation of the prime directive?
Kai Winn is quite a puzzle. I wish the writers would make up their minds regarding her and her motivations. From episode to episode it's hard to tell if she's just plain evil, or a misguided albeit idealistic religious leader, or a power-hungry political player? One thing is certain and that is that for someone to have managed to achieve such an exalted position, she seems much too incompetent. Why would she risk her position by putting Bajornas against Bajorans over some farm equipment? She really seems out of her element.
The subplot about O'Brien being on a lucky streak throwing darts felt out of place and didn't do anything for me. I'm also surprised at Sisko for just accepting that Kira went off to Bajor to join a rebellion like that.
I'll give Shakaar an average grade of 5+.
3-25 Facets
What could've been a further interesting glimpse into Trill society instead not only felt uninteresting but also managed to break previously established continuity. It doesn't help that I normally find Jadzia Dax a bland and fairly uninteresting character to begin with. On paper it probably looked like a nifty idea to actually see Dax's previous hosts inhabiting the bodies of our characters and interacting with Jadzia. But it mostly fell flat, with the exception of Sisko-as-Joran (Equilibrium). That was truly chilling. I got mostly annoyed with Odo-as-Curzon. That is perhaps because I have a hard time standing people like him in real life.
My main gripe though is that it was strange indeed to now learn that a lot of memories from previous hosts are hidden to the current one. It is one thing to break continuity with previous Trek shows - as they indeed have with the Trill between TNG and DS9 - but here they break the intra-continuity on DS9. Given that we knew that each new host has the memories of the previous ones (the thing that allows Jadzia to be Sisko's "old man" friend) I found it odd, to say the least, that they could in fact hide a lot of important things, such as Curzon being in love with Jadzia.
I liked the b-plot with Nog taking Starfleet entrance tests much better. It was great to see Rom getting really furious with Quark for tampering with the holo-test and standing up for his son.
Facets receives a grade of 4+. The Nog story saved it from being lower.
3-26 The Adversary
Reading the DS9 Companion I understand that this was not what they originally planned to end the season with. They had an idea about a cliffhanger that the studio nixed and thus they had to come up with this one fast. Given this knowledge I can excuse The Adversary for not packing the punch that one should expect of a season finale. Still, it was a very good episode and I enjoyed it.
The plot reminded me a lot about The Thing, this time set in the isolated confines of the Defiant. It made clever use of the paranoia when everyone suspected everyone for being the changeling. It is quite chilling to learn that they can be anyone and, as was revealed in the end, that they indeed are everywhere already.
It was rather sad for Odo to first confess to never having killed anyone, and then have him kill one of his own people. Not only was it his first kill, but he was also apparently the first changeling to break the rule that they don't harm each other. There were some really good effects scenes there as well.
And finally Sisko gets the promotion to Captain that he should have had from the beginning. I never quite understood why they'd make a lowly Commander the commanding officer of such a strategically important place. Every Starbase has normally has a Commodore in charge (at least in TOS, by now I suppose they have Admirals).
I liked the references to the Tzenkethi, but was a bit miffed that we never got to see them. I'm curious as to what part they have played in Earth/Federation history. There has apparently been a recent war with them, and some have speculated that they're the same as Larry Niven's Kzinti from the animated series, which would mean that they had a conflict with Earth before the Federation was formed (and before ENT too I take it).
I'll give the third season finale The Adversary a grade of 7- on my 10-graded scale.
Season Three Overview
The third season was as uneven as the second season, in fact it was more so. It did have some really good arc-related stories but unfortunately it also contained some real stinkers. I gave three episodes a grade of 1, which never happened in the second season, and that pulls down the average even if there were some excellent ones (such as the Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast two-parter). I'm not sure what the coming seasons hold, but I can tell that the shake-up they did was necessary. Two roller coaster, high-and-low seasons in a row was enough. They've shown that they can make some riveting stories and character moments, so why mix those with really sub-par episodes?
On the character front there is a noticeable absence of O'Brien many times. I understand that was to accommodate actor Colm Meaney so he could do other projects, but nevertheless I missed him when he wasn't around. Even more absent (but not missed that much) was Keiko. This allowed for O'Brien's and Bashir's friendship to develop and that is something I liked. I still can't get interested in Jadzia. And whatever they're planning with Odo/Kira I'm sure I'm not going to like it. Sisko continues to grow as a Trek Captain - now with full rank pips. I like him, his command style and his relationships with the others, especially his son.
Summing up my episode grades I come to an average season grade of 5.32, which translates to a 5+ on my 10-graded scale. This is actually a bit lower than season two, and you have the three stinkers to thank for that.
Regarding your criticism of Starfleet not assigning a Captain to DS9, while we can ruminate about behind-the-scenes reasoning, in-universe it's worth remembering that originally DS9 wasn't strategically important. Heck, it arguably didn't become so until the end of S2 and first contact with the Dominion.
I suspect the Ferengi males used similiar arguments to deny women the right to earn profit that some used to deny women the vote on Earth
DS9 was a backwater. Its CO was someone of commander rank who was thinking about quitting Star Fleet before he was assigned there. Their engineer was a tech without formal credentials to get an engineering job at better assignment. The doctor says he chose what other people consider an undesirable job for a chance to work in the hinterlands. Then they discover the wormhole, which has religious significance to the local people and is a potential commercial/military resource for the Federation, taking this from a backwater to the crossroads.
It makes perfect sense in-universe and for the show premise that the CO should be a commander. It's the same reason their chief engineer is a self-taught tech.
I saw the episode "Sacrifice of Angels" last night on the H&I channel. I felt cheated by the writers. The final act was enormously disappointing. What could have been a dramatic decisive battle between the Defiant and the Dominion ships in the wormhole, was not to be. Instead of a bang, the writers gave us a whimper.
The divine intervention that made all those Jem'hadar disappear in the wormhole was too easy of a way out of the story. But more importantly, there was no drama to it. I wanted to see a shoot out.
By the way, I thought it was curious that Sisko, in the prelude to the battle to recapture DS9, quoted the saying "Fortune favors the bold". Kirk in TVH expressed something similar, yet different, when he said "May fortune favor the foolish."
The divine intervention that made all those Jem'hadar disappear in the wormhole was too easy of a way out of the story. But more importantly, there was no drama to it. I wanted to see a shoot out.
By the way, I thought it was curious that Sisko, in the prelude to the battle to recapture DS9, quoted the saying "Fortune favors the bold". Kirk in TVH expressed something similar, yet different, when he said "May fortune favor the foolish."
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I'd add that, considering the overall mythology of the series, the way things play out makes some sense.
Make no mistake, I'll be the first to admit it's somewhat of a literal deus ex machina. But it's not as though we'd never heard of the Prophets before. More to the point, I've never seen anyone come up with a better solution to the situation.
Make no mistake, I'll be the first to admit it's somewhat of a literal deus ex machina. But it's not as though we'd never heard of the Prophets before. More to the point, I've never seen anyone come up with a better solution to the situation.
I'm still rewatching the series but I got into Arrow in a Big way that my DS9 watching has been somewhat put on hold. I did watch Sword of Khaless last night and to be honest, I'm bored of those kind of Klingon stories. Way to make two Klingon favorites be annoying, writers. At least it allowed Farrell to yell or something. As much as I love season 4, this episode might be the second weakest episode after Muse for me.
Our Man Bashir is still a great episode even after repeated viewings. Yeah you get the whole Bond kick, but what really stands out in this episode was Garak, of course. Loved him being the outsider looking at the audacity of it all, and his one liners are some of DS9's finest, like "Kiss the girl, get the key, they never tought us that in the obsidian order".
Also, was this the first episode that showed Rom as being good at something. Feels like this is where he started to turn to being an engineer, as we would later see in Bar Association.
Also, was this the first episode that showed Rom as being good at something. Feels like this is where he started to turn to being an engineer, as we would later see in Bar Association.
I'm into season 7, and I'm I the only one who thinks Dr bashir seems to be spending too much time at a station on the bridge, than in sickbay?
I'm into season 7, and I'm I the only one who thinks Dr bashir seems to be spending too much time at a station on the bridge, than in sickbay?
Wasn't that the case with Crusher too?
I'm almost caught up with Arrow so I will get back to DS9 eventually.
