Decker's First Officer?

[Red Ranger]

People:

I checked Memory Alpha and Memory Beta before I decided to post this, but they didn't answer my question. Perhaps it's explained in the novelization of TMP, but I don't have a copy.

We know Willard Decker was supposed to be captain of Enterprise before James Kirk uses the V'Ger emergency to resume command of the ship. After Kirk takes command and temporarily demotes Decker, he winds up as first officer and science officer after Commander Sonak, his science officer, dies in a transporter accident.

My question is simple: Was Sonak also supposed to double as first officer and science officer like Spock? Nowhere does it mention who would've been first officer if Decker had remained in command of Enterprise. It's kind of implied that would've been the case, but there's no concrete lines indicating it. For all we know, Lieutenant Commander Sulu was supposed to be first officer. I do doubt that only because, while Sonak is listed as a lieutenant commander in the credits, he clearly is wearing a full commander's braids, making him Sulu's superior.

Anyone here remember if there's an explanation in the novel, or if there's ever been a novel with an answer?

Red Ranger

 

[Therin of Andor]

Anyone here remember if there's an explanation in the novel, or if there's ever been a novel with an answer?

TMP (and "Phase II") deliberately kept it vague.

Christopher L Bennett has a little fun speculating in "Ex Machina", an excellent novel set about three weeks after TMP.

Brad Ferguson's "A Flag Full of Stars" features Decker during the refit, and there's Diane Duane's short story "Night Whispers" in "Enterprise Logs", but I'm fairly sure it's not addressed in those.

 

[J.T.B.]

My question is simple: Was Sonak also supposed to double as first officer and science officer like Spock? Nowhere does it mention who would've been first officer if Decker had remained in command of Enterprise. It's kind of implied that would've been the case, but there's no concrete lines indicating it. For all we know, Lieutenant Commander Sulu was supposed to be first officer. I do doubt that only because, while Sonak is listed as a lieutenant commander in the credits, he clearly is wearing a full commander's braids, making him Sulu's superior.

Anyone here remember if there's an explanation in the novel, or if there's ever been a novel with an answer?

IIRC it is not addressed in the novel. I've skimmed through it and can't find anything. Sonak is a possibility, but I don't think it's really likely. I would think that the XO would be one of the first assigned to work on completing the refit, while the science officer would be less critical in that phase, and Sonak seems to be arriving sort of last-minute. He also doesn't wear a white badge, but I suppose that is not conclusive because Spock wore a science uniform instead of command division.

My impression is that Spock's two-hat status in TOS is rather exceptional.

Sonak is a full commander, but apparently the TMP 1701 has commanders as department heads (Scotty, McCoy). Exeter in "The Omega Glory" also had a full commander as surgeon.

More likely is that Decker's exec was someone never seen in the movie. Maybe busy in some Jeffries tube somewhere before getting underway, he emerged to find that he had been reassigned as operations officer or some other starship department head we don't know about, and toiled away in obscurity for the rest of the film. That would bump someone else down to assistant (whatever) officer, and so on down the line, but I doubt anyone would be "sent ashore" because they seem to have a personnel shortage.

--Justin

 

[Red Ranger]

The reason I assume Sonak also doubled as first officer is because that's how it was with Spock, and it seemed to me they were emulating the same command structure in TMP. I do agree that Spock was an exception, and probably few people in Starfleet doubled up in both positions, as each position requires a lot of time to fulfill the myriad responsibilities. And as we saw from TNG onward, that kind of doubling up rarely happens. --RR

 

[MarianLH]

Perhaps the other person who died with Sonak in the transporter accident could be an unnamed first officer. Although I know in the novelization it's Kirk's vice admiral paramour.


Marian

 

[The Old Mixer]

Seems like Scotty would have been the senior line officer. Was he a full Commander in the movie?

 

[Red Ranger]

Perhaps the other person who died with Sonak in the transporter accident could be an unnamed first officer. Although I know in the novelization it's Kirk's vice admiral paramour.


Marian

Hmm, not a bad idea to shoehorn that in, since it's not canon who the other officer is. However, maybe this unnamed first officer was told to stay to be reassigned to another starship, since with Kirk and Decker as c.o. and x.o., he/she would've been redundant. -- RR

 

[tenmei]

Wouldn't they have said if it was Decker's First Officer, though? And not just mentioned Sonak? I wonder how Chapel felt about being bumped from the CMO position?

 

[Data Holmes]

I always took it that Sulu was the "next in line", but wasn't the XO. He would have been the first officer, similar to the brit model with the position of first lieutenant.

So before kirk it was:
Decker
Sulu
maybe scotty


after kirk came in it went
kirk
decker
sulu
scotty/spock

following the post tmp time, spock was promoted to captain, and took over as co of the enterprise. Sulu was set to be promoted to captain, but that got delayed with the rescue of spock and the trial. Chekov was transfered to the Reliant, and promoted to First officer. Scott gets promoted to captain at the start of TSFS. By the time of V, Chekov was taking over as first officer for the Enterprise from Sulu, who was only along for the mission before his promotion went through when the Excelsior was in dock, and perhaps looking at the center seat when the rest of the command crew retired.

 

[Rÿcher]

Commander Sonak wasn't assigned to the Enterprise yet until Admiral Kirk sent him there prior to his meeting with Nogura.

My guess is it would have been Sulu - the senior most officer on the bridge which is where a first officer would be.

Excellent question by the way!

 

[Tomalak]

Commander Sonak wasn't assigned to the Enterprise yet until Admiral Kirk sent him there prior to his meeting with Nogura.

My guess is it would have been Sulu - the senior most officer on the bridge which is where a first officer would be.

Excellent question by the way!

Something else for Takei to moan about. Damn you Shatner.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Seems like Scotty would have been the senior line officer. Was he a full Commander in the movie?

He (Scotty) is the Chief Engineer, though -- different career path.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Red Ranger]

Seems like Scotty would have been the senior line officer. Was he a full Commander in the movie?

He (Scotty) is the Chief Engineer, though -- different career path.

Cheers,
-CM-

While this is true, it does contradict the role we saw Scotty in during TOS. When Kirk and Spock were off the ship, he usually got command, so he was kind of the de facto second officer. Now, his role probably changed as of TMP, just as while McCoy was also a full commander, he wasn't a bridge officer and never took command of the ship. Perhaps as of TMP, Scotty was reclassified as a line officer/restricted duty, engineering. We see in some of the other movies, for example, Chekov taking command instead of Scotty. -- RR

 

[Basill]

I really think it was Sulu, or it may even be possible that the position hadn't been filled yet. Recall, this was an emergency situation that caught Starfleet totally off-guard. There may have been strong candidates, but they were still quite a way's off from putting the ship back into full commission. Sonak almost certainly was not a candidate, nor the female that died next to him in the transporter accident. As noted, Sonak had just received his appointment. And although she had some back story in the novel, in the film it almost appears Kirk doesn't even know the identity of the other victim.

Scotty certainly handled the XO position frequently (and top notch) in the past, but with the ship totally refurbished with untested equipment, he was far too vital in his role as chief engineer. Sulu on the other hand was on the career path, and would eventually make captain as we would see. Now that may not have been the intention at the time of filming, but he is Kirk's first choice after Decker insists on joining the V'Ger party, so to me Sulu seems the most likely choice.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Interesting ideas, everyone.

 

[Timo]

I'd think it possible that out of the onboard officers, the XO was the most important person in managing the refit, and therefore stayed where the heart of the action was - that is, ashore. When the ship suddenly went from refit status to active status, he, she or it was caught in the wrong place. By the time things got cleared up, Kirk had already turned Captain Decker into his XO, making it unnecessary to beam up more of the originally assigned personnel. Kirk would of course keep on beaming up his own personal picks like McCoy, ignoring Decker's preferences.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Old Mixer]

Seems like Scotty would have been the senior line officer. Was he a full Commander in the movie?

He (Scotty) is the Chief Engineer, though -- different career path.

Cheers,
-CM-

While this is true, it does contradict the role we saw Scotty in during TOS. When Kirk and Spock were off the ship, he usually got command, so he was kind of the de facto second officer. Now, his role probably changed as of TMP, just as while McCoy was also a full commander, he wasn't a bridge officer and never took command of the ship. Perhaps as of TMP, Scotty was reclassified as a line officer/restricted duty, engineering. We see in some of the other movies, for example, Chekov taking command instead of Scotty. -- RR

In the real Navy, engineers are prime candidates for command positions, especially on nuclear wessals. But yeah, I can see how his position below decks would necessite forfeiture of active first officer duties, even though he definitely had seniority over Sulu. So I imagine he was still Second Officer.

Refresh my memory--when Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Decker leave the ship to go see V'ger, who does Kirk leave in command?

 

[Basill]

Refresh my memory--when Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Decker leave the ship to go see V'ger, who does Kirk leave in command?

"Mr. Sulu... You have the conn."

Of course, Scotty was standing by in engineering with his hand on the matter/anti-matter trigger.

 

[Peacemaker]

Seems like Scotty would have been the senior line officer. Was he a full Commander in the movie?

He (Scotty) is the Chief Engineer, though -- different career path.

Cheers,
-CM-

While this is true, it does contradict the role we saw Scotty in during TOS. When Kirk and Spock were off the ship, he usually got command, so he was kind of the de facto second officer. Now, his role probably changed as of TMP, just as while McCoy was also a full commander, he wasn't a bridge officer and never took command of the ship. Perhaps as of TMP, Scotty was reclassified as a line officer/restricted duty, engineering. We see in some of the other movies, for example, Chekov taking command instead of Scotty. -- RR

This likely correct. Remember, in TMP, that warp core configuration was brand new, untested except in simulation. Would you really want Scotty to be a command officer who could get called to the bridge at a moment's notice, or would you want your Chief of Engineering in Engineering, under those conditions?

 

[Red Ranger]

I'd think it possible that out of the onboard officers, the XO was the most important person in managing the refit, and therefore stayed where the heart of the action was - that is, ashore. When the ship suddenly went from refit status to active status, he, she or it was caught in the wrong place. By the time things got cleared up, Kirk had already turned Captain Decker into his XO, making it unnecessary to beam up more of the originally assigned personnel. Kirk would of course keep on beaming up his own personal picks like McCoy, ignoring Decker's preferences.

Timo Saloniemi

Your explanation of where the mystery XO went makes sense to me. Except for one little quibble. When Kirk asks for a replacement for Sonak, preferably a Vulcan, Decker says there's no one available who's even fully rated on the new design -- except for Decker, and that's when Kirk tells him he's doubling as science and first officer. -- RR