Decker.....I want this....

[Therin of Andor]

I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

It gets better. After a long, drawn-out likeness approval battle, and refusing to sign for "Phase II", Leonard Nimoy managed an ongoing "favoured nations" contract with TMP and beyond: anything Shatner got, he got, automatically. No more second banana for Nimoy.

Then Nimoy was able to maneuver to direct two movies, so Shatner was able, contractually, to insist on directing ST V.

 

[CoveTom]

^ I've always wondered about how that whole "favored nations" thing worked in reality. I've heard Shatner and Nimoy both talk about it on occasion. But there are specific things that make me go "hmm".

For example, did Nimoy receive the same fee as Shatner for acting in TSFS despite the fact that he has maybe 5 minutes of screen time, if that? In his book, I Am Spock, he makes it clear that his fee for directing was separate from his fee for acting.

Also, could Shatner have insisted on directing VI despite the failure of V because Nimoy had gotten to direct two films? Could Paramount have simply said "yeah, we have to let you direct if you want, but if you insist on that, then we just won't make the film" or was there something that would have compelled them to make the film anyway?

Just some things to consider...

 

[Therin of Andor]

For example, did Nimoy receive the same fee as Shatner for acting in TSFS despite the fact that he has maybe 5 minutes of screen time, if that? In his book, I Am Spock, he makes it clear that his fee for directing was separate from his fee for acting.

Well, we'll never know, but Nimoy doesn't receive his usual billing in ST III. There's a gap between Shatner's and Kelly's names flashing up on the screen. This was done to keep the surprise going, but... Hollywood puts a lot of careful planning into credits. They can have great meaning, esp. when Oscar-winners in significant roles choose to decline billing (eg. Whoopi Goldberg in "First Contact", who didn't want to overshadow her friend Patrick Stewart's first headlining film.) On the ST III call sheets, "Frank Force" as "Nacluv" (Vulcan spelled backwards) had a high number, matching his "supporting cast in order of appearance" rank, not Nimoy's usual #2. "Frank Force" also supplied the voice of the USS Excelsior's elevator. Maybe "Frank Force" was treated as a guest artist in this film, and had an acting contract to match?

Also, could Shatner have insisted on directing VI despite the failure of V because Nimoy had gotten to direct two films?

Yes. Shatner supposedly politely declined to direct and the studio (and Exec Producer Nimoy) breathed a sigh of relief.

Could Paramount have simply said "yeah, we have to let you direct if you want, but if you insist on that, then we just won't make the film" or was there something that would have compelled them to make the film anyway?

IIRC, it was one of many logistical hurdles that had to be overcome to finally allowed ST VI to happen. There was a big anniversary year fast approaching and this time everyone believed it was the last chance to do one more film and try to go out on a high. But if Shatner had have stamped his feet, they may have had to pay him out, which again would have led to ST VI's budget not being viable, or at least tell him he'd have to wait for ST VII.

A director usually stands or falls on his or her last picture. Had "Insurrection" made heaps, Jonathan Frakes would probably have been offered "Nemesis" - and it may not have had the Baird stamp all over it. (Although Paramount did owe Baird a directing gig.)

 

[Christopher]

(Although Paramount did owe Baird a directing gig.)

He also directed U.S. Marshals, the Fugitive sequel, didn't he? (Although since then, he seems to have gone back to editing. I just recently saw him listed as editor for Green Lantern, which is interesting, since he also edited Superman: The Movie decades earlier.)

 

[CoveTom]

^ Yes, Baird has directed three films: U.S. Marshals, Executive Decision, and Nemesis. The first I haven't seen so I can't comment on. Executive Decision was actually pretty well done, and certainly competently directed. I don't think that Baird is a bad director per se, but I think he was horribly matched with Nemesis. Bard had come in and saved Paramount's butt by doing last minute editing on Mission: Impossible 2 and they had promised him a directing gig in return. He got Nemesis not because they thought he was the best choice, but because they owed him a project. That led to disaster, and probably ended his directing career.

 

[HaventGotALife]

"as much as you want the Enterprise...."I" Want this..."

Was just catching TMP on sci-fi tonight and remembered when I first saw it on cable way back in the day.

as a kid I was THRILLED to hear these words!

Was anyone else rooting for Decker to go away in full agreement with him?

I found him annoying and how dare he "compete" with our captain kirk!

of course now as an adult....and a little wiser, I actually like Decker now. heh heh

I don't like the tension between Kirk and Decker in that movie. I think his reaction to losing command is childish. I think it's as bad as Kirk trying to wrestle command just because he can. It seems unworthy of Star Trek. Cheap tension as far as I was concerned. And there were no consequences for them being indecisive on the bridge. It never affected the mission and that made it meaningless ultimately.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Yeah you gotta think about what the "this" is in Decker's declaration. Particularly since three days ago, he didn't even know about V'ger.

So what is this "this" thing?
Being the man to save Earth?
Giving his life in the line of duty like his father?
Rejoining with Ilia forever?
Evolving into a higher lifeform?
Learning the ultimate knowledge that V'ger acquired?
Boldly going where no man has gone before?

I've always interpreted that line to show that he was mourning Ilia and didn't want to live without her. Maybe I'm wrong, but what is the point of their romance, to see her die, if he doesn't want to be with her, if he's not devastated by it? From a dramatic standpoint it doesn't make much sense.

I think saving earth is important, but anyone could've joined with V-GER. As for Spock, V-Ger would get more of the same--logic.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Yeah you gotta think about what the "this" is in Decker's declaration. Particularly since three days ago, he didn't even know about V'ger.

The novelization indicates that they do understand that V'ger is preparing to "unite physically with the Creator" and suddenly Decker is intending to be the person to join with the entity. Kirk wants to be the person to decide who gets to do it. Spock tells him to let Decker proceed because Decker "knows exactly what he's doing."

It's only after the "transcendence" (as Spock calls it in the novelization) has started that the Ilia Probe steps into the event, so Decker is certainly not doing this just to be with Ilia again.

What "ST Phase II" was intending to do with Decker, over the mooted series: to develop the backstory of his mother's membership in the New Human Movement (also mentioned in the novelization), a quest for humans to develop a hive mind.

 

[Maurice]

What "ST Phase II" was intending to do with Decker, over the mooted series: to develop the backstory of his mother's membership in the New Human Movement (also mentioned in the novelization), a quest for humans to develop a hive mind.

I've never seen this in reference to anything from Phase II, just the novelization. Where did you read this?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I've never seen this in reference to anything from Phase II, just the novelization. Where did you read this?

I'm pretty sure the New Humans per se aren't mentioned in the "Star Trek (Phase) II" writers' bible, but Decker was supposed to be a different breed of Starfleet officer than Kirk. Maybe this pinning down of his character's background only took shape between the writing of the series bible and the writing of the novelization? After all, they had not settled on casting of Decker for the series until suddenly they were casting for a movie. I don't have my "Phase II" bible or scripts handy. Is there something in the stage notes of "In Thy Image", maybe?