Deathwish

[at Quark's]

So in this episode, Quinn wants to commit suicide, and 'our' Q represents the position of the 'Q establishment'. And he seems to be quite convinced that's the correct position.

Then, suddenly, we get this near the end:

JANEWAY: So how did he get his hands on Nogatch hemlock?
Q: I got it for him.
TUVOK: You assisted his suicide?
Q: Illogical, Tuvok? 1 don't think so. By demanding to end his life, he taught me a little something about my own. He was right when he said the Continuum scared me back in line. I didn't have his courage or his convictions. He called me irrepressible. This was a man who was truly irrepressible. I only hope I make a worthy student.
JANEWAY: I imagine the Continuum won't be very happy with you, Q.
Q: I certainly hope not. Au revoir, Madam Captain. We will meet again.

While I can buy the 'scared me back in line' explanation, I still think it's a quite sudden reversal of position, and I thought this was a bit jarring. Did more people experience it that way, or was it a plausible turn of events in your opinion?

 

[Oddish]

It was the Reset Button. Quinn needed to be disposed of by next episode, so...

 

[at Quark's]

It was the Reset Button. Quinn needed to be disposed of by next episode, so...

Sure, I get that. But why make his very antagonist his accomplice, couldn't they have found another way to achieve that?

Even though I also understand this was a hook for future Q episodes. Unfortunately, steadily decreasing in quality, but that wasn't the fault of Deathwish.

 

[Oddish]

The first half of "The Q and the Gray" was actually pretty fun. You could see that Kate Mulgrew and John de Lancie were friends, the way they played off each other.

It's too bad that Quinn couldn't have stayed around awhile... experienced mortality, as well as death. It would have made an interesting plotline.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

So in this episode, Quinn wants to commit suicide, and 'our' Q represents the position of the 'Q establishment'. And he seems to be quite convinced that's the correct position.

Then, suddenly, we get this near the end:



While I can buy the 'scared me back in line' explanation, I still think it's a quite sudden reversal of position, and I thought this was a bit jarring. Did more people experience it that way, or was it a plausible turn of events in your opinion?

I figured Q spent the episode representing a position he didn't really hold, but was advocating due to pressure from whatever passes for Q leadership.

 

[NCC-73515]

Maybe Q's death (PIC S2) was Quinn-inspired suicide

 

[Farscape One]

I figured Q spent the episode representing a position he didn't really hold, but was advocating due to pressure from whatever passes for Q leadership.

That was my impression, as well.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I figured Q spent the episode representing a position he didn't really hold, but was advocating due to pressure from whatever passes for Q leadership.

This is it exactly. Q’s been scared back in line by the Continuum, and he specifically is tasked to be the upholder of the social order BECAUSE he is “reformed” from his ways - he’s “found his way back into the fold,” it’s an example for Quinn of a Q who becomes a “proper Q” after a few millennia of irresponsibility.

And Quinn sees the message for what it is. So by the time he’s making his defense of his right to die, he’s not just speaking to Janeway as the arbiter. He’s speaking to Q and bringing back that spark of rebellion, giving Q the courage and strength to act against the Continuum, help him do what he sought.

 

[Qonundrum]

It all also begs the question of, among too many other things, Q being immortal and omnipotent and other words that start with "o", as stated in "Q Who"...

...Immortal, barring accidents or one* wanting to die because - as far as omnipotent critters are - he feel bored so that's when then Q continuum deliberates over if they should help him die or should encourage him to do something differe-- **

But a regular "species of the week", along with a different "cause for the concept of the week", may have been a better option for this "concept of the week" and just keep the Q and their mystique alone. Not every species is going to be human, demystifying a group so epic invariably falls flat, and imposing human values across the galaxy isn't always a compelling plot point - especially to one that's demonstrably far higher and other than any other lifeform the Federation has ever met.

* or many more, rather. If a Q knows everything, then why aren't the lot of them unaware of other species such as lemmings*** and do the same stupid thing?

** that otherwise would lead into a huge couple pages' chock full of tasty paragraphs that are the GOAT**** of digressions

*** as based on some dumb myth that they all jump off a cliff after being told they're all from planet Krypton now transported to Earth with its pretty yellow sunshine

**** and I tend to love digressing without realizing it...

 

[at Quark's]

I don't believe the Q are 'omnipotent' to begin with. I find Quinn's explanation - that they're simply far in advance of us- way more plausible.

That's not even considering the logical paradoxes that would come with 'omnipotence'.

Immortal? Perhaps. But we've seen they can die.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

As Clarke puts it, sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. And once you get to a point where you are functionally performing magic, the next step in that progression is that sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from divinity. The power of Q is godlike to us mere mortals, but give us a couple millennia to advance... who knows?

 

[ED-209]

But we've seen they can die.

Only in Crapard, hopefully some writer that actually understands the Q will retcon it to say he was playing around.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Only in Crapard, hopefully some writer that actually understands the Q will retcon it to say he was playing around.

We've seen Q die before.

Amanda Rogers' parents, for example. True, they were in human form when they died, but they died nonetheless.

Just like Quinn. And Q's soldiers from "The Q and the Grey".

Why is it so wrong to think that a Q can die? Quinn quite rightly pointed out that they are not omnipotent, no matter how much they may seem so.

 

[ED-209]

Did he? Been a while since I watched it, I just remember the whole point of the episode was he was sick of immortality and wanted to die.

 

[Oddish]

Only in Crapard, hopefully some writer that actually understands the Q will retcon it to say he was playing around.

My theory is that Q can skip around in time, but he does have a limited lifespan for all that. When he faced his end, he could have been anywhere in time from the Big Bang to the Big Chill. But, he wanted to be with the one person he regarded as a friend.

Spoiler

The version that pops up at the end of PIC is simply younger. That's why he says not to be so linear.

 

[Lynx]

The first half of "The Q and the Gray" was actually pretty fun. You could see that Kate Mulgrew and John de Lancie were friends, the way they played off each other.

It's too bad that Quinn couldn't have stayed around awhile... experienced mortality, as well as death. It would have made an interesting plotline.

On the contrary, I wonder why they actually made this episode.

They couldn't possible have Quenn as a crewmember. His knowledge of basically the whole Universe would have ruined everything and made the series utterly uninteresting. OK, they did get Seven later who could fix everything with her Borg knowledge and technology, from the warp core and the engines to janeway's hairdryer or Neelix's stove but she didn't have much knowledge of space beyond the next star system they visited.

The only plausible alternative to a story endin would have been that Quinn at the end had started to think that "being a Q isn't so bad at all" and followed Q back to the Continuum. When I saw that episode for the first time, it was the end I expected.

While going for the other option with Q getting a human lifespan, the writers once again placed themselves in a corner where the only option would be to kill off Quinn. Since The Doctor's reputation couldn't be stained with sloppy order in sickbay and poison easy available for anyone, the only option was that rather weird end we got.

This whole death debate wasn't my kind of episode. What made it at least acceptable and a bit entertaining was of course................................(drum roll) Q!

He's definitely one of my all-time Star Trek favorites, as you can see on the picture below the text.
Always funny to watch and the hearing with Riker, Isaac Newton and Maury Ginsburg from Woodstock was the high spot of the episode.

I was generous in my judgement and gave it a 3 out of 5.

 

[Ragitsu]

But we've seen they can die.

Up until this episode...when?

 

[at Quark's]

Up until this episode...when?

eurm .. in the TNG Episode True Q. the parents of Amanda Rogers. who were Q?

OK, not seen. Heard. In human form, yes, but still Q. It's strongly implied they were executed by the continuum.

Other explanations are (that they didn't really die) are possible, but don't really hold water, in my opinion.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

eurm .. in the TNG Episode True Q. the parents of Amanda Rogers. who were Q?

OK, not seen. Heard. In human form, yes, but still Q. It's strongly implied they were executed by the continuum.

Other explanations are (that they didn't really die) are possible, but don't really hold water, in my opinion.

I mean, it's flat-out said that Rogers' parents were executed. They were in human forms, made of meat, so naturally they were killable.

I think the debate in "Deathwish" was more about "should a Q have the right to end its own existence," which is stated to be unprecedented.

 

[somebuddyX]

It made sense to me. I never found it jarring.