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Dear Experienced Trekkies

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Regarding the notorious first two seasons of TNG, I'm gonna paste below what I said in this thread started by a man who's sharing Star Trek with his wife. She was having trouble getting into the first season of TNG.

Given you've already shared numerous episodes, I won't say skip the season all together, but I do want to remind everybody that if she loses interest because of the early stinkers she'll miss both the later greatness and the early gems. And I say that as one who loves the first couple seasons.

I did a little episode ranking for myself some time back and thought I'd share, if you don't mind a list.

If you're gonna continue the first season, I say see:
103. The Naked Now
106. Where No One Has Gone Before
110. Hide And Q
115. 11001001
120. Heart of Glory
121. The Arsenal of Freedom

125. Conspiracy

If she still wants to see more of season one, consider:
105. The Last Outpost - Unless she has a low Ferengi threshhold, and who could blame her if she does?
112. The Big Goodbye
113. Datalore
114. Angel One

117. When The Bough Breaks
123. Skin of Evil
124. We'll Always Have Paris

Skip...
101./102. Encounter at Farpoint
104. Code of Honor
107. Lonely Among Us
108. Justice
109. The Battle
111. Haven
116. Too Short A Season
118. Home Soil
122. Symbiosis
126. The Neutral Zone
...until she's jonesing for any new Trek.

Similarly, for season two, I say see:
202. Where Silence Has Lease

203. Elementary, Dear Data
208. A Matter Of Honor

209. The Measure Of A Man

211. Contagion
213. Time Squared
216. Q Who
220. The Emissary
221. Peak Performance

Consider:
206. The Schizoid Man

207. Unnatural Selection
210. The Dauphin
214. The Icarus Factor
215. Pen Pals


Skip:
201. The Child
204. The Outrageous Okona

205. Loud As A Whisper
212. The Royale
217. Samaritan Snare
218. Up The Long Ladder
219. Manhunt
222. Shades Of Gray
I disagree with your list. The Last Outpost and Angel One are without any doubt the worst, most embarrassing episodes of season 1, rivaled only by Code of Honor and The Neutral Zone 20th century humans storyline. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone, unless they want to be turned off from TNG for good. There's also absolutely nothing important in those episodes and they are not needed at all for understanding any of the later episodes and shows - "The Last Outpost" did introduce the Ferengi, but they were so ridiculous that the subsequent episodes had to work hard to make some sense of them. If you really want to recommend a Ferengi TNG episode, it's better to choose "The Battle", which is nothing special but isn't horrible like "The Last Outpost", and where the Ferengi aren't such ridiculous caricatures.

Encounter at Farpoint is definitely one of the episodes that should be seen - not because it's great (it's not, although it's not as bad as some other episodes of season 1), but because it introduces Q and has a follow-up in many later episodes and is generally important for that reason.

There's also nothing really necessary to see in "We'll Always Have Paris". If you want to add another episode, it could be Coming of Age since it has at least a follow-up in "Conspiracy".
 
Even I, a die-hard Trekkie since the age of 4 fail to see how watching a TV show could possibly be this complicated.

Aren't there any Star Trek reruns on TV where yoy live, 1ittle? In England almost every Trek is on permanent rerun on various channels. How about just watching a few at random before spending money on DVD's?

Or watching an episode or two on Youtube?
 
Well, not everyone (or Niner) thinks exactly the same way you do. The earlier episodes of Deep Space Nine were just okay in my opinion. And I have known people who have hated Deep Space Nine because they watched the earlier episodes.

I am just offering an alternative or back up plan just in case the first plan fails. That is all. You may disagree with that. But not everyone will feel the same way you do about things.

Heck there are people who have watched the entire series of Deep Space Nine and have still hated it.

Which is beyond me.

:)
It is completely beyond me why or how anyone who is a DS9 fan could hate "Duet", "In the Hands of the Prophets", "Necessary Evil", "Whispers", "The Maquis", "The Wire", "The Jem'Hadar/The Search", "Second Skin", "The House of Quark", "Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast". Those are among the best DS9 episodes and feature top-notch writing, acting, and, in some cases, action. I also can't figure out how or why anyone who thinks that the Dominion war is so awesome could hate "The Jem'Hadar" or "Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast". Simply put: if people hate those episodes, they are never going to be DS9 fans, and telling them to start with "The Adversary" makes no sense.

Incidentally, the current results of my "Best episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" ranking, on 20 votes:

1. In the Pale Moonlight 52.61
2. Duet 43.55
3. Call to Arms 23.50
4. The Visitor 23.16
5. Treachery, Faith and the Great River 19.50
6. The Jem ´Hadar / The Search (parts 1 & 2) 18.50
7. Improbable Cause / The Die Is Cast 17.33
8. Trials & Tribble-ations 17.10
9. Second Skin 16.50
10. In Purgatory´s Shadow / By Inferno´s Light 16.00
11. Far Beyond the Stars 15.27
12. Necessary Evil 14.50
13. Favor the Bold / Sacrifice of Angels 14.50
14. You Are Cordially Invited... 14.50
15. Explorers 11.00
16. Tacking into the Wind 11.00
17. Visionary 10.50
18. Ties of Blood and Water 10.50
19. Little Green Men 9.50
20. Facets 9.28 21. Change of Heart 6.85
22. Rapture 6.66
23. ...Nor the Battle to the Strong 6.50
24. Children of Time 6.00
25. The Siege of AR-558 5.50
26. Chimera 5.50
27. Civil Defense 5.00
28. Things Past 5.00
29. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges 5.00
30. Doctor Bashir, I Presume? 4.50
31. Behind the Lines 4.50
32. Afterimage 4.42
33. For the Uniform 4.22
34. Past Tense (parts 1 & 2) 4.00
35. Statistical Probabilities 4.00
36. Inquisition 3.83
37. Rejoined 3.57
38. Return to Grace 3.50
39. The Ascent 3.50
40. Emissary 3.16
41. Hippocratic Oath 3.00
42. Hard Time 3.00
43. Rocks and Shoals 3.00
44. In the Cards 2.77
45. Our Man Bashir 2.50
46. Homefront / Paradise Lost 2.50
47. The Ship 2.50
48. The Changing Face of Evil 2.50
49. The Way of the Warrior 2.14
50. Whispers 2.00
51. The Wire 2.00
52. Indiscretion 2.00
53. Broken Link 2.00
54. Crossover 1.50
55.
The House of Quark 1.50
56. Tears of the Prophets 1.50
57. The Maquis (parts 1 & 2) 1.00
58. The Quickening 1.00
59. Image in the Sand / Shadows and Symbols 1.00
60. What You Leave Behind 1.00
61. Captive Pursuit 0.50
62. Waltz 0.50
 
Niner fight! :lol:

I sure hope 1ittle appreciates all the thought we're putting into this in two years or whenever she finally gets around to watching the show. LoL!

I look forward to continuing this argument in that other thread. Oh and... Death to the opposition! ;)
 
DE:

I am not suggesting that there isn't episodes that are good in the first three seasons. In fact, I really enjoyed the "Improbable Cause / Die is Cast" two parter, "Civil Defense", "Whispers", "Explorers", "Crossover", and "Thru The Looking Glass". But I am just not wild about all the first 3 season's episodes on your list, though. They are okay or descent in my opinion. But they are not definitive of Deep Space Nine's best episodes to me. They might be to you or to someone else. But not in my book.

And I am not suggesting (now) that they shouldn't watch those episodes either.

This is the way I would suggest in watching Deep Space Nine...

Plan A:

Try to watch it chronologically from the very beginning (start to finish). If this doesn't work go to...

Plan B:

Try to watch the best of the first three seasons from a list compiled in this thread. If this doesn't work go to...

Plan C

Try to watch Deep Space Nine Season 3 Disc 7 episode "Adversary" on afterwards (Seasons 4-7). Stick with it for at least season 4 and 5 before giving up on it. If this doesn't work then chances are you are not a Niner.
 
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Even I, a die-hard Trekkie since the age of 4 fail to see how watching a TV show could possibly be this complicated.

Aren't there any Star Trek reruns on TV where yoy live, 1ittle? In England almost every Trek is on permanent rerun on various channels. How about just watching a few at random before spending money on DVD's?

Or watching an episode or two on Youtube?


The only one I ever see on TV (I live in Philadelphia) is TNG. Even if they all were on TV, I just don't like to half-ass things. It's just part of my mentality, unfortunately hahah
 
Niner fight! :lol:

I sure hope 1ittle appreciates all the thought we're putting into this in two years or whenever she finally gets around to watching the show. LoL!

I look forward to continuing this argument in that other thread. Oh and... Death to the opposition! ;)

totalllly :) I'm SO gonna revisit all of this after I watch DS9.
 
The only one I ever see on TV (I live in Philadelphia) is TNG. Even if they all were on TV, I just don't like to half-ass things. It's just part of my mentality, unfortunately hahah

1ittle:

If perfection is your goal then I would watch it like this then...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=4153092&postcount=40

The only downside is that you would have to rent buy Season 3 of the Original Series in order to watch the Unaired Pilot Episode titled "The Cage" (Not the extended black and white mixed with color episode on the disc, but the remastered one) to begin with.

Also, you would have to rent or buy various different series and movies simultaneously in order to view it this way, too (TNG - DS9) (DS9 - VOY) (DS9, VOY - Movies).

Well, whatever you choose. Best of luck in your Star Trek viewing!

:techman:


Side Note:

Oh, and not to overwhelm you even more, but if you do decide to go with the chronological list I provided: you could skip past the Enterprise Mirror Universe episodes after watching the Original Series episode titled "Tholian Web" seeing it is your first viewing. However, watching it to begin with wouldn't hurt all that much either. Watching the Enterprise Mirror Universe two parter (In A Mirror Darkly) before watching the series Star Trek: Enterprise would simply...

(a) Introduce the Enterprise characters to you in a darker way (before knowing their original nicer counter-parts).

(b) Explain what had happened to the starship Defiant in TOS's "Tholian Web".

(c) Show you the scope and power behind the 1960s Original Series star-ships.
 
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Since you're already committed to watching over 700 episodes of Star Trek, I would recommend watching Star Trek V: The Final Frontier in its proper place in the movie series. It is the worst of the movies, but it is much better than some of the clunker episodes of the various series. If you wait until the end, you will end your viewing on a sour note. Given the nature of the Enterprise finale, though, you may want to watch Star Trek (2009) again to cap things off anyway.
 
1ittle:

If perfection is your goal then I would watch it like this then...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=4153092&postcount=40

The only downside is that you would have to rent buy Season 3 of the Original Series in order to watch the Unaired Pilot Episode titled "The Cage" (Not the extended black and white mixed with color episode on the disc, but the remastered one) to begin with.

Also, you would have to rent or buy various different series and movies simultaneously in order to view it this way, too (TNG - DS9) (DS9 - VOY) (DS9, VOY - Movies).

Well, whatever you choose. Best of luck in your Star Trek viewing!

:techman:


Side Note:

Oh, and not to overwhelm you even more, but if you do decide to go with the chronological list I provided: you could skip past the Enterprise Mirror Universe episodes after watching the Original Series episode titled "Tholian Web" seeing it is your first viewing. However, watching it to begin with wouldn't hurt all that much either. Watching the Enterprise Mirror Universe two parter (In A Mirror Darkly) before watching the series Star Trek: Enterprise would simply...

(a) Introduce the Enterprise characters to you in a darker way (before knowing their original nicer counter-parts).

(b) Explain what had happened to the starship Defiant in TOS's "Tholian Web".

(c) Show you the scope and power behind the 1960s Original Series star-ships.

Thanks! : ) I don't mind buying a few seasons if need be. when I decided to get further into the franchise I assumed that it might be a bit pricey =/ thanks so much for all of your help! that list will definitely come in handy :)

Since you're already committed to watching over 700 episodes of Star Trek, I would recommend watching Star Trek V: The Final Frontier in its proper place in the movie series. It is the worst of the movies, but it is much better than some of the clunker episodes of the various series. If you wait until the end, you will end your viewing on a sour note. Given the nature of the Enterprise finale, though, you may want to watch Star Trek (2009) again to cap things off anyway.

I never considered that it would end my experience on a bad note. You're definitely right about that. I'm probably gonna take TheGoodBen's advice and take a few shots first though hahaha
 
Thanks! I don't mind buying a few seasons if need be. when I decided to get further into the franchise I assumed that it might be a bit pricey =/ thanks so much for all of your help! that list will definitely come in handy

1ittle:

Well, you can always rent them thru Netflix if you don't want to fork over the brief case of cash.

Oh, and you are more than welcome. I am glad the list will be useful for you (at some point).

Anyways, keep on Trekking!
Cause fellow Trekkies here will definitely want to know your progress report on the series as soon as you are able to report it. You know. Viewing the series from a fresh pair of eyes or something like that.
 
I disagree with your list.
Well, it is a subjective list after all.

...I didn't agree with the list the day after I left it. But I figured some advice is better than none, given the many hours of mediocre TV he may be in for.

Don't misunderstand, TNG's my favorite series and I love those naive early seasons. I'd take the worst episode of the worst season over all of ENT, GEN, INS, and NEM combined...throw in half of DS9 and most of VOY as well while we're at it. But more because I love what they represent rather than they are.
Encounter at Farpoint is definitely one of the episodes that should be seen - not because it's great (it's not, although it's not as bad as some other episodes of season 1), but because it introduces Q and has a follow-up in many later episodes and is generally important for that reason.
I may agree with you here because a) it's near pivotal to enjoying the series finale, and) the first episode I suggested he try ("The Naked Now") is about the characters NOT behaving like themselves. It'd be nice to see them be themselves for an episode at least...though it's not necessary.

'Thing is though...it's so painfully bad, IMO.

There's also nothing really necessary to see in "We'll Always Have Paris".
It's not "necessary" to watch the series at all.

Plus, I've always liked the pining French girl at Cafe Des Artistes, and the creepy three-Datas time distortion toward the end.

1ittle, so what order are you going to see Trek in? I disagree with watching it in order of in-universe chronology, and suggest you try order of original air date.
 
I got that.

There are many episodes you don't need to see if all that matters is references to them in later episodes.

More importantly, it's a subjective list. I like things you don't. I mentioned a couple things I liked about that episode in the next sentence.

I noticed this the last time we spoke - you're not happy till you have the last word, make the last point. I said nothing last time but come on.
 
Btw, 1ittle, it might be an idea to watch two of the least connected series' at the same time, alternating between episodes to keep things fresh. Otherwise you'll want to kill yourself after seeing three or four rubbish episodes of the same show in a row (this will happen, unfortunately).
TOS and TNG, or ENT and TNG, TOS and DS9 or VOY, that sort of thing. Just don't do ENT and VOY, since for the first two seasons of ENT it were pretty much more Voyager episodes with different faces, or TNG and VOY, which were very similar too (yet TNG and ENT are somehow different to watch at once enough despite being too similar to some of the others).
 
I was thinking about my Deep Space Nine recommendation for a new person again.

I would show a new person...

1. Adversary
2. Way of the Warrior Part l and ll

If they liked it, then I would show them...

1. Best of Both Worlds Part l and ll (Set up for DS9 pilot)
2. Emissary Part l and ll (Set up of the series)
3. Crossover (Set up for the DS9 Mirror Universe)
4. Civil Defense (Origin of the Station)
5. Heart of Stone (Odo shows his feelings for Kira) (Nog joins Starfleet)
6. Through the Looking Glass (DS9 Mirror Universe continued)
7. Improbable Cause (Pre-Dominion War heats up)
8. The Die is Cast (Pre-Dominion War heats up)
9. Explorers (Shows relationship between Sisko and his son)
(It also shows Sisko's passion for Bajoran culture, too).

Maybe I would add other episodes. But right now, this is what I came up with that I like. Other episodes might be deemed important and or necessary, but those other episodes are probably either boring, horribly acted, or not all that important in my opinion.
 
1ittle:

Well, you can always rent them thru Netflix if you don't want to fork over the brief case of cash.

Oh, and you are more than welcome. I am glad the list will be useful for you (at some point).

Anyways, keep on Trekking!
Cause fellow Trekkies here will definitely want to know your progress report on the series as soon as you are able to report it. You know. Viewing the series from a fresh pair of eyes or something like that.

awesome! I just received season one of TOS in the mail a couple hours ago so I warned all my friends and facebook friends that it may be a while before they hear from me hahahaha. I'm so excited!


Btw, 1ittle, it might be an idea to watch two of the least connected series' at the same time, alternating between episodes to keep things fresh. Otherwise you'll want to kill yourself after seeing three or four rubbish episodes of the same show in a row (this will happen, unfortunately).
TOS and TNG, or ENT and TNG, TOS and DS9 or VOY, that sort of thing. Just don't do ENT and VOY, since for the first two seasons of ENT it were pretty much more Voyager episodes with different faces, or TNG and VOY, which were very similar too (yet TNG and ENT are somehow different to watch at once enough despite being too similar to some of the others).

Thats an awesome idea! Once I get to TNG I'll consider trying it. I'm afraid if I try to do that now I'll just confuse myself though hahaha.
 
ok so just an update:

I'm on episode five or six right now. it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. the pilot was probably my least favorite but I definitely liked "The Naked Time" the best so far. I don't know if it's the fact that it's remastered or not but it's pretty good quality. I'm glad I bought it : )
 
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