DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Myasishchev]

Kitson would be great. Waid is as hit or miss as Johns.

I dunno. I can't think of a miss, for me, except for Kingdom Come, for which I blame Alex Ross*; I can think of commercial failures, for which I blame Legion fans generally, as they are scum who hate everything, especially the Legion.** I didn't read Captain America; that was supposed to be okay though, right?

*Can anyone explain to me what Billy Batson's decision was? Or how killing most (but not all!) of the superhumans (and himself) was the choice only he could make? The hell? Ok, maybe KC was Waid's fault.
**Kidding. Mostly.

Edit: to elaborate, and this is purely personal opinion, Waid's never ruined anything for me (purely personally) when he's retconned/reimagined/reoriented properties, whereas Johns has done this at least three times. But, even though it came out that way, I didn't mean to suggest Waid as an alternative based on negative characteristics about Johns. I just think dude has always had a real handle on DC's characters, and I still think the Threeboot is probably the best reboot of any franchise I've ever seen.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I liked his first Cap run, but the follow up was weak. His JLA run wasn't great.

 

[Myasishchev]

I liked the JLA run okay. It's the one where Plastic Man sexually assaults Big Barda. Or maybe that was just a fill-in issue. Anyway, I still can't tell whether it's funny or horrifying. But that's Mark Waid: he makes you think!

Tower of Babel was pretty cool. And the Synchronicity two-part fill-in Waid did during Morrison's run is actually one of my favorite JLA stories of all.

 

[shivkala]

Waid has done some pretty awesome stuff. And then he did his second run on Flash...

As I said earlier in the thread, the Waid and Kitson Legion of Super-Heroes was really, really good (though the middle of their two major arcs was just good). I get that people are happy having Levitz back and all, but he's not my cup of tea. Not only did Waid and Kitson tell an amazing story, but they really took a unique view of the Legion. I forget who did the art during Bedard's issues (man were those boring!), but I was pleased to see Manpaul take over the art chores. His style on the book wasn't great, but it was miles above Kitson's replacement.

I still want to know what happened to Cosmic Boy, though. That looked like it would have been an amazing story.

Kitson's website lists Amazing Spider-Man as his current job.

I actually wouldn't have minded seeing a Waid-Johns-Rucka-Morrison take on the New 52, with help from Giffen. It worked really well for 52.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Waids Legion was interesting in small doses, but I think Johns version that he did in Action Comics and Adventure was certainly the best of the multiple versions we have seen. The Levitz take certainly was a travesty, but what Waid did ultimately left me cold though it was amusing.

 

[Myasishchev]

Waid has done some pretty awesome stuff. And then he did his second run on Flash...

As I said earlier in the thread, the Waid and Kitson Legion of Super-Heroes was really, really good (though the middle of their two major arcs was just good). I get that people are happy having Levitz back and all, but he's not my cup of tea. Not only did Waid and Kitson tell an amazing story, but they really took a unique view of the Legion. I forget who did the art during Bedard's issues (man were those boring!), but I was pleased to see Manpaul take over the art chores. His style on the book wasn't great, but it was miles above Kitson's replacement.

I still want to know what happened to Cosmic Boy, though. That looked like it would have been an amazing story.

Kitson's website lists Amazing Spider-Man as his current job.

I actually wouldn't have minded seeing a Waid-Johns-Rucka-Morrison take on the New 52, with help from Giffen. It worked really well for 52.

And bring back Tom Peyer! And Hourman!

As I understand Shooter's rambling-ass plot summary on his blog, the plan for Cos was that he was gonna come back with the Knights Tempus to stop the Legion from stopping Evil Projectra, because Evil Projectra winning was important for the chain of events which lead to the 41st century's status quo.

Dunno if I actually like it, maybe it would've been good in execution, though. Like I said, I think the Shooter run is underrated (and, at least, not adequately handicapped for the fact it was thrown under a bus). It wasn't exactly great. The Infinity Net was a good idea middlingly executed (giving rise to some exceedingly goofy visuals, including the Net's scanner-ripper "soul gun" thing).

You know what I just realized? The Threeboot Legion only ever fought one (1) supervillain--Praetor Lemnos--in fifty issues. Everything else was a faceless threat (Dominators, the Infinity Net's destroyers) or each other.

But that tied into what I liked best about it, I suppose--the Legion was a giant organization too, pitted against rival giant organizations.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I like the way the new continuity and revamped characters are being established in Superman - it's all a vast improvement over the oldDC. I still can't stand Perez's writing style, and the big mysterious "alien threat" is pretty prosaic.

 

[the G-man]

Kitson would be great. Waid is as hit or miss as Johns.

Yep.

 

[Myasishchev]

Major flaw in the Threeboot, however, in three parts: although Mekt Ranzz is super cool, he does not have 1)white hair, 2)his festive classic costume, or 3)the John Waters moustache.

This is marginally counterbalanced, however, by the fact that Cham fucks a bird. Outstanding!

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm not sure how "Superman" is a vast improvement over what they were doing before since we really don't know DC's plans were going to be after JMS's Grounded story line or after Paul Cornell's arc in Action Comics. I'm not sure how one could make this argument especially if they weren't reading before the 52 Verse. No offense Dennis but I don't really see much difference so far...that being said I am loving the hell out of Acton Comics. Superman is being bogged down by Perez's bad writing. Hopefully when Jurgens takes over with Griffen they can turn things around.


Waid's "Threeboot" is what made me a fan of the Legion while Johns essentially bringing back the Silver Age version is what cemented me a Legion fan. Levitz is just continuing that but being really erratic and incomprehensible at times.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm not sure how "Superman" is a vast improvement over what they were doing before since we really don't know DC's plans were going to be after JMS's Grounded story line or after Paul Cornell's arc in Action Comics.

I don't have to judge based on what they mighta/shoulda/coulda done someday but on what I saw them actually doing.

Supes with a little edge and attitude works, and it's shocking how simple it seems to be even for Perez to introduce some believable human friction into Clark's relationships with other human beings.

Dumping "Lois and Clark" works. Again, amazingly easy to do too.

The new versions of Jimmy Olsen, Perry White etc. work.

The new costume? Totally works.

Injecting some energy, conflict and chaos into the working environment at the Planet works.

Metropolis as this kind of hybrid gritty/fantasy "city of tomorrow" works. Airships?

Yes, I know they've tried several of those things before, piecemeal.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I have a question about Red Hood and the Outlaws #3...

Spoiler: Jason's most cherished memory.

Why did Jason Todd not want his most cherished memory back?

 

[Hound of UIster]

He hates Bruce for not killing the Joker.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Dennis don't get me wrong i love a lot of the changes that have been made for Superman, I guess just for me personally I don't see much difference story telling wise between now and say what we were getting a few months ago. For me I miss elements of the previous continuity while still enjoying the heck out of a lot of the changes. I think one of my favourite changes you mentioned is the friendship between Clark and Jimmy. There was always that component between them before but it was never a really close friendship or bond. I like that Morrison has created that new dynamic.

 

[Derishton]

I have a question about Red Hood and the Outlaws #3...

Spoiler: Jason's most cherished memory.

Why did Jason Todd not want his most cherished memory back?

I'd push this a little bit further than Hound of UIster does: he resents Batman's failure to kill the Joker, but simultaneously knows that Bruce was the best thing to happen to him. He needs that memory gone to continue his path to bad-assery, as he understands it.

 

[the G-man]

Dennis don't get me wrong i love a lot of the changes that have been made for Superman, I guess just for me personally I don't see much difference story telling wise between now and say what we were getting a few months ago. For me I miss elements of the previous continuity while still enjoying the heck out of a lot of the changes. I think one of my favourite changes you mentioned is the friendship between Clark and Jimmy. There was always that component between them before but it was never a really close friendship or bond. I like that Morrison has created that new dynamic.

I like Perez's Superman. And I think losing the Lois/Clark marriage improves things. But I can't call it revolutionary or even evolutionary. So far, the story could have come right out of a John Byrne issue about 25 years ago. It's basically just Superman in a slightly different costume.

 

[Trekker4747]

But... but... He wears JEANS! And has a bit of a surly and cocky attitude.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ He's getting the costume we've seen in "Superman" soon the jeans and t-shirt are obvious a proto suit in Action Comics or as Morrison has called his costume before his "Action" suit. The attitude in Action are staples of the Golden Age Superman which this version has been inspired from.

Tony Daniel Detective Comics interview for those interested.


http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35645

 

[Trekker4747]

Yes, I realize all of that. Just echoing some of the concerns/complaints some had over some of the early stuff we saw of a more cynical Superman running around in jeans.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Whose "we"?