DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Turtletrekker]

We've yet to establish that Batman and Superman will actually fight in Justice League #2 yet.

Looks like it to me...

 

[Admiral_Young]

The key word being looks...but they can be deceiving. Not saying they aren't going to clobber each other but I wouldn't be surprised if it was some kind of swerve.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

He's not warm and cuddly the way he used to be.

Good. To Hell with that.

The truth is, for all that people fuss about reboots the only time that Supes has been interesting is in the early years of a reboot. When they change the status quo even a little bit, it requires the character to react in novel ways.

The problem is, they rarely add anything to Superman's actual character. Byrne did, thank god, by thinking through and making clear who Clark Kent was and how that motivated Superman. The next guy to try it settled for bullshit about him "seeing auras" and therefore being a vegetarian - basically, substituting tacking on idiosyncrasies for developing personality traits. So after everybody gets used to how the reboot has rearranged the furniture, it's back to...meh.

What would be nice would be for them to actually let him be a character with real human likes and dislikes, who faces frustrations and who has to make the occasional Hobson's choice. Someone who's surrounded by people who all have their own points-of-view, motivations and goals and therefore have impacts on his behavior that he can't just sweep aside by being awesome (you know, like working for a huge corporation that's pushing his values as a journalist to one side and finding himself losing his temper at this chick he digs who's more interested in climbing the corporate ladder than agreeing with him). Dealing with all of that, he might finally grow into being an individual himself.

You know, like all those characters over at that little upstart comic company that seems to be getting some attention - Marvels, or something?

SUPERMAN #1- Yeah, its a bit old fashion but I liked it. I hope we don't see Clarks news articles used as a narrative device again though. For the most part it was a pilot: we get the skinny on who's who and what's what in Superman's modern world.

Yeah, pretty much my take on it. It ought to be an in-universe joke at some point, though, that the name of the new TV network is a redundancy - Planet Global News (PGN). Guess they didn't want to just go with PNN?

 

[Admiral_Young]

I don't really think Superman has been cuddly and warm, that just sounds like a disgruntled fan's complaint about a perceived change in direction for the character. Also one has to understand that the Superman in "Action Comics" is young and naive and still learning and prone to making mistakes. In fact I think Morrison in one of his early interviews for "Action Comics" said that Clark kind of rushes in deals with the crisis and doesn't really think about the consequences afterwards yet. He's immature in that regards and not developed in his crime fighting ability.

 

[Trekker4747]

So far we've seen him terrorizing small businessmen in Action #1...

AC1 Superman is very early in his career and not even aware of his Kryptonian heritage yet, nor gone through "training" with Jor-El. What we see Superman do there is akin to Peter Parker letting the robber -who'll eventually kill his uncle- go into the elevator unscathed to get back at the fight guy stiffing him on his take on the winnings.

He's yet to learn to "do things right."

I liked the way Superman was shown in his self-titled issue. Action Comics remains to be seen as the character grows and the first arc ends how he'll be portrayed. (I can only assume it'd be similar to the Superman version.)

I agree with the poster above the "Dark Knight" comic did little for me, I didn't like the overdone splash-page artwork in it. Particularly the huge Batman towering over the SWAT in from of Arkham and a very huge, overly beefy, Dent inside of Arkham.

I mean, what the hell, comic?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Again glenmorgan wasn't simply a small businessmen...he was corrupt and as we found out in "Superman" Morgan Edge was his successor. I think it was also implied in Action that Luthor was behind him. Or at least I wouldn't be shocked if that is what is revealed.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

FWIW, what Clark does to GlenMorgan in Action #1 is a replay of what he did to a character named Greer in the original Action #1 - Greer was bribing a U.S. senator to get us involved in a European war(!) and Supes interrogated him by leaping high into the air and threatening to drop him or to touch a high-tension wire and electrocute him.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yep. Morrison loves him some Golden Age Supes. A far more aggressive and welcomed approach to crime fighting.

An interesting article about the sales of the New 52...

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/new-52-sold-out-but-is-it-selling-110929.html

 

[Broccoli]

*sigh* I miss the old Superman. I really don't like him as a dick.

He has always been a dick!

He's not warm and cuddly the way he used to be. He's more hard edged now. So far we've seen him terrorizing small businessmen in Action #1...

He terrorized a businessman in Action Comics (Vol. 1) #1. He also terrorized some businessman dude in the Byrne/Wolfman reboot constantly. Damn...what was his name? Lenny Luxor? This is nothing new.

attacking Batman without provocation in Justice League #1...

Just like when they first met in Man of Steel #3?

and he did something all meanie in Superman #1 I forget what it was...

Well, I bet the fire monster was pissed that Superman fought and beat him...

Interesting side-by-side on art and dialogue changes in the last couple of pages of Superman.

I like the coloring better in the newer ones.

Brian Buccellato (colorist on The Flash) for the win.

 

[JoeZhang]

I like it. It and the glasses suit this version of the character; he's really an unmade bed, isn't he?

The editors apparently liked the Morales take on the character.

I hope we never see him in a properly knotted tie or a well-fitting jacket again.

They can simply make Kent the Planet's official Harry Potter Look-alike and forbid him to wear a suit:

CB: That was on Tuesday, September 11. It was the afternoon, less than three hours after [the attacks]. I went into her office and Andy [Coulson, the deputy editor] was on the sofa and Rebekah was on the phone. Andy asked me where was my Harry Potter suit and I made some excuse, saying: it's not here, it's in the photo studio. [Actually], it was in the office, but it was hardly appropriate for a journalist to be prancing about as Harry Potter. Andy told me I should always have my Harry Potter gear around, in case of a Harry Potter emergency, and told me that the morning after, I was to dress up for conference as Harry Potter. So, at that time, [when] we were working on the assumption that up to 50,000 people had been killed, I was required to parade myself around morning conference, dressed as Harry Potter.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Another(?) Morrison interview.

Well Rags Morales is still drawing it but he needed to get help on the second one from I think it was Brent Anderson and he'll probably need help on the third one and honestly it's because DC decided that they want the comics to come out monthly because people were complaining that the comics were taking too long. And it's a really hard one to negotiate because the reason comics take too long is because they cost more, so the artists put more time into making the work worthwhile and also because they're collected, the artists want to make sure that the work is good enough to withstand the test of time, which takes longer.

And it's totally at odds with the old production values of comics which is you put them out in a month, but back then they cost ten cents, fifteen cents and guys would do them overnight quite crudely, a lot of energy but they were done crudely, like punk rock singles. Now people are judging you against the best of everything you know, you can just go and download Watchmen, you can get The Dark Knight, and if it's not as good as these things, or at least aspiring to be as good as these things then you're kind of up against it.

So it was a weird problem because things were getting late, like my Batman Incorporated has been super late because, partly because of me but also because the artist just couldn't keep up and do their best work and suddenly came this dictat that now everything had to be monthly and they want to keep to that so it's just the case that if your artist can't meet that then somebody else will finish up the pages. So it's kinda, for me it hits the long term collections of it to have things done like that but at the same time it brings back a lot of the freshness and improvisation of doing comics again and just responding to that and also sometimes you know they'll be like we need a two part filler here – okay I'll just come up with something, and it might not necessarily fit it in to the middle of this but okay, you need a filler.

And it's gonna change the way things are done, it's a kind of different production ethic and you know the fans I'm sure who complained when the comics weren't coming out monthly will probably now still complain that they're coming out with two artists rather than one but there's just no way of getting around that, you get monthly comics and you get faster artwork or you get artwork done by two people or you get an artist taking his time on it and that's just the way it is. So from now on they're at least doing the experiment to see if they can bring these things out monthly whatever it takes.

He states that pretty clearly and matter-of-factly without copping an attitude one direction or the other.

 

[JoeZhang]

And then he said "oh yeah, and fuck Mark Millar".

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm reading this and I really want to quote the whole interview because he says so many observant and kind of out-of-school things. I must confess that having only picked up a few titles and done so really occasionally over the last ten years I don't know all the history and personalities of these writers, certainly don't know the majority of their work but everything I've seen of Morrison's I like. And I really like him as a personality and the way he thinks and the things he thinks about.

Concerning the direct market:

Yeah it stopped being mainstream. Even when I started picking them up it was because you'd get off the bus from school and there'd be a little kiosk and they had comics. And every month they'd have different ones, and they didn't always connect but it didn't matter, it was just the excitement of getting new ones every month. If they'd only been in comics shops I don't know if I'd have been as interested. I'd maybe have gone there later when I became a bit more of a fanboy but getting into comics is because you just find them, or because your parents pick them up or you get them on a train going on your holidays, and that kind of way of reaching them has gone. So yeah, the direct market was disastrous for comic sales but it was good for the research and development, you know it allowed comics to retreat from the mainstream and do stuff that actually wasn't mainstream, it was quite advanced and poetic and philosophical and we kind of needed that as well. It's left us creatively better but not necessarily financially better, and not as widespread as art form as it should be.

 

[Broccoli]

::waiting until silver age fanboys comes in here to dispute Morrison's claims even though said fanboys never worked in the industry::

Seriously though, I get what Morrison is saying and it makes sense (in regards to the lateness). Can still be frustrating though (the long waits). I wonder of DC went to publishing the issues every month and a half could improve things?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, Morrison's also suggesting that it's probably good for the industry to shift back toward the commercial from the artistic for a while - using two or more artists on a comic, sometimes in a single issue, may frustrate some fans but on the other hand making an effort to push comics back toward being a mass market phenomenon by keeping them on schedule and pushing harder into the digital medium is probably good on balance.

I think some people who are really invested emotionally are afraid that if comics - or anything else - go off in a new direction they'll be nothing but what they're becoming right now forever, and really nothing is like that. The only thing that never changes is something that's dead, and dead is what everyone wants to avoid.

 

[Icemizer]

I applaud DC and the decision to have the books put out on time. There is no reason that they should not be out on time. Oh the artists are working harder today is such nonsense Morrison who are trying to lie to? The books have less pages and the pages are smaller. The production is much faster as pages can be submitted electronically through out the process. Siting the cost as another reason is also daft. The cost has nothing to do with how long it takes to produce a comic book, the two points are not even remotely connected.
One of the biggest problems was that you lateness become an acceptable practice in the first place. It became no big deal if you didnt finish your work on time, the book would just be pushed back a month...or two... or three...say where is Pitt #10 anyway?
I can think of no other industry where not getting your work done on time becomes acceptable. You know going in you have a month to get your work done. If you cant cut it, theres the door and there are dozens of guys and gals waiting on the other side for a chance.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Oh the artists are working harder today is such nonsense Morrison who are trying to lie to?

No one. Comparing the art in these comics to that of the comics I grew up with - sorry, Jack Kirby - or even a quarter century ago I'm just astonished at a lot of it. Reading a current comic like Supergirl #1 or Justice League #1 which somewhat younger or more sophisticated readers here have evaluated as short on story or artistically unimpressive is a qualitatively different experience for me than reading one in the 1970s - the newer are generally better all around. The detail and dimensionality of the imagery in a comic like Superman #1 - and I pick that example because I thought the art was the most crowded and old-fashioned of any I've read in the re-launch - is really amazing compared to old comics.

 

[TemporalFlux]

But then you have someone like Mark Bagley who is perfectly capable of producing great art on a monthly schedule. I don't think the guy is some kind of freak who can do things no one else can do; I think he's just one of the few, honest professionals left in comics. Most of the rest are varying degrees of Joe Madureira (who openly admitted he was too busy goofing off and playing video games to draw Battle Chasers).

 

[Mr Light]

Guys, I was being facetious about my Superman thing earlier

Holdasec!!! DC wants their comic books to come out monthly now?!!?! Those monsters!!! This flies in the face of everything we know and love about comic books!!!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But then you have someone like Mark Bagley who is perfectly capable of producing great art on a monthly schedule. I don't think the guy is some kind of freak who can do things no one else can do...

You're right, and this may create more opportunities for more artists who aren't currently doing this work as well.

I know nothing about how this stuff is priced, but I'd guess that in some instances DC is going to have to renegotiate what they pay some people in order to get what they want. That's another part of a changed business model: you make new demands, you learn that some people can deliver more reliably and with better quality under the new circumstances, you offer those people more because you need that reliability whereas before you didn't so much.