DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I read Justice League. Barely any story here. If they're going to write for the trade then I don't want to hear any kvetching from fans if I wait for the trade.

That aside the GL/Batman interaction was fun, it felt fresh... Which brings up the obvious question.... Why jump 5 years into the superhero era at all? Start the entire line at this time period. Make it a complete reboot and lets get a fresh take on all these heroes' first stories.

 

[Mr Light]

I was pretty damn shocked when the issue ended just when Superman appeared. That was a full issue?!

My one big pleasant surprise was that the bad guy will be Darkseid, though. My fav.

As for Flashpoint #5, wow, that was anticlimactic. They spend like 60 issues of worthless tie-ins building up this huge Aquaman / Wonder Woman confrontation.... and in the final issue it happens off-screen and doesn't even get finished!!! All those characters set up for the final battle... and they just make one panel cameos doing nothing. What was the point of it all? If the story in the end was only about Flash and Reverse-Flash, why did we get 60 issues of tie-ins about everything BUT that?

Like Final Crisis, this feels like something that should only have been a single arc in a single book and not in a million other books. And like Final Crisis, in the end I didn't like it

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm guessing that the overall point of Flashpoint was to serve as one giant plot device to create the new continuity. If this was in the works since October (or whenever one wishes to believe) then it makes perfect sense. I'm personally wondering what the original plan was post-Flashpoint before they came up with the relaunch idea.

 

[Myasishchev]

Like Final Crisis, this feels like something that should only have been a single arc in a single book and not in a million other books. And like Final Crisis, in the end I didn't like it

I dunno, Final Crisis at least felt very big, even if it was a total clusterfuck (Mandrakk? who the hell is Mandrakk?).

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Evil vampire like demon monster...thing. IIRC he was a corrupted monitor.

 

[C_Miller]

I'm guessing that the overall point of Flashpoint was to serve as one giant plot device to create the new continuity. If this was in the works since October (or whenever one wishes to believe) then it makes perfect sense. I'm personally wondering what the original plan was post-Flashpoint before they came up with the relaunch idea.

Or to keep readers once the announcement for the new 52 was made... There was an inevitable drop off by continuity obsessed fans who weren't going to read books that didn't matter. So they created a self-contained event with a million tie-in minis with a promise that it would be relavent. But that's rather jaded of me.

 

[JoeZhang]

There is nothing really in flashpoint that connects the two - the coda at the end could have existed all the time with the costumes simply redrawn and the two page spread drawn or redrawn for that purpose.

I get the feeling that Flashpoint was written or decided and then the revamp came along.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ That's my impression. Geoff Johns had been talking about Flashpoint for a good year or so before it actually happened. We know that it had been hinted and teased since he started on his run. I just get the feeling they came up with the idea for the relaunch relatively recently and implemented the changes into the book to reflect it.

 

[TemporalFlux]

Also the Legion of Superheroes books are not the only books from the previous books, the Bat-Family books also are intact, as is Batman, Inc when it returns. Also the present time Green Lantern books have characters and elements that have carried over.

Not exactly what I meant. The Batman and Green Lantern books have generally kept a version of their history, but they're still now in the new DC relaunch continuity. The new continuity has been merged into the Batman and Green Lantern books. Batman and Green Lantern will not notice that anything has changed.

From what I understand, the Legion of Super-Heroes book is still literally in the old continuity; they're not going to recognize the new past history. They will realize everything has changed.

Back onto the Time Trapper angle, one other thing has occurred to me. Who is one of the characters most changed in this relaunch? Superman. Time Trapper has been targeting Superman for awhile now because Superman is the inspiration for the Legion of Super-Heroes. If Superman was not as legendary, then the Legion may never be born.

The new relaunch Superman has had his support structure stripped from him. Both of his parents are dead. His marriage is gone. His ties to humanity are weakened. And with the time stream "closed" as Didio has put, Superman may have never had the Legion in his life.

Trapper has never had the ability to make drastic changes to past time (and in this case, the Trapper only took advantage of the can of worms Barry opened), but these nudges could be designed with the hope of Superman not finding his way to being such a grand hero and inspiration; thus the Legion would never form in the new continuity, and the Trapper would finally be free of its greatest adversary.

 

[JoeZhang]

I thought that Didio said that one of the reasons for this was to make Superman the top-tier superhero he is suppose to be - but then Didio said the same thing about Infinite crisis and Final Crisis...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I just get the feeling they came up with the idea for the relaunch relatively recently and implemented the changes into the book to reflect it.

At a retreat about two years ago, apparently.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Or last October as established in the relaunch thread. DiDio at the SDCC stated "October". He didn't state exactly when Oct.

 

[JoeZhang]

I just get the feeling they came up with the idea for the relaunch relatively recently and implemented the changes into the book to reflect it.

At a retreat about two years ago, apparently.

Interesting to know whom was at that retreat - Morrison says he found out in March of this year and other creators such as Ken Lashley seem to have started much later.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Apparently there were 24 writers who attended the retreat and who knew about the idea initially.

 

[JoeZhang]

Apparently there were 24 writers who attended the retreat and who knew about the idea initially.

Well it's a bit of a puzzle who those 24 writers are - most of the writers who have just had titles dropped say that knew nothing about it, and the story amongst those coming in is pretty consistent that they found out what was going on when offered titles - and then there are those who thought they were writing a title only to find out at the last minute they weren't.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

There is nothing really in flashpoint that connects the two - the coda at the end could have existed all the time with the costumes simply redrawn and the two page spread drawn or redrawn for that purpose.

Exactly my feeling. If you aren't paying attention to the different costumes in those final five pages or so, you wouldn't realize that they were different at all, and I prefer to think that they take place in the DCU, not the DCnU.

For one thing, I think it's emotionally unfair to the audience for the finale to take place in an entirely new universe. The Bruce Wayne there is not a Bruce Wayne we would have an emotional connection with. He's "a" Bruce Wayne, obviously, but he's not "our" Bruce Wayne, the one that readers have been following for years. Giving a stranger the emotional closure that we get in the final pages of Flashpoint is wholly unearned.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^ Or last October as established in the relaunch thread. DiDio at the SDCC stated "October". He didn't state exactly when Oct.

No, but there was reporting back in November of 2009 about a big deal hush-hush creators retreat two years ago where cell phones, etc weren't allowed and big doings - including a Johns/Lee Justice League - were discussed. I'll assume based on the contemporaneous report that this was the genesis of it all and that Didio simply misspoke on the fly much later or that Newsarama misreported.

 

[Captain Craig]

I read JLA #1 last night and was underwhelmed. For a book that launches the "new age" they sure are doing business as usual from the old way ala "writing for the trade". Someone somewhere said it felt like an issue of Brave and Bold and I'd have to agree. Will the next feel more like an "Adventures" team up or Batman & the Outsiders?

So this takes place 5yrs ago and all the other #1's are going to be present day, with few exceptions aka Hex. I'd read the whole first arc is ready but someone said that issue #2 is solicited for 6/7 weeks later? Anyone veriify that? Cause if so that is crazy. I'd have pushed a JLA issue out each week during this relaunch month to really keep people coming back every week and show just how important the book is as a cornerstone to these "mythical new readers" DC is wanting to keep and maintain both at the retail LCS level and digital level.

I've already decided to wait for the TPB on this now. The comic industry is going to have to change how it pushes it's medium to the market. One aspect of our society that we all are accustomed is to "get it now". TV went to the format of showing hot shows every episode in weekly installments. Shows like LOST, 24, True Blood and the hottest ones found that ratings were higher if they didn't take big breaks between episodes. The music industry found that it could make more money if they allowed you to buy the song(s) you wanted vs an album with 5-7 songs you didn't care about. The comic industry is going to lose these "mythical new readers" who don't care to wait 6 months for an arc to unfold. I'd rather wait 9 months and get it all at once than be hanging every 30 days. The comic industy may have to go the manga route and put out more complete stories already packaged together.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Here is a brief article about the Flashpoint mystery woman, which also includes the two page spread from Flashpoint 5 where everything "changes". It doesn't really tell us anything more than we already know, but also shows us her appearance in JL1.

Maybe someone with a scanner can post all of her appearances in the upcoming weeks in this thread?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Bleeding Cool's article is better and points out the other appearances she is in. I posted it earlier in this thread I believe or it was the relaunch thread.