Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Hold on, though... Implicitly, Vandal Savage created the Time Masters because he invented time travel. Yet he only invented time travel because Rip Hunter gave him the idea in the course of hunting him down. So aren't the Time Masters endangering themselves by trying to undo Rip's pursuit of Savage?
So how is it that Stein staying in the future means he'll die because he doesn't have Jefferson to connect with but Jefferson supposedly won't be in any danger at all? Are they just assuming that Jefferson will be able to find a new other half?
And why didn't Stein just go back with him? What use is Stein without Jefferson anyway?
And why didn't Stein just go back with him? What use is Stein without Jefferson anyway?
Nope. Captain America: Civil War was released before that episode aired!
Oh, you mean it still hadn't been released in the States?
Bummer
The episode was ok but I found it very predictable. From Carter and Ray's discussion about soul mates to Savage breaking out of his cell to the Time Master twist at the end, nothing really surprised me.
Maybe Jax isn't as dependent on the connection because he wasn't part of the original merger?
Stein did something to the quantum hoobleywhatsis of the time drive to cause it to reverse Jax's accelerated aging. Perhaps that would've de-aged him too. ...Actually I can't think why that would be a downside for Stein, unless it's that his younger self was even more of a jerk. But no way would the show drop Victor Garber, who's the top-billed cast member.
Man, Ray is the dumbest smart guy in history, which says something on a show spanning this much history.
Ray: I know you're manipulating me, Vandal, and I won't fall for it!
Savage: Yeah, well, why don't you open this biometrically locked cage and fight me like a man, then?
Ray: Drrrr, okay.
Me:
At least Stein Black Widow'd Savage and extracted useful information from him, but the parade of people who felt the need to have an unsupervised heart to heart with the super-manipulative immortal was getting ridiculous.
Ray: I know you're manipulating me, Vandal, and I won't fall for it!
Savage: Yeah, well, why don't you open this biometrically locked cage and fight me like a man, then?
Ray: Drrrr, okay.
Me:
At least Stein Black Widow'd Savage and extracted useful information from him, but the parade of people who felt the need to have an unsupervised heart to heart with the super-manipulative immortal was getting ridiculous.
Man, Ray is the dumbest smart guy in history, which says something on a show spanning this much history.
Ray: I know you're manipulating me, Vandal, and I won't fall for it!
Savage: Yeah, well, why don't you open this biometrically locked cage and fight me like a man, then?
Ray: Drrrr, okay.
Me:
Yeah, I was hoping that would turn out to be part of a plan to trick Savage into doing something, so that it wouldn't be so nonsensical.
There was a Time Sphere built for the Reverse Flash in last season's finale. He said that design was first created by Rip Hunter.
Nothing we have learned about Rip on this show fits with that. That did fit with the original comic book backstory. Where he invented a time machine. He was known singularly as "The Time Master". Later he joined a group headquarters in the Vanishing Point called "The Linear Men". Which is directly what the Time Masters of the show are based on.
Nothing we have learned about Rip on this show fits with that. That did fit with the original comic book backstory. Where he invented a time machine. He was known singularly as "The Time Master". Later he joined a group headquarters in the Vanishing Point called "The Linear Men". Which is directly what the Time Masters of the show are based on.
This show is getting sloppier than a Manwich! Ha!
They gave us the best EP of Arrow and I like the cast a lot. I feel the problems people had with the recent episode.
They gave us the best EP of Arrow and I like the cast a lot. I feel the problems people had with the recent episode.
I figured one of them would wind up freeing Savage. You make the bad guy a prisoner on your ship, there's always a chance he'll get free and cause trouble. Either freed by a collaborator (the Khan method) or by some idiot who thinks opening the cell for a face to face is a good idea. That's a plan that rarely works out well.
Is that a Civil War spoiler up there? Bummer.
Edit: nvm, I see that can be read as just about the release date
Edit: nvm, I see that can be read as just about the release date
He's already having second thoughts about what he's putting his wife through... I doubt he would want to come back young, and ruin that entire relationship.
For whatever reason, Stein has the part of the FS Matrix that requires the other half for balance. If Jax doesn't need Stein to survive, then neither does Ronnie, making the chance that he is still alive on E2 or in the multiverse much more likely.
I don't agree. As I proposed, Jax may not be as dependent because he wasn't part of the original merger. But Stein and Ronnie both were. So if that's the reason, then Ronnie is as dependent on the joining as Stein is.
Then Ronnie is dead.
Logically, there is nothing onscreen that shows that Stein's "other half" will be affected in the same way Stein is, and in the last episode, we are blatantly informed that Jax will be okay while Stein will die. I don't think "original" has anything to do with it. They also showed Stein being able to merge with the Russian firestorm attempt, i believe? So Stein seems to be the foundation. Ronnie was original, yes, but had the same exact role in the merger as Jax does. Jax will be okay, so Ronnie should be okay, as well.
Logically, there is nothing onscreen that shows that Stein's "other half" will be affected in the same way Stein is, and in the last episode, we are blatantly informed that Jax will be okay while Stein will die. I don't think "original" has anything to do with it. They also showed Stein being able to merge with the Russian firestorm attempt, i believe? So Stein seems to be the foundation. Ronnie was original, yes, but had the same exact role in the merger as Jax does. Jax will be okay, so Ronnie should be okay, as well.
That's pretty much been the default assumption all year. And given the state of Robbie Amell's career, it's unlikely to change.
But "logically," one needs to ask why it would affect Stein and Jax differently. The only relevant difference between them I can think of, besides age, is that Stein is part of the original pairing while Jax is not. Or perhaps the difference is that Stein already lost a partner. He and Ronnie were merged; what affected one affected the other. When Ronnie died, that may have damaged Stein in some way.
That seems like an ad hoc assumption to me. A single case does not prove a pattern. Yes, Stein could merge with Valentina, but that proves nothing about their respective abilities to survive going without a merger for an extended period of time.
What you call assumption, I call logical implication.... and most people do NOT think Ronnie is dead, since he has been suggested as the man in the iron mask for months in various forums. The actor very much wants to return, as well.
http://heroichollywood.com/robbie-amell-return-ronnie-raymond-firestorm-flash/
http://screenrant.com/the-flash-firestorm-ronnie-raymond-robbie-amell-emeral-city-comic-con/
http://www.designntrend.com/article...ts-to-play-ronnie-raymond-firestorm-again.htm
Until we know whether or not Ronnie can survive without Stein, then it is equally as probable that Stein alone has the sickness, and that any of his "other halves" can survive on their own. There is nothing that implies the half used during the accident is any different then the halves used to recreate the experiment, as long as the genetics are right.
http://heroichollywood.com/robbie-amell-return-ronnie-raymond-firestorm-flash/
http://screenrant.com/the-flash-firestorm-ronnie-raymond-robbie-amell-emeral-city-comic-con/
http://www.designntrend.com/article...ts-to-play-ronnie-raymond-firestorm-again.htm
Until we know whether or not Ronnie can survive without Stein, then it is equally as probable that Stein alone has the sickness, and that any of his "other halves" can survive on their own. There is nothing that implies the half used during the accident is any different then the halves used to recreate the experiment, as long as the genetics are right.
If you think argumentum ad populum constitutes a logical argument, you need to brush up on fallacies.
Also, what people unconnected with the show imagine might be the case has nothing to do with what's actually in the show. The default working assumption within the show's established reality at this time is that Ronnie Raymond is dead. It's certainly possible that that could change in the future, but logic means giving more weight to the evidence you have than to unsupported speculation. The burden of proof falls on the position that the available evidence is wrong.
We don't have enough evidence to favor either possibility. But at least my hypothesis explains why there would be a difference between the two. You're merely asserting that it would be unique to Stein without offering any explanation.
Except for the fact you just stated, that one was involved in the original accident and the other was not. That is a difference. I don't know for sure whether it's a critical difference, but it is a difference and it should at least be left on the table as a possibility, rather than rejected for no apparent reason.
Or a show with so many dumb people, for that matter....
This show is getting painful to watch. If it gets renewed, I may have to bail on it, unless they get some better writers.