Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1

[The Old Mixer]

A decade or so back, the ex and I used to watch a family drama called American Dreams that took place in early-to-mid-1960s Philadelphia. The show dealt in part with the racial issues of the time, in what certainly seemed like a more authentic manner than LoT. The main protagonist, a white teenage girl, was friends with a black teenage boy whose father worked for her father...with some sexual/romantic tension clearly evident between the two (teenagers, not fathers). In an early episode, he walked her home one night in a perfectly gentlemanly fashion, and it was treated as a huge scandal by both families. "What were you thinking!?!"

 

[Guy Gardener]

Isn't Jax 20 something to be out of college and in work. 'Lost his scholarship, so he didn't finish college... #### black or White, they sent a 23 year old to make out with a 15 year old, until she told them all her secrets.

"I'm zero years old, if anyone's getting into trouble it's the 73 year old sticking her tongue down my zero year old throat."

Did you notice the open book endings?

Jax said that he would meet the girl, and Sara said that she would meet her girl too. Are they going back to that town later on in the series? Not necessarily in 2016, but Vandal had a life there that might be worth investigating further after he's cleared out, so maybe the 70s again?

Um... What's the deal with Cater and Kendra's blood adding 2 centuries to someone's life span? Do the Hawks have to be dead to add life to others, or covered in her blood from being tiny and Fantastic Journeying inside Hawkwoman did Ray "grow" a thimble of her bloody into a barrel of immortalitium?

From the surgery alone, she would have lost blood, and Gideon should be preserving it as an artifact, even if 'it" is not planing on using that artifact.

"Sigh"

 

[dahj]

So what do you reckon, at what point are they gonna start referring to Snart as Citizen Cold?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The history books are going to remember Cisco as the man who named all the Supervillains.

 

[Mr Light]

The Supernamer?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Ultra-Christener.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Pseudonym Lad!

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well, it's not like there were actual ninjas hanging around in Japan at the time. But someone could've picked up the idea from Japanese literature or theater. (The cliche of the black-costumed ninja comes from the theater, in fact. Real ninjas just dressed as ordinary people, to blend in. The black costumes were worn by theater stagehands who, by convention, were treated as invisible and nonexistent by the performers and audience. Then somebody had the idea to have one of those "invisible" stagehands shock the audience by suddenly killing one of the characters, playing into the myth of ninja invisibility. Basically the Japanese version of breaking the fourth wall. And that gimmick caught on to the point that the black stagehand costumes became indelibly associated with ninjas.)

Interesting. There's a series of Japanese porn about invisible men molesting women, where the invisible men are just guys wearing white spandex.


Which I know from a friend of mine. Yes, a friend.

Maybe it got fixed when jumping to a new series. In the same way omnisexual Captain Jack seemed to become exclusively gay on Torchwood.

That always kinda bugged me.

Same with Willow on BtVS, once she's with Tara she's a complete lesbian, to the point where she schemes to turn that boy with the magic jacket in that one episode from season 7 into a girl. But before she got involved with Tara, she very much appeared to be attracted to both Xander and Oz. So, my instinct was always that she was actually bi, or "100% lesbian" by choice.

Of course, I'm a straight dude, so my instincts might very well be completely wrong about this and the experience of actual homosexual people is pretty much like this.

But, just to add to the pit I'm digging for myself here, a (female, for what it's worth to the argument) friend and fellow geek of mine suggested that, back in the day, mainstream audiences back in the day (hey, it's been more than a decade) were still pigeonholing in the categories of only straight or gay, had trouble with the concept of bisexuality as more than a phase.

And now, I'm gonna sit in the corner and feel ashamed for all the straight-splaining I just did.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Her joy scale was redefined.

 

[davejames]

There was some cute comedy, but I really did not care for the 1950s episode. From the clumsy censored way they deal with racism and homophobia to the lameness of Vandal Savage posing as a doctor with a fake wife to the laughable hawk mutants to the abrupt ending where Chronos shows up out of nowhere yet again.... not a lot to gush over in this one.

Yeah I agree the racism and sexism was dealt with in a fairly simplistic way, but I still liked that they acknowledged the problem throughout and made an effort to poke a hole in this ridiculous myth of the 50s being this perfectly innocent and idyllic time that we should all want to go back to.

I'm actually pretty shocked to hear the show got renewed. I read things about how the show was way too expensive for the network. I really, really hope Season 2 is NOT about Vandal Savage but someone else. I still don't think the character or the actor are working.

Actually the producers have already stated

Spoiler: spoiler

that the Savage storyline is going to be wrapped up this season, and they're following the format of Arrow and Flash where every season brings on a new big bad.

 

[dahj]

Actually the producers have already stated

Spoiler: spoiler

that the Savage storyline is going to be wrapped up this season, and they're following the format of Arrow and Flash where every season brings on a new big bad.

Yep, they've also said

Spoiler: spoiler

that the good guys team may change partially or even completely.

^^
I don't think that needs to be spoiler tagged though as it doesn't reveal any of the actual plot, just the general format of the show.

 

[tenmei]

Yep, they've also said

Spoiler: spoiler

that the good guys team may change partially or even completely.

^^
I don't think that needs to be spoiler tagged though as it doesn't reveal any of the actual plot, just the general format of the show.

Spoiler: Spoiler

It does however tell us they're going to defeat the villain this season - ergo: spoiler. I'm guessing that as Hawkgirl is so tied into the Savage Arc, if this may mean we'll loose Hawkgirl at the end of the season. I'm hoping for Vixen and "Connor Hawke" to join the team next season, perhaps even Wildcat.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Kendra Kills Vandal Savage in/at Vanishing Point, it's a meaningless victory if he got there by waiting, and not by time travel, if he's actually and literally 30 billion billion years old, because despite bleeding out on her knife, he'll still be around for the last 30 billion billion years pestering herself and Carter.

 

[Captain Craig]

I just got caught up on the show and while I could nit pick a variety of things here's my real itch at the moment.

You are John Diggle Jr. what is with the whole "I'm Connor Hawke". At one point I thought they might even explain it, but that moment passed and they didn't. It just reeks of fanwakery that the writers sitting in a writers room did just to do it.

Not sure how interested I am in a Heat Wave focused episode. As the brick of the outfit sorts out his hurt feelings and where is loyalties lie with and if any loyalty still exists to him from Snart. Perhaps the B-stoy will be solid but if its' more Kendra flirting I may be bored all episode. I hope not.

 

[kirk55555]

I really wish they had just done a real Connor Hawke. but, its an Arrow related thing, and if there is one thing Berlanti & Co can be counted on nowadays, its that they will ruin almost anything related to the character of Green Arrow.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think they've done a great job with the GA characters.

 

[kirk55555]

I think they've done a great job with the GA characters.

I don't think they've done anything good with a Green Arrow character since Season 2 ended, which is why I don't watch the show anymore. I mean, Ray and Sara are pretty good, but I don't really consider Ray a Arrow character so much as a character who happens to be from Arrow, and Sara is far enough away from the Felicity drama to survive Arrow mostly unscathed. But, Arrow still has the worst live action Oliver Queen ever (which is impressive because for the first two seasons he was not only the best GA/Oliver Queen, but one of the best live action TV superheroes), completely botched Black Canary and Arsenal, and let's not even talk about what they did to Amanda Waller. They also made Felicity Smoake from a decent tech support character into the worst thing to happen to a DC comics property since Joel Schumacher.

When Arrow was a superhero show, it was very good. As a show that is now basically about Felicity Smoake being whiny and how Oliver deals with their relationship, its basically an average soap opera with less amnesia and somehow more relationship drama. Arrow needs new writers, and they need to get Berlanti off the show completely. As it is, it went from being one of the best superhero live action shows to being probably the worst DC hero show on TV right now. In a world with Supergirl and Gotham, being the worst show starring DC characters is a horrifying "accomplishment".

 

[Grendelsbayne]

If Kendra Kills Vandal Savage in/at Vanishing Point, it's a meaningless victory if he got there by waiting, and not by time travel, if he's actually and literally 30 billion billion years old, because despite bleeding out on her knife, he'll still be around for the last 30 billion billion years pestering herself and Carter.

It won't happen then. The whole point of the plot is to prevent Savage's world war. His death has to happen before that point.

I just got caught up on the show and while I could nit pick a variety of things here's my real itch at the moment.

You are John Diggle Jr. what is with the whole "I'm Connor Hawke". At one point I thought they might even explain it, but that moment passed and they didn't. It just reeks of fanwakery that the writers sitting in a writers room did just to do it.

Seem explained enough to me. 'I couldn't save my father, I don't deserve that name' - or something to that effect, I don't recall the exact wording. Not a particularly deep and layered motivation, but we're talking about a one-off character.

I don't think they've done anything good with a Green Arrow character since Season 2 ended, which is why I don't watch the show anymore. I mean, Ray and Sara are pretty good, but I don't really consider Ray a Arrow character so much as a character who happens to be from Arrow, and Sara is far enough away from the Felicity drama to survive Arrow mostly unscathed. But, Arrow still has the worst live action Oliver Queen ever (which is impressive because for the first two seasons he was not only the best GA/Oliver Queen, but one of the best live action TV superheroes), completely botched Black Canary and Arsenal, and let's not even talk about what they did to Amanda Waller. They also made Felicity Smoake from a decent tech support character into the worst thing to happen to a DC comics property since Joel Schumacher.

When Arrow was a superhero show, it was very good. As a show that is now basically about Felicity Smoake being whiny and how Oliver deals with their relationship, its basically an average soap opera with less amnesia and somehow more relationship drama. Arrow needs new writers, and they need to get Berlanti off the show completely. As it is, it went from being one of the best superhero live action shows to being probably the worst DC hero show on TV right now. In a world with Supergirl and Gotham, being the worst show starring DC characters is a horrifying "accomplishment".

Eh. It was early season 2 when I first tried to get into Arrow - according to many of the series' big fans I've seen that's supposed to be one of the high points - and even then it was terrible. Bland. Soapish. Unbelievably generic. (The sets and music alone gave me flashbacks to the worst 90s tv dramas). Not an interesting character or actor to be seen. I was literally forcing myself to watch until I realized that it was stupid to keep forcing myself to watch something that didn't even have a single redeeming characteristic. Arrow was always the worst show starring DC characters. At least Gotham has good production values and talented actors.

 

[kirk55555]

Eh. It was early season 2 when I first tried to get into Arrow - according to many of the series' big fans I've seen that's supposed to be one of the high points - and even then it was terrible. Bland. Soapish. Unbelievably generic. (The sets and music alone gave me flashbacks to the worst 90s tv dramas). Not an interesting character or actor to be seen. I was literally forcing myself to watch until I realized that it was stupid to keep forcing myself to watch something that didn't even have a single redeeming characteristic. Arrow was always the worst show starring DC characters. At least Gotham has good production values and talented actors.

Production values get you nothing when the writing is as atrocious, and the people in charge as bad, as what Gotham has. Plus, I'd argue the talented actor thing. I haven't watched it in awhile, but as someone who thinks Stephen Amell is a legitimately good actor when he has good material, I'd say he definitely beats (just off the top of my head) Gotham's Gordon, Bullock, Penguin and Ridder in the acting department. But, in the end, Gotham's people don't understand any of the Batman characters at all. At least Arrow's crew used to understand Green Arrow. I mean, yeah, if I was forced to choose between watching Season 4 Arrow or Gotham, I'd choose Gotham, but that's not a compliment, its the (barely) lesser of two evils at this point. They may be mangling the Batman mythos over at Gotham, but at least they don't have Felicity

 

[davejames]

Wow, you really really do not like Felicity.

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of Arrow either (although I do find it a decent enough guilty pleasure), but I still don't think it's worth getting as emotionally worked up over as you always seem to. These shows are not trying to be great art by any means.