ha ha, I had the same thought.
Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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ha ha, I had the same thought.
No. It is now just a potential future, and one that Rip Hunter is trying to make sure never comes about. In fact, I don't know why Rip is going on about there being differences between actual futures and potential futures; they're all potential futures as long as they keep fiddling with the past. In fact, everything since his attempt to kill Savage in Ancient Egypt is just a potential future.
Hell, I'm not even sure why he tries to convince anyone that any timeline can become permanent. As shown, even 2016 is mutable due to their incompetent mangling with the past.
But hey, comic books and DC in particular, doesn't really pay any attention to any semblance of reality/believability. The whole multiple Earths having the exact same people in it but through different circumstances and different histories kind of says it all.
So that concludes "Diggle week".
They should definitely make this a yearly thing.
By the way, why didn't Dig Jr. mention his older sister who was named after the time traveling blonde chick who saved his life? Actually now that I think about it it would have been way cooler if Sara Diggle was the new Green Arrrow...
They should definitely make this a yearly thing.
By the way, why didn't Dig Jr. mention his older sister who was named after the time traveling blonde chick who saved his life? Actually now that I think about it it would have been way cooler if Sara Diggle was the new Green Arrrow...
I'm not willfully ignoring it. I've already addressed it. And I've already moved on from this discussion.
It ties into a rule that isn't a rule at all. Rip makes claims and the show immediately contradicts him. Stein interfered with his own past. So did Snart. Nothing prevented them from doing so, it was just kind of risky (and yet, still didn't actually result in any harm). So there is absolutely no reason why they can't go back and try to kill Savage in exactly the same time and place a hundred times over, if they think it's worth the risk (which they apparently do, since they're already repeatedly screwing up the timeline to get to him).
Also, the fact that they always have the option to just go back a little farther and undo things without interfering in the moment they were present in means that the past clearly cannot ever be 'set'.
See above. They're not being consistent at all.
There's no functional difference between those hypothetical timelines. They're just different timelines. One may be worse than the other. That one may or may not be the 'original'.
It makes little sense to apply narrative considerations to the necessarily probabilistic assessments of fictional characters who don't know they're fictional characters. None of these people have any visible reason to assume that two more heroes would have turned the tide, yet they all speak as if it were an undeniable fact. If these two were really THAT amazing, this show would be over now and savage would already be dead.
In a way that seems designed to promote your goal to dismiss the scenario as unsalvageable. I don't see the value of criticizing something without offering a solution.
That's a different matter altogether. We're talking about time travelers trying to undo their own actions as time travelers -- for instance, going back to prevent Ray from losing the piece of his Atom suit in the first place. Once a time traveler initiates a change, then they can't go back and stop themselves from initiating it; they have to move forward in time from there and find some other way to fix it.
And you're again ignoring the distinction between the original timeline and a timeline created by time-travel intervention. The former can be changed; the latter can only be made worse if the time travelers try to double back on themselves. Because, as the show has established, time travel creates problems that the normal flow of history does not have, so trying to fix a time-travel mishap with more time travel is probably just going to compound the damage. This is something the franchise has been consistently clear on ever since the Flash first went back in time: that time travel is disruptive and has dangerous consequences.
I think they're being entirely consistent. You just seem to be missing some details.
That's never once been stated in the entire show. The claim they made was that they couldn't interfere in 'events they had already participated in'. They broke that claim twice in the first three episodes.
Again, this is not established anywhere in the show. Time travel itself does not seem to cause problems. Only incompetent time travel causes problems.
Yes, obviously it will always have consequences and sometimes those consequences will be unexpected (yet, other times they seem to be very straightforward). None of that comes anywhere near saying that more time travel automatically causes more problems, and even if that were the case, whether one went back to the exact same moment 100 times or went to 100 different moments once, the problem of consequences would still always apply. There is absolutely no reason to assume the original timeline must be better, because if that were the case, then everything a time traveler did - whether they were doing it for the first time or the fiftieth - would automatically make things worse. And that would make the entire show dead in the water.
I think you seem to be filling in the missing details in your own mind based on what you think the show is saying. They're certainly not on the screen.
So that concludes "Diggle week".
They should definitely make this a yearly thing.
By the way, why didn't Dig Jr. mention his older sister who was named after the time traveling blonde chick who saved his life? Actually now that I think about it it would have been way cooler if Sara Diggle was the new Green Arrrow...
Or because of their adventures in the 70s and 80s "different" Diggles inseminated Lilas egg and that is up to %50 the same child maybe, or that is Sarah Diggle and she's transgendered.
Yeah, definitely a great week for DiggleSo that concludes "Diggle week".
They should definitely make this a yearly thing.
By the way, why didn't Dig Jr. mention his older sister who was named after the time traveling blonde chick who saved his life? Actually now that I think about it it would have been way cooler if Sara Diggle was the new Green Arrrow...
And your right -- awesome weak for Diggle - shows what a strong/positive character he is.
True -- would have been awesome if it was Sara taking on the mantle -- and meeting her namesake.
But double easter egg --- not just of COnnor....but apparently his full name is John Connor Diggle....John Connor, future resistance leader in a post apocalyptic world...
I get that intellectually, but he could have explained it better and a bit more sensitively. I don't remember his exact phrasing...something along the lines of "it's not real" or "it doesn't matter"...but it sounded far too cavalier, and even amateurish for someone who's supposed to be an expert in the field of time travel. It ceased to be a hypothetical situation when the Waverider was stranded in that timeline. What's more, they'd already played a role in influencing events in that future, so they bore some responsibility for that, in the event that they might not be able to prevent it from happening.
My bottom line from this is that I realize that Rip isn't a very likable character...and not in a "love to hate" or "entertaining asshole" sort of way...he's just a bore. As with Savage, they could have used somebody with a little more gravitas in that role.
This.
Imagine in particular if the Legends team turned on Rip Hunter or deliberately took actions that prevented his existence or the existence of his family. He is only a potential future to them. Even by the rules that the show has supposedly laid out, his traveling back in time to interact with them is giving them the opportunity to turn him into only a potential future. And the entire premise of the show is based around attempting to alter the future that Rip comes from. So should the Legends be as cavalier about altering things in a way that's harmful to Rip as he is about divergent timelines?
Well, yes, that was the point of his dramatic arc in the episode -- that he was being insensitive and needed to learn that it still mattered. But I was saying that his point of view didn't come about at random, that there was an understandable reason why he saw things the way he did based on his experience. It's possible for both points of view in a debate to be valid, you know. Heck, that's the most interesting kind of disagreement in fiction -- the kind where both characters have legitimate points of view. Hunter was approaching it from the perspective of a seasoned veteran, Sara from the perspective of a novice. Both have their own benefits and their own blind spots. Sometimes being too experienced at something means you get too ossified in your views or take things for granted that you would've given more thought as a novice -- for instance, people who've been driving for decades are less likely to check their mirrors than people who've only recently learned to drive. But that doesn't mean an experienced perspective should be dismissed out of hand.
Which, again, is where the argument between the characters actually did go. Rip said "This timeline will go away once you get back to 2016," and Sara sensibly asked "What if we don't get back?" His experience, his habits of thought, made him so overconfident that he overlooked something that a novice thought of.
Hunter does seem to be pretty bad at his job, granted, but he is a renegade and something of a charlatan. I think his mistakes and failures are an intentional part of his character, that he's supposed to be an antihero and a damaged character with a lot of growing to do. Maybe we'll see him get better over time. (I'm reminded that the first incarnation of the Doctor in Doctor Who was initially more a troublemaker and a self-centered figure, and only gradually learned to be heroic through the example of the schoolteachers he essentially abducted in the TARDIS.)
Whatever he's supposed to be, he doesn't have the charisma to make it interesting, for my money.
The first episodes weren't good enough for me to want to go back and try to figure out more exactly how the time stuff works. At least these last two have been entertaining.
Every time Arthur Darvill calls Heat Wave "Mister Rory", I get a knowing smile on my face.
I think Darvill's doing quite well in the role.
Is Hunter married or a widower, because those talks with Sara seemed "intimate".
Savage has manipulatd so many world events throughout history, that taking him out too early could absolutely and totally rewrite all of history. They want to preserve their own personal timelines by quietly taking away his resources, money and power, weakening him until they find the perfect point to take him out.
Usually in time travel stories like this, the universe allows them to "replace" their former selves in some sort of "overwrite"..... they are physically present making changes and choices throughout the timeline, and as the "travelers" are inherently protected from these changes, since they are the physical lynchpin that *causes* the changes. Much like Marty in BTTF, (or Barry the 2 times he's time traveled) they will be in a new timeline while retaining their old memories.... if they succeed, this shouldn't affect anyone but Rip, really, since the present timeline won't be altered much; just the future one.