Holy Comic Possibilities, Batman!
Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Ya know, it's easier to immerse yourself in a time travel show when they are consistant with the rules they have established. In this very episode we are reminded that you cannot travel back over events you've experienced because of paradoxes, bad, whatever. Then they show us Rory has been Chronos since the beginning. (Kendra referenced him killing her son to illustrate the point). So since the series began Rory has been doing nothing but running over his own timeline, and it doesn't appear that any disasters have occurred.
Remain consistant with your own rules, people. It's not that hard.
Remain consistant with your own rules, people. It's not that hard.
Rory was there.
Failing to get these people, all those near misses is the history that makes up his memories.
If he had tried a little harder, and accidentally killed someone he hadn't killed before or won the whole damn game, that would have violated continuity and cause an explosive paradox.
Failing to get these people, all those near misses is the history that makes up his memories.
If he had tried a little harder, and accidentally killed someone he hadn't killed before or won the whole damn game, that would have violated continuity and cause an explosive paradox.
Would be funny if any of the Arrowverse shows went to Gotham at some point and it's a clean idyllic city because some bat guy solved all crime back in the '70s
Could argue that because the Time Masters were involved in rescuing Mick, training him and turning him into Chronos he's a special case.
Secondly yes we've seen Chronos since the beginning but it's possible that some-one else was in the suit till Rip took the gang through time and space and started mucking about with time lines.
That doesn't excuse the fact that he seemed confident he could create paradox after paradox after paradox by killing Snart's sister repeatedly.
My take on it is - you can't go back and intervene in events to try and alter their path away from what you have previously experienced. The sequence of events that occured from Chronos tracking the team were the ones that Mick had already experienced - therefore he never actually sought to alter (or altered) his own timeline, merely created the one he'd already seen.
I thought of that, but Chronos's mission is nominally to stop Rip and his team. So unless he was deliberately throwing the fights, he was at least trying to alter his past.
Nope. Doing it, even the first time, is exactly that; interfering in your own timeline. Otherwise, that explanation works for -any- interfering you do, as you would have already experienced it from your earlier incarnation's point of view... exactly like Mick did with Chronos. And if just wearing a helmet and/or hiding your involvement is all it takes, then that's something anyone could do.
Nevermind that it seemed to work fine for Stein, and is just a "rule" that exists when the writer's don't want to do something, as opposed to any actual consequence in the show when they ignore it.
If in prison they did it a couple times, then Heatwave is just a confused exboyfriend, and this makes so much more sense.
Look at is how mercenary Rip is being.
Heatwave was a dummy that had to be killed.
Chronos was his equal or superior in a couple fields, so he had to be saved.
How long did Rory spend learning to use that tech including a fricking spaceship?
If the Time Masters stopped him from ageing, it could have been 20 years, and Mick Rory has a couple dozen degrees.
Look at is how mercenary Rip is being.
Heatwave was a dummy that had to be killed.
Chronos was his equal or superior in a couple fields, so he had to be saved.
How long did Rory spend learning to use that tech including a fricking spaceship?
If the Time Masters stopped him from ageing, it could have been 20 years, and Mick Rory has a couple dozen degrees.
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He may have intended to top Rip and his team and he may have been intending to try and alter his past - but events played out exactly in the way he had previously experienced them. So, although he was theoretically interfering in his own timeline - because he caused the events he had already experienced, not alteration to the timeline occured.
That might work for how you'd usually concieve time travel - but we've already seen in this show the usual rules do not exist. I think we've got three different scenario's so far - but they all work to the same basic concept, it seems.
Scenario 1 (the Chronos Theory/On Track)
i) Person A experiences Event A
ii) Time passes
iii) Person A travels back in time and causes Event A that he previously experienced.
Scenario 2 (the Episode 2 Theory/Off Track)
i) Person A experiences Event A
ii) Time passes
iii) Person A travels back in time, stops Event A from occuring and causes Event B
Scenario 3 (the Stein Theory/Back on Track)
i) Person A experiences Event A
ii) Time passes
iii) Person A travels back in time, stops Event A from occuring and causes Event B
iv) As the changes do not occur until a tipping point (and time becomes 'set') Person A subsequently causes Event C, which replaces Event B
v) Event C is sufficiently identical to Event A that no changes occur*
*- (aka 'Perhaps this is what actually occured in the first place but the character just doesn't remember')
Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 are exactly the same. You're just looking at it from an audience's perspective rather than the reality of the show. The only difference between 1 and 2 is that you, the audience, didn't know what was going on. In Scenario 1, Mick already went back in time and caused Event B by interfering with Event A (which would have been Mick just time traveling without interference).
And, again, this ignores Mick saying -- with utmost confidence and no worries about destroying the timeline -- that he was planning on killing Snart's sister, going back a few moments, killing her again, going back even earlier and killing her again, and on and on and on, each time creating an exponentially huge paradox in the process.
But, apparently, they can't just kick Adam and Hawkgirl out of the ship, go back to '58 or whenever it was, and pick them up when they were expecting it because of Reasons™.
It really is just the writer's making up bullshit excuses depending on what they feel like writing. This sort of thing is starting to become a common trend in these shows, annoying even in a single episode. The tipping point for me was the recent Supergirl episode with the nuclear missile, where her speed and strength mysteriously changed (and in an absolutely massive way) after only 20 minutes or so of airtime.
And, again, this ignores Mick saying -- with utmost confidence and no worries about destroying the timeline -- that he was planning on killing Snart's sister, going back a few moments, killing her again, going back even earlier and killing her again, and on and on and on, each time creating an exponentially huge paradox in the process.
But, apparently, they can't just kick Adam and Hawkgirl out of the ship, go back to '58 or whenever it was, and pick them up when they were expecting it because of Reasons™.
It really is just the writer's making up bullshit excuses depending on what they feel like writing. This sort of thing is starting to become a common trend in these shows, annoying even in a single episode. The tipping point for me was the recent Supergirl episode with the nuclear missile, where her speed and strength mysteriously changed (and in an absolutely massive way) after only 20 minutes or so of airtime.
That was another thing that irked me a little, though it's relatively minor. Mentioning that there is a place outside of time and space where you didn't age and all that, then ignoring that's kind of what Nanda Parbat is supposed to be, but there's no mention of that whatsoever.
Vanishing Point is the last moment of time before the end of the universe.
Entropy, heat death, whatever you want to call it.
Entropy, heat death, whatever you want to call it.
i wonder if the rules of non-interfering are more like Trek's Prime Directive... so intensely taught that it seems like "truth" rather than simply a really good idea or "best practices"... or like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters... generally a bad idea, but some occasional exceptions.
I don't know if we mentioned...but couldn't the group have found a reincarnated Carter Hall in 2046? Or is his absence a recognition from the producers that the pair didn't actually have chemistry, and they quickly course corrected?
I don't know if we mentioned...but couldn't the group have found a reincarnated Carter Hall in 2046? Or is his absence a recognition from the producers that the pair didn't actually have chemistry, and they quickly course corrected?
No, his death happened at the end of the 2-part pilot, so it's safe to say it was always intended -- which is probably why they didn't cast a stronger actor in the role to begin with.
I agree that he was badly cast. But along with being part of the plan to kill him off early, they may have planned to resurrect him later too. I was never surprised he died early. Remember Hawkman was never part of the original cast leaks or first announcements. Given that both have been reincarnated and this a time travel show, there are many ways they could bring him back if they choose. Either in a past life or in the future.
The series has been so vague about the Hawks previous lives. When was Kendra recent Birth? How much time was there between that and her previous death?
Crappy as the actor was, on a show with this premise, it'd be a lost opportunity not to encounter one of his other lives.
I asked this question nearer the beginning of the thread.
Greg explained in an interview, that as soon as BOTH Hawks are dead, they both simultaneously reincarnate. Maybe Carter is being held in limbo waiting for Kendra to kick the bucket, before her Bae gets to be stuffed into a new baby?
Although maybe Carter from the Wave Rider would have got reincarnated when the contemporary set of Hawks got reincarnated next and he didn't have to wait around for his specific Kendra to buy the farm, who as a time traveller might have died hundreds of years into the past or future.
Greg explained in an interview, that as soon as BOTH Hawks are dead, they both simultaneously reincarnate. Maybe Carter is being held in limbo waiting for Kendra to kick the bucket, before her Bae gets to be stuffed into a new baby?
Although maybe Carter from the Wave Rider would have got reincarnated when the contemporary set of Hawks got reincarnated next and he didn't have to wait around for his specific Kendra to buy the farm, who as a time traveller might have died hundreds of years into the past or future.