Spoilers DC TV Arrow/Flash Universe Crossover Discussion

[dahj]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying and that's why a standalone mini series or movie would work better.

Ideally yes, but they're already doing 23 episode seasons, they deserve some time off

As for blu-rays, the previous season set for both Arrow and Flash included the crossover episode of the other show, I guess this seasons' ones will too, so fans of only one show actually benefit by getting essentially extra episodes each season due to crossovers

 

[Stephen Lee]

Nevermind that the turning the bullet around made no sense whatsover.

It seemed the idea was to have the bullet hit the shooter & immobilize him.

Underused Supergirl. I had the same feelings but it might just to a actor/contact, usage issue? She is under contract to do Supergirl. They might have had to pay her extra for appearing in the other shows and/or her availability was limited?? Likewise with all the other actors crossing over into each other's show.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

It seemed the idea was to have the bullet hit the shooter & immobilize

Yes, but from a physics stand point it was bollocks. Flash turned thebullet mid flight, but that should't have reversed it's trajectory
Now, if he grabbed the bullet, looping it around, behind the shooter that would have a different matter...I think.

 

[Commander Richard]

As for blu-rays, the previous season set for both Arrow and Flash included the crossover episode of the other show, I guess this seasons' ones will too, so fans of only one show actually benefit by getting essentially extra episodes each season due to crossovers

After I posted, I figured they might do that. Nice to hear that they already have.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, but from a physics stand point it was bollocks. Flash turned thebullet mid flight, but that should't have reversed it's trajectory

Actually, if he'd just moved it slightly toward the agent's chest at superspeed, that would've imparted a lot of momentum in that direction.

Now, if he grabbed the bullet, looping it around, behind the shooter that would have a different matter...I think.

Doesn't work that way. If he catches the bullet and stops it, then it loses its forward momentum, period, just like if you catch a ball. He's imparting an acceleration to it by stopping it or moving it in another direction. If he moved it backward behind the shooter, then the only thing moving it that way is his own muscle power, not the bullet's own momentum that he already absorbed in the act of stopping it. So if he put it behind the guy and just let it go from a stationary position, it'd just fall down.

If it were teleported from one position to another, then its momentum would be conserved, but he's actually physically moving it, exerting a force on it, so its momentum is not conserved. (Unless you say it had something to do with the Speed Force, because mumblemumbleSpeedForcemumble seems to justify any impossibility.)

Anyway, that was a bothersome stunt. Even aside from the absurd physics that were implied, t's out of character for the Flash to arrange for the man to get shot rather than just disarming him and knocking him out. And he did seem to be pointing the bullet troublingly close to the man's heart.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I meant in a slingshot kind of way, not canceling it's momentum but adding to it.

 

[Christopher]

I meant in a slingshot kind of way, not canceling it's momentum but adding to it.

If he moves it backward, then he first must cancel out all of its forward momentum. It's the same physics as if you're moving a ball around, just a lot faster. If you catch a ball, move it in the opposite direction, and let it go, it's not magically going to keep going the way it was before you caught it. All that momentum was completely expended when you caught it and changed its direction, so it's no longer a factor. The only momentum it has when you let go of it is what you give it at that moment.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Ok then.
Then no matter what Flash does, he couldn't manipulate the bullet to hit the agent with it's original momentum.
So either he gives the bullet new (probably non lethal) momentum or moves the agent in front of the bullet instead (which would probably kill him anyway if we apply real world physics)

 

[Christopher]

So either he gives the bullet new (probably non lethal) momentum or moves the agent in front of the bullet instead (which would probably kill him anyway if we apply real world physics)

Yeah, being instantly accelerated to Flash speed would pretty much liquefy anyone. That's the sort of thing where we have to invoke the Speed Force having some kind of inertial-damping effect.

I noticed an interesting detail in X-Men: Apocalypse when I watched it the other day -- when Quicksilver zoomed Mystique away from Magneto for the final fight, he put his hand behind her head first, presumably to make sure she didn't get whiplash when he accelerated her. But he accelerated her so fast that it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. (And now I can't talk about Quicksilver without getting "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" stuck in my head...)

 

[Stephen Lee]

when Quicksilver zoomed Mystique away from Magneto for the final fight, he put his hand behind her head first, presumably to make sure she didn't get whiplash when he accelerated her.

He did the same thing when he helped Magneto escape from the Pentagon in First Class.

I assumed the MIB agent was wearing a bulletproof vest under his suit or something, but still getting hit by a bullet would knock you down. Better than getting a full on punch from Barry, and we know what happened last time Barry punched someone.

 

[Christopher]

He did the same thing when he helped Magneto escape from the Pentagon in First Class.

I figure he probably did it with the kids he rescued from the school earlier (oh, there's that song in my head again), but the camera angle was facing them so we didn't see it.

I assumed the MIB agent was wearing a bulletproof vest under his suit or something, but still getting hit by a bullet would knock you down. Better than getting a full on punch from Barry, and we know what happened last time Barry punched someone.

I hadn't thought about the vest possibility -- that would be preferable to Barry suddenly deciding to kill some guy as a cute stunt, though it still seems like kind of a jerk move.

But in fact, getting hit by a bullet would not knock you down. The Mythbusters debunked that twice, and you can find YouTube videos debunking it too. A bullet just doesn't have enough kinetic energy to impart more force to the body than the equivalent of a mild shove. And any experienced hunter will tell you that animals who get shot will more likely run away than fall over, unless you happen to hit a vital area. The reasons why people fall down when shot are unclear, but it's probably due to the pain and concussive shock glitching the nervous system, or even due to a conditioned psychological reflex to fall down so as to present less of a target.

Unsurprisingly, even fiction is quite inconsistent about this. A lot of action scenes assume that getting hit by a bullet with fling a person backward as much as several yards, depending on the absurdity (though the shooter is never thrown back with equivalent force as Newton's Third Law would demand), but there are also tropes that depend on characters not being knocked down by bullets -- like the trope of characters thinking they're fine and only gradually realizing they've been shot, or the trope where two people are wrestling over a gun that goes off and they both stay standing for several moments before one falls dead.

To go back to X-Men: Apocalypse, there was Wolverine's cameo where he was shot many times and didn't get knocked down. And he only has a healing factor, not superstrength. If bullets did knock people over, he would've been knocked over.

 

[dahj]

Underused Supergirl. I had the same feelings but it might just to a actor/contact, usage issue?

It's not a contract issue, the producers have talked about how difficult it was to bring this about from a logistical standpoint and juggle all the schedules for all casts and crews, because all these shows are basically shooting at the same time.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

He did the same thing when he helped Magneto escape from the Pentagon in First Class.

In that movie it was even pointed out. Since i saw that movie, i'm thinking back to that scene every time, some arrowverse-speedster moves someone else around without bracing their neck.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

I assumed the MIB agent was wearing a bulletproof vest under his suit or something, but still getting hit by a bullet would knock you down.

Not really. Falling down when shot is mostly psychological unless it's to a location that would actually cause you to fall over (such as a kneecap). It's no worse than getting (slightly) shoved. You certainly don't get knocked off the ground and back a few feet.

 

[Snaploud]

(though the shooter is never thrown back with equivalent force as Newton's Third Law would demand),

Per the wikipedia article on recoil:

Although energy must be conserved, this does not mean that the kinetic energy of the bullet must be equal to the recoil energy of the gun: in fact, it is many times greater. For example, a bullet fired from an M16 rifle has approximately 1763 Joules of kinetic energy as it leaves the muzzle, but the recoil energy of the gun is less than 7 Joules. Despite this imbalance, energy is still conserved because the total energy in the system before firing (the chemical energy stored in the propellant) is equal to the total energy after firing (the kinetic energy of the recoiling firearm, plus the kinetic energy of the bullet and other ejecta, plus the heat energy from the explosion). In order to work out the distribution of kinetic energy between the firearm and the bullet, it is necessary to use the law of conservation of momentum in combination with the law of conservation of energy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil

 

[Stephen Lee]

the producers have talked about how difficult it was to bring this about from a logistical standpoint and juggle all the schedules for all casts and crews,

Ah cool. I don't really watch the producers etc stuff. So good to know.

Not really. Falling down when shot is mostly psychological unless it's to a location that would actually cause you to fall over (such as a kneecap). It's no worse than getting (slightly) shoved.

Yeah, agreed. I don't know. Its a sci-fi/superhero show, weird stuff happens. I guess then maybe the sudden shock of getting shot would confuse/disorient the MIB guy? One second you fired a shot and then suddenly a split second later you feel the sting of a bullet hitting you. How would you react?

The Mythbusters debunked that twice, and you can find YouTube videos debunking it too.

Oh cool. I will look that up.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And now I'm wondering about the death of most of the JSA in the early '50s and the apparent disappearance of metahumans from Earth until 2014. Could it be that the metas of the '40s and '50s were assassinated or forced into hiding as a result of the treaty with the Dominators?

In the Pre and Post Crisis DCU the JSA were forced to retire in the early 50s by the House Un-American Activities Committee

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Looking forward to the crossovers next year...
Would you guys think it would be worth it to have a b-team episode before or after the crossover episodes to free up time for the main characters to feature more heavily in the crossovers themselves?

 

[Christopher]

Would you guys think it would be worth it to have a b-team episode before or after the crossover episodes to free up time for the main characters to feature more heavily in the crossovers themselves?

Oh, you mean sort of like a "Doctor-lite" episode of Doctor Who, focusing on the companion(s) or guest stars?

I would totally be up for a Felicity-Cisco team-up episode. You don't even need a bad guy, just film them bantering for 40 minutes.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Exactly like that.