Spoilers DC TV Arrow/Flash Universe Crossover Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Timelord Victorious, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I don't think it was meant to be a laugh at Diggle's exspense - more a referrence to how quickly he was grabbed by Barry. the way it looked to me was he'd just had a needle and might have been feeling less than stellar and the sudden movement added to the nausea and the rest we know.
     
  2. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Diggle has a history of vomiting after Barry uses his superspeed unexpectedly, on him. It happened in last year's crossover, IIRC, when Barry went to recruit Team Arrow and ended up saving them from Prometheus. :crazy:

    Barry should know better. ;)
     
  3. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    What exactly does Diggle even experience when moved (from one city to another) at super-speed by Barry? Shouldn't his clothes catch fire (without the special suit)? Could he even beathe?
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Speed Force.
     
  5. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    So, he gets to talk with wormhole aliens?
     
  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Diggle's not keen on aliens.
     
  7. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    Is that why he didn't come to the wedding? It seems weird that they chose him to perform the ceremony if he didn't previously merit an invite.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Is he close with Barry and Iris?
     
  9. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Motion.

    He gets accelerated then decelerated when Barry comes to a stop plus all the turns Barry would have made.

    Most people just get a very short trip with the flash. John's would have been long which would have messed with the inner ear and hey presto up-chucko.
     
  10. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's kind of the crossover event in a nutshell: apart from Stein's death (which, beyond his absence going forward, meant pretty much nothing to the world beyond the maintenance of the status quo), pretty much everything was done in search of a gag. (Nor could I take the scene of Stein getting shot at all seriously when, in a hail of machine-gun fire, he's hit exactly once, and has time for a graceful, slow-motion Jesus fall complete with moaning choristers, even though there was no reason whatsoever for the Nazis to not keep shooting him until he was mush.)

    Some say Kirk Prime went out like a chump, but hey, at least he died saving an entire planet. Stein, OTOH, was one of those who gave zero f*cks about the citizens of Earth-X despite being Jewish himself. If the writers had to give him his mortal wound in that scene, the least they could have done was written him doing something heroic on the part of the local Resistance, rather than an ordinary, dull effort to preserve the team of regulars we knew would make it out alive.
     
  11. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Upset tummy, obviously. :D
     
  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Same here.

    It was anticlimactic, as it was clear there's no emotional investment in the characters' fight, none of the non-super powered characters ever face any real danger (and seem to have the ability to dodge gunfire), and as with all Berlanti series, the stuntwork was questionable, especially the tiresome Supergirl vs evil opposite fight.

    Agreed. The only worthy relationship was the one which brought the characters together--Barry & Iris. After that, no one cares about the neverending moaning from Alex, or the sniping between Felicity and Oliver. At least Kara's Mon-El whine-a-thon was limited to a couple of lines.

    Apt comparison. Aside from the cartoonish misuse of the Nazi planet framework, the central threat was never front and center; the main focus was SG-X and her need for Kara's heart, which kicked the Nazi goals (thin as they were) to the background dumpster of Late Night Twirling Moustache Theatre.

    ...and if the showrunners knew anything about the real world Nazi's treatment of soldiers / dangerous prisoners, then Team Arrow would have been given the Fritz Knochlein (SS commander) treatment not long after their arrival. Ahh, but the Twirling Moustache Gang had to be stupid enough to make speeches and allow enough time for a badly written, utterly improbable escape.

    Yep--it was all self-centered BS, with Alex and her Kara obsession illustrating just how unethical she is in not showing an ounce of concern for the suffering resistance and the abused citizens. But hey, the running "sisterhood" theme was more important that the fate of a world. ;

    Well observed, but the non-"only chance to get home" part will continue to be ignored.

    Oh, yes. This is why Nick Fury was not directly involved in the New York battle of The Avengers; why would he need to be involved when you have the most powerful people on earth involved? Well, in Berlanti-land, there's a reason.


    Its overused, in cartoons, live action, comics...everywhere. When a visual once served a story is abused in this manner, it eventually loses all impact and becomes a gimmick.


    Well, we can disagree there, because their relationship is the most natural, non-Teen Nick union of all Berlanti shows.

    That's true.


    As I pointed out in the Supergirl thread, fantasy Nazi stories rarely work, and in this case, it was borderline offensive to victims of the Nazis, in that this fantasy trivialized the top priorities of the party to make commentary of greatest concern to the showrunners--and it was not the Nazi's obsession with racial hatred. But this would not be the first time a Berlanti show either kicked the historic horror of racism to the curb, or tried to make a false equivalency with other matters.

    Agree with the grade, and the takeaway was that the showrunners are not capable of producing a large, layered superhero team-up story.
     
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  13. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Gaith had mentioned something else that bothered me, but I had forgotten about. The Earth-1 team was pretty selfish when it came to getting back home. The whole Alex speech to Winn and General Winn actually going along with it, even for a little while, makes little sense. It was a tone deaf moment for the heroes, who didn't promise to come back. Heck, Kara alone could've went to Earth-X and just taken out the whole Nazi army, or did major damage to it at least, giving the Freedom Fighters more of a chance. Perhaps Winn would have been more open to a promise to come back with Supergirl or other heroes once the Earth-1 people were home. And the idea that the portal was the only way home wasn't true either. I forgot about Cisco. Granted, Cisco was unconscious during most of the action and perhaps the team was taking that into consideration, but there was also Gypsy out there somewhere. And the Legends. They can manipulate time, but I don't know if they do dimension hopping. Would it be that much of a stretch if they did?

    A couple other things that didn't make sense or needed more explanation. The Ray being from Earth-1. I wish they had explained how he got to Earth-X (I'm guessing that this will be explained in his cartoon series, but if weren't aware of that or had no intention of watching it, or maybe can't access CWSeed, then you're out of luck. They needed to explain it within the crossover). And why is Citizen Cold staying on Earth-1? Cold and Ray either are in a relationship or have deep feelings for each other and the fight against the Nazis to free Earth-X is not over, so why would Cold (more honorable than the Earth-1 Cold) decide to stay on Earth-1? Perhaps that will be explained on a future Legends or Flash episode, but I wish they had just brought him on a few episodes later to either one of those shows instead of having him stay behind at the end of this crossover. It didn't feel right for the character they had just established.
     
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  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Diggle was recovering from his injuries in the previous episode. I assume that's why he couldn't make it, although he seemed okay at the end. Maybe he had a physical therapy appointment he couldn't get out of that day.
     
  15. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hard to invite a guy who's child the groom killed.
     
  16. Star Wolf

    Star Wolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That certainly is a lot for a reason in a crossover that attracts a casual viewer like me.
    Well that makes sense, but he seemed to offer forgiveness
     
  17. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In fact one of Team Arrow claimed Diggle was home recovering to explain his absence from the fighting.

    I think it's strange that posters are castigating our guys from Earth 1 for wanting to go home NOW and not wanting to stick around longer to help Earth X'ers battle their Nazi overlords. Strange because the weapon General Schott was so keen on destroying wasn't a weapon in the classic sense, used to enslave their people. It was a gateway to other worlds, one Schott planned to use to strand Overgirl, The Reverse Flash and Dark Arrow ON Earth 1!

    General Wynn didn't seem too concerned that the three people who could themselves alone recreate Earth X on Earth 1 would have free reign on a new Earth, just as long as they were off his Earth.

    As for Alex whining about Kara through the 4 night event, one story I will always remember about the battle on Iwo Jima was about a young man who evaded his sick bay bed to rejoin his platoon for the assault upon the beach. He did it not for Glory or God or Country, he did it for those men he considered his brothers. Their safety was personal to him and he refused to stay behind when they were in peril.

    Say what you want about Alex, but since season 1 of Supergirl, Kara has always been Alex's top priority.



    Always.
     
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  18. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This week's Flash can put to rest the argument about just how happy Iris was about the double wedding ;)
     
  19. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Oh my God this scene from the first The Flash / Supergirl crossover in retrospect..... :lol:

     
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  20. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Clearly they are capable based on all the positive posts in this thread.