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DC statehood referendum passes

The problem with that is that the residential areas blends with the federal buildings areas. There are also federal buildings scattered throughout the city away from Pennsylvania Avenue, The Hill and Captiol South metro station area...


I'd know. I spent many Saturdays wandering around the city back in my undergrad days :lol:
Eh, you'd have a couple of Federal buildings scattered in the "state", but a majority of the buildings are on Capitol Hill, Fed Center (SW), Fed Triangle, and between the White House and Kennedy Center (NW Triangle, a name never used). There aren't any enclaves of residential buildings in these areas that couldn't be connect to the state of DC, and no Federal buildings can have residences.

And it's not a Constitutional issue. The only stipulation is that the Congress has authority "over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square)". A smaller District wouldn't violate this clause. This just means any district holding the seat of government can't be any larger than DC originally was.

You'd have to repeal the 23rd Amendment though, as that would give three electors to this unpopulated rump-District though.
 
Eh, you'd have a couple of Federal buildings scattered in the "state", but a majority of the buildings are on Capitol Hill, Fed Center (SW), Fed Triangle, and between the White House and Kennedy Center (NW Triangle, a name never used).
Probably want to include the foreign embassies inside the federal district.

I believe that the White House has three live in butlers, there could be some kind of special rule where they could maintain PO boxes outside the district as their "official residences." Make it a condition of employment that they have a outside official residence.

A rule that the President and Vice President also have a outside residence, my understanding is VP Biden rarely uses the house at the Naval Observatory.
 
Foreign embassies are foreign soil anyway. No need to include them.

Most VPs use the Observatory as their full time residence. Biden has close ties with Delaware which isnt all that far away.
 
Foreign embassies are foreign soil anyway.

Just want to address this statement, as it is a common misconception. Foreign embassies are not foreign soil. The land its on remain the territory of the host state, but international rules prevents representatives of the host country to enter an embassy without permission.

I don't have a good knowledge about DC or the question whether it should be a state or not, so won't comment on that.
 
Touche.

It still really wouldn't matter if it's in DC or the "state" of DC then, would it? If the rules of the host nation don't really apply it doesn't matter if the stretch of Mass Ave (and assorted dots of property around NW DC) are in one or the other jurisdiction. You can't tax them nor enforce your laws (to a degree), what's the point?
 
Yeah, there's really no need to keep embassies within some District enclave located within the territory of a larger hypothetical state.
 
Washington DC doesn't deserve to be a state, because it lacks the capacities of a state.

1) Can't realistically have a National Guard

Honestly, where is it going to train, the Capitol Mall?

States have to provide a militia, providing a fully fledged national guard capacity isn't the same as having a few token national guard units.

2) Washington DC's governor would have the ability to deploy troops to put down riots, to declare martial law, to arrest with state police independent of Capitol Police (they are federal). I'm sure the White House will love having to scramble together a couple of ceremonial dressed marines and on-duty snipers on the rooftop of the white house to link up with the Congressional Sargent at Arms to rapidly confront whatever hairbrained scheme the local governor suddenly absolutely feels he has to confront in some minor protest. Capitol police deal with both Arachists protesting and Jay Walking, they have been doing it for some time, can enter and exit federal buildings without tension- cause they aren't elected, and are answerable to Congress. You suddenly make them locably accountable, under a local government, they won't pursue people very far, cause they will point out they don't have jurisdiction over half of DC. I dare a Independent Statehool DC cop to chase someone up and into the capitol building or supreme court. Naturally the guards will be responsive initially, but the defendant's lawyer won't make that easy at all, and I doubt a jurisdictional turf war can easily be solved.

2) DC's economy is almost singularly driven by US Taxes. The US economy is almost singularly harmed by federal taxation- see the Austrian School of Economics.

If you have a state economy singularly based of of leeching economically from the side effect of funding for jobs it has no control over (federal jobs), it is gonna kick and scream every time a reformer like Reagan or Trump comes in, saying he is moving back to smaller government. It's singularly is going to be absolutely fixated on a ever more expensive government bloat, while simultaneously demanding more land.... needs more land, and the federal government needs to give up more space and become more nimble.... but never at the expense of jobs or budget cuts.

So no, DC, like Berlin, is a artificial city, it didn't arise like most cities do from organic evolution, but because larger federated powers decided a political city needed to be there. Move Germany's capitol, Berlin slowly dies. Other city states in Germany evolved organically, as actual city states. Moscow grew organically, London did so twice on prime location. DC.... just happened to be on George Washington's lands, kinda central to the US at the time, not at all now. You move the capital away, DC has no reason to exist. It will turn into a small Maryland township fast.

3) We have bigger cities elsewhere. Population doesn't make you a state, a small town like mine in West Virginia is all you need for statehood. You need enough population to have a effective government, one able to build government structures through taxation, to maintain reliable courts, able to handle federal commands, police the byways and highways with a armed force of some type, host federal bases and facilities, have a economy, handle health problems, have educational facilities.

Alot, but small 19th century communities could handle that. They could govern a large expanse, deal with national disasters largely on their own. When a president flies overhead looking at a national disaster, what is he doing? He isn't laughing at all the people on rooftops in floods, or burning in flames. He is deciding if a release of federal funds is warranted to the state, if he should pay for the state's national guard or if the state should foot the bill.

Last thing a president needs is to look at some stupid local idiot who doesn't really have a national guard or police force to speak of, completely dependent on federal aid.... and say "If I release $150 million to you, can you fix this? ". Answer is no, absolutely not in DC's case. DC will just burn, or flood, or zombies will run the streets. President will just have to declare martial law, tell both the Governor and Mayor to shut up and stay put in office, and let the Federal Government do it's job.

DC isn't independent or spacial enough to have a effective 3 Tiers of Government approach. It is a purely Federal City, completely sucking the tit of the American People. Sticking a extra Tier in there just so they can call themselves a state is absurd.

4) Mega Cities like New York, Chicago- they deserve to be a state more. What do we do when Miami demands statehood, then floods in 30 years underwater? You can loose a city and still have a state, but you can't loose a state and still have a logic of a state centric union. Historically, cities die off. Happens. We be left with a bunch of Rotten Boroughs like the UK Parliament had. Some villages turn to cities, while other cities turn into Hamlets- very hard to downgrade such recognition if the balance of power politically is always razor thin.... the Democratic Party is dying off as a national party now, becoming regional, but that doesn't mean another third party coalition group won't regularly ally with them. It will be absurdly hard to get rid of Republican or Democratic cities over the next few hundred years if they all start claiming statehood cause they are big. Detroit was a lot bigger once. In two hundred years, it could be woodlands with a village, if 3-D printers smash it's economy.... but that village will still be appointing two state senators, to everyone's massive annoyance. Why, politics.

5) States can be forced to give up lands in the courts. Border disputes happen, especially along rivers. My town is a notorious case of Congress instructing Virginia and Pennsylvania to figure out the western border issue. My town, Weirton, in West Virginia is three miles wide, as is my state here, but oncevwas part of Yogohanie/ West Augusta counties, took up a massive chunk of western PA. We once had Pittsburgh as part of our state.

That forced treaty took most of western pa from us, and left us with a absurdly small sliver of north to south land. For the longest time, a big chunk of the south existed north of the Mason Dixon line, but today, just a absurdly small area. I live about a hour and a half drive north, and can walk from the South to the Midwest (Ohio) or North East (Pa) in a few hours on foot.

In the case of West Virginia, Congress didn't split it from virginia. The government of Virginia, based in Wheeling, Virginia (now West Virginia) did that. It was kind enough to voluntarily ceed the western counties. Not our fault if the eastern portion of the state didn't send it's representatives to the legitimate state capitol. They were perfectly welcome to show up and stay. It was purely a matter of the State of Virginia, and Congress conceded to the plan, voting on statehood.

DC did used to have more land in Virginia, but getting it back doesn't solve it's area problems, as that largely is federal as well.

Basically, DC has no business being a state, no more than any other city in the US does. City States in Europe or ancient world doesn't fit the US mold, of three Tiers of government. DC economy is federally funded, or service based. It isn't a industrial juggernaut. It's economy goes off the whims of each administration, on the willingness of the federal government to invest in it. Statehood presumes this will continue. This is a absurd assumption in a era of cyberspace and AIs. A lot of traditional jobs are in decline. Lawyers and accounting might not be around as much in 50 years, the IRS might be a computer the size of a PC by then crunching numbers.

We would gave the nasty situation of a stare completely cut off from tourist taxes (all that is federal, like the Smithsonian, Botanical Gardens), Democrats crying they need jobs, rest of the country shrugging shoulders, saying to move.

Honestly, extremely bad idea. Just give them one representative vote in the house, for representation over taxation (taxes not originating in the House, such as Obamacare, is unconstitutional in regards to the Origination Clause), no senators. All they deserve. They can't realistically pull off statehood in a meaningful way like Peurto Rico can. That island have territory. It can and does provide a noticeable national guard. I've seen those units. America Samoa even. DC is a joke. Population doesn't make you a state, having the capacity to be a independent state, having your act together, does.
 
So no, DC, like Berlin, is a artificial city, it didn't arise like most cities do from organic evolution, but because larger federated powers decided a political city needed to be there. Move Germany's capitol, Berlin slowly dies. Other city states in Germany evolved organically, as actual city states.
Berlin's been around for Centuries. And is an economic and cultural center of Germany. It's also the largest city. More like New York than DC.
 
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Washington DC doesn't deserve to be a state, because it lacks the capacities of a state.

1) Can't realistically have a National Guard

The District of Columbia already has a District of Columbia National Guard. It comprises both Army National Guard and Air National Guard components.

Honestly, where is it going to train, the Capitol Mall?

The District of Columbia National Guard is headquartered at the D.C. Armory.

States have to provide a militia, providing a fully fledged national guard capacity isn't the same as having a few token national guard units.

So are you arguing that the states that have fewer residents than D.C. do not have real National Guard units?

Washington DC's governor would have the ability to deploy troops to put down riots, to declare martial law, to arrest with state police independent of Capitol Police (they are federal). I'm sure the White House will love having to scramble together a couple of ceremonial dressed marines and on-duty snipers on the rooftop of the white house to link up with the Congressional Sargent at Arms to rapidly confront whatever hairbrained scheme the local governor suddenly absolutely feels he has to confront in some minor protest.

This is yet more absurdity.

Capitol police deal with both Arachists protesting and Jay Walking, they have been doing it for some time, can enter and exit federal buildings without tension- cause they aren't elected, and are answerable to Congress. You suddenly make them locably accountable, under a local government, they won't pursue people very far, cause they will point out they don't have jurisdiction over half of DC.

The United States Capitol Police, answerable to Congress, are already more than capable of cooperating with the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia (answerable to the locally-elected Council of the District of Columbia and Mayor of the District of Columbia).

I dare a Independent Statehool DC cop to chase someone up and into the capitol building or supreme court. Naturally the guards will be responsive initially, but the defendant's lawyer won't make that easy at all, and I doubt a jurisdictional turf war can easily be solved.

Well, first off, your scenario is pretty improbable, 'cos it's hard to get inside the Capitol Complex if the United States Capitol Police don't want you to -- particularly if you are running from a Metro D.C. police officer.

Secondly, I have no idea what makes you think it would be any more jurisdictionally difficult than it already is when USCP and MPD interact.

2) DC's economy is almost singularly driven by US Taxes.

*yawns* So what? That has nothing to do with the natural rights of D.C. residents being violated by the current situation.

DC.... just happened to be on George Washington's lands,

A severe over-simplification of the historical facts.

The general area of what became the District of Columbia was famously selected over dinner at a meeting by Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison; they hashed out an agreement to support Hamilton's proposal that the federal government assume states' debts in return for the capital city being built near Virginia. Maryland and Virginia each passed acts of their legislatures allowing them to cede land to the federal government, and Congress passed the Residence Act, which said that the district would be located on the "river Potomack, at some place between the mouths of the Eastern-Branch [Anacostia River] and Connogochegue." Washington selected the exact location of the federal district, and wished to incorporate the town of Alexandria in it. It is true that Washington and his family owned some land in and around Alexandria (and that Congress forbade the building of public buildings on the Virginia side of the Potomac), but he wasn't the one who picked the general area.

You move the capital away, DC has no reason to exist. It will turn into a small Maryland township fast.

Spoken like someone who does not live anywhere near the District of Columbia. It's a company town, sure, but its economy has been diversifying for decades, and its population is higher than that of two entire states. Washington would still be around if the entire federal government moved to Topeka. :)

We have bigger cities elsewhere. Population doesn't make you a state, a small town like mine in West Virginia is all you need for statehood. You need enough population to have a effective government, one able to build government structures through taxation, to maintain reliable courts, able to handle federal commands, police the byways and highways with a armed force of some type, host federal bases and facilities, have a economy, handle health problems, have educational facilities.

All things the District of Columbia is more than capable of doing, especially since it has more people than two states.

Last thing a president needs is to look at some stupid local idiot who doesn't really have a national guard or police force to speak of, completely dependent on federal aid.... and say "If I release $150 million to you, can you fix this? ". Answer is no, absolutely not in DC's case. DC will just burn, or flood, or zombies will run the streets.

:cardie::cardie::cardie::cardie::cardie:

I beg your pardon, but on what possible basis do you imagine that the people of the District of Columbia are any less capable of self-government and mature behavior than the people of any state in the Union?

the Democratic Party is dying off as a national party now, becoming regional,

People said the same thing about the Republican Party in 2008. Don't get to celebrating your victories prematurely, boy.
 
The US economy is almost singularly harmed by federal taxation- see the Austrian School of Economics.

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Berlin's been around for Centuries. And is an economic and cultural center of Germany. It's also the largest city. More like New York than DC.

I do sometimes wonder how history would have turned out if New York City had stayed the capital instead of it moving south.
 
People said the same thing about the Republican Party in 2008. Don't get to celebrating your victories prematurely, boy.

Just to add, Last I checked at the last Presidential elections more people voted for the Democratic Party than the GOP party candidate.

And looking back at US Elections on those occasions where the winning Presidential Candidate lost the Popular vote it has more often or not been the GOP candidate that won the EC but lost the popular vote. So evidence does seem to indicate that the US leans slightlty more Liberal than some might think or believe. You might not see that where you live because where you live leans more towards the opposite on the political spectrum.
 
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Last election, more Americans rejected voting for Hillary actually. US decidedly leans away from Hillary.

America Samoa, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico have a national guard too, but they actually have that tier of extra government required to someday become a state.

Washington DC us completely lacking in this. It needs to be able to have a fully fledged state militia (America Samoa can't pull this off, despite having some great troops).

Since this is a Trek Site, it be like having a requirement any planet joining and remaining a federation planet has to maintain 5 state of the art, frontline ships, and some asteroid who snuck in on bad argumenrs, decides to provide 5 Delta Flyers, saying each is a ship.

We don't expect territories, be they incorporated or unincorporated, to pull off a reasonable national guard. One capable of being deployed both internally in state, while elsewhere in another state (I've seen Nevada National Guard deployed to NTC at Fort Irwin for 9 months to train other units) while also deploying oversea- all the while maintaining aircraft, tanks, APCs. water treatment units, medical facilities, search and rescue teams, helicopters.... fully fledged bases.

My state of West Virginia maintains one of only two Airborne Infantry national guard units in the country, and they happen to be special forces.

You can look at Europe and see exceptionally strong & rich states like Luxembourg get creative in specialized niches, but it needs to be pointed out Luxembourg isn't a US state.... it wouldn't meet a lot of our expectations for being a state, but I would accept it as a state long before DC, because :

1) It funds itself- evidence it is mature and self capable, not a compete mooch. States need to be fairly independent financially before being given the ability to plan its own government expenditures. Luxembourg can do that, DC is a joke. Why? Cause Luxembourg exist for its own damn sake, isn't a artificial political entity like DC, or Berlin. If it didn't learn to keep it's shit together a long time ago, others would of moved in and killed them. It doesn't beg, it doesn't ask, it simply is.

2) People tried to conquer Luxembourg a lot in the past. Its is the most fortified city-state in history. Seriously, they have some impressive fortifications. They've never not taken their defense seriously, save wisely during WW2 (Hitler would of steamrolled any threat out of them). To this day, they remain fair military innovators, for a small size, they focus on realistic military technologies that will push their puny military into the frontlines of any EU/NATO war. That's qualitatively a lot more than I can say for many countries in Europe. DC would have to do much more than Luxembourg here. When I was in Airborne School, my first jumps was from North Dakota National Guard planes, C-130s.

North Dakota deploys its troops overseas, guards its troops. Alaska, Battle of Both land, where I was deployed, had most of the national guard and army deployed, still maintained a strong instate presence in troops to guard a incredibly large territory. It guarded the Russian and Arctic boarders (in places, Russia has massive forces deployed right off US communities/in the pacific ocean), as well as the pipeline. It contributes guards to Kodiak Island Missle command, Marine Arctic scouts (yep, those actually exist, was surprised too) and a airforce. It can host higher echelon commands too, which eat up personnel.

DC can't do that. Virgin Islands can't, America Samoa can't. Puerto Rico comes the closest, America Samoa next. DC dead last.... well, no, might beat the virgin islands and a few pacific possessions we still have.

Not deserving whatsoever, of the title of a state. If Prince Edwards Island, in Canada, joined the union as a state (never gonna happen, too damn small, can't believe Canada puts up with them) it has a better chance if providing that middle tier.

1) Prince Edwards has a economy.... based on potatoes.... but that's still a independent source of wealth. Idaho does that too. If the US government cut funding to reduce bloat, reducing the size of government to 1/5, and the 51st state, Prince Edwards Island cried "Noooooo!" the rest of the union would just tell them to be quiet and grow some stupid potatoes. They as a state are expected to be independently capable of producing wealth beyond merely servicing the federal government with restaurants, hotels, and liqour stores.

2) Prince Edwards Island can host a reasonable national guard, at least one base. True, a high school football team can conquer that island if it wanted to, but it can potentially host that capacity. DC can't, its already filled with stuff. If in a national emergency, president called Hus 51 state governors up for a mass meeting, to coordinate, the DC Governor wouldn't be on the phone, he be sitting next to the president..... cause it be a complete waste of space to have a separate governors office in DC, and seperare homeland security office for them. What can the governor do or say in regards to DC that the President can't already instantly know just looking out the window or asking the guy one room over who was just down the street in the CIA? Absolutely no point, completely pointless and redundant. However, makes sense to ask the governor of distant Prince Edwards Island what the situation is, what his needs are, can he supply troops or personnel here or there. DC would have to piggyback 95% off the regular military. No point asking them.

3) Its a joke of a puny city. It legally can't have buildings above 3 stories high. That's why the Washington Monument seems so big. Its why the areas outside DC lean so very heavily Democrat, its because white collar workers running the government bloat programs can't even find housing in the city. Has a massive homeless problem.... If the weather is below freezing, they are required by law to put people in hotels- they legally can't put them in auditoriums or gyms, they tried it, Judge said no. They literally ran out of space, and gotta figure out how to make more homeless hotels for wintertime, when the general trend has been government buildings are expanding in new locations in DC.

His the hell are you gonna build a economic, independent commonwealth out of a increasingly homeless population pinned in between 3 story buildings, the inability to find shelter in winter despite it being the law, and a upper-upper class population living in the mansions, moving in and out every administration?

You can't. Period.

I don't mind giving individuals voting rights for the state of Maryland or Virginia (they might) but no, under no circumstance are they remotely deserving of statehood. Luxembourg comes a hell of alot closer, and I would still say no to them.

DC is the biggest joke we have in America. It has two stripclubs, no nudity, side by side with a whore house between. I'm not joking. That's the local culture. Everything else is federal oriented. Not a whole bunch to build a actual economy off of. The statistics for economy in DC looks grand until you minus the federal governments impact, then suddenly Baltimore looks the superstar.

I would sooner give statehood to Greenland than DC. I wouldn't give it to the Faukland Islands if they tried to join the US cause a couple of Sheep Farms and a sandwich shop with special stamp sales isn't enough to convince me they can be ever become militarily self sufficient. They are a massive money drain.

Hong Kong is borderline. Like I said, population doesn't count for shit, its the ability of a state to be self sufficient.

It isn't quite Luxembourg in that it exists today by its own right to exist. It was created by the British, just like Beijing was forced to exist by the Ming (same for DC, or Berlin, if government stopped propping it up, it would die off).

But in Hong Kong's case, its a economic powerhouse. For how long? I don't know, no real reason Hong Kong as opposed to say, Dalian or Macau a century from now.... but its China's version of Alexandria, Egypt.

Is it remotely self sufficient in food? Nope. Neither is Hawaii, both can starve in a matter of days in a blockade. Hawaii can resist, excellent Navy, deep Pacific grid and US Navy.

How long could Hong Kong last on shipments alone? Would anyone ship to a peninsula off China blockaded by China, even if it coincudently part of the US? Unlikely.

So self sufficiency, dead. Its unrealistic. DC can't grow crap either, but if some powerful state blockaded the river, I'm 100% confident the US could get food in with ease. DC has that slight advantage over Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is already absurdly urbanized. It long ago stopped worrying about three story high buildings. It can expand into the water, and has in the past, so if the US wanted some large bases, they can point at some shallow water, offer joint development of development. DC can't. If DC tries to dam the river to build in it, DC floods. Maybe build over it and concrete it.

Can Hong Kong provide a excellent National Guard? Yes- Light Infantry enough to hold the city for days, and a excellent navy. Airforce? What's the point. That hurts them, cause they be our weak point for our western states, Alaska can fly to Guam, then Australia in under a day. Hong Kong craft would just get shot down upon takeoff, if Artillery doesn't take them out first.

Can Kong Kong self govern, that middle tier of government? More so than DC ever could. Beijing doesn't think so much, but Hong Kong doesn't appear incompetent either. A emergency call to Hong Kong from the president makes sense because the President isn't in Hong Kong. If he needs to know the deal in DC, he merely needs to look out the window.

I'm more willing to take a place like Hong Kong in someday in the future if they ever become a state. A hamlet like Monaco or Gibralter no, but both would deserve it more for a history of self governance and being distant. Neither can realistically defend itself, despite the proud military history of Monaco's French serving princes, or Gibralter's British naval history. UK doesn't mind having half assed joke territories around, surprised any stayed around after the collapse of the British Empire. In the US' case, we built our system with a lot more integrity. We very carefully crafted our system from experiencing several earlier moves to confederating parts of the North American continent in the colonial era, bad EU like experiences with the Articles of Confederation. We had a excellent grasp on the principles of Classical and Renaissance Statecraft, studied the English Civil war and Dutch Invasion/Glorious Revolution in imcredible detail- we did not stumble blindly nor with idiocy in developing our system, save in one area, slavery. Outside of that system, we built a fairly stable system. Why the US government is one of the oldest continuing governments in the world today, most other nations since 1776 have fallen multiple times. France has had 7 governments, soon 8. Germany exploded a few times, same for China. South America completely morphed.

We lasted cause we didn't design our politics off if short sighted pot smoke, liberal arguments. We carefully weighed everything and created a damn system that's resilient and worked. We don't give cities statehood. We didn't build a political system where a political machine in a few cities ran by some demogague tyrant could crush the rest of the country. We didn't create a patchwork of little pussyfied useless city states full of self aggrandizing, no nothing idiots.

Statehood is NOT a natural right. Its a duty and responsibility, not based on the concept of Auctoritas but rather Res Publica.
Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auctoritas
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_publica

I don't mean the Renaissance concept of a republic, but the classical idea of a society being able to govern itself independently. The US had a delicate mixture, we aren't based off of independent Polis, or virtual democracy, but rather the autonomy, self governance, and mutual duty and reliability of each state to provide aid and relief, and competently recieve and use it efficiently.

In a great sense, we have that ethical topography discussed in Arius Didymus' Stoic Ethics (taken from Plato's Timeas). We can look at a work like Petronius' Satyricon (if you in DC, go to the Rose room of the Library of Congress, ask to look at one of Thomas Jefferson's copies, he owned four editions) and realize a society must he large and sufficiently diverse, holding multiple yet contradicting beliefs in order to be vibrant, open, and fair. That's what lies at the heart of tolerance and secularism, concepts we borrowed from the Dutch Republic.

Outside of the politicians and lobbyists moving in and out, DC is a one party monoculture. It lacks new ideas. It is mentally slothful and backwards. If it was brimming with new ideas, local elections would have different parties winning each year. They have nothing going for them. They don't have the rural vs city debates to balance their economy and laws, liberal Illinois does, California dies, New York does. DC lacks a check. Hence it is intellectually dead on the social level. You walk down the street, only people pushing ideas are for national concerns. You want a local issue, you gotta go to the homeless guy in La Fayette park selling the local homeless news paper. DC as far as local society goes is dead. Don't point to Soggy Bottom, that's purely national. Those people aren't DC natives. Your DC locals are flipping burgers. You can't build a state out of that sort of dependency and decay. You need both love and strife, in a expansive territory- one bigger than a mere city, to make a dynamic population deserving of statehood.

You gotta earn statehood. You gotta gave your act together for it. You can't just go Cross-eyed and say your so liberal, and really really want it, and everyone is bring unfair. No- what is unfair is forcing 50 states to accept a idiot city with no real independent capacity to do anything on its own, as a equal. That's deeply embarrassing. Once you come into the union as a state, you stay in the union. 500 years from now, still a damn state. 2,000 years, still a state. US is playing for long terms stakes, we have no intention like most other societies of collapsing into one idiot liberal revolution after another, or of being conquered. We fully intend to outlast everyone else, and have mostly done so as to date. We are not France, we continue on, because we are the damn motherfucking energizer bunny of nationstates. We can only do this by avoiding all the stupid shit. DC will never be a state, cause it isn't cut out to be one. Its a joke. Not worthy of consideration. If you want representation for taxation, move 10 miles over. I know your not from a family that came from DC prior to it becoming a capitol. We all had ancestors who knew what the deal was, and nobody is keeping you there.
 
Ramble ramble ramble.

I'll respond to your argument bit by bit later. But for the record, the United States Constitution's requirements for statehood are as follows:

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

That's it. Nothing about having to raise a national guard -- though D.C. has a national guard. Nothing about what kind of economy it's supposed to have (as though New York's economy wasn't all about wealth moving from other states to it?). Just the will and consent of the governed.
 
[QUOTE="Plutodawn, post: 11936603, member: 73858"

You gotta earn statehood. You gotta gave your act together for it. You can't just go Cross-eyed and say your so liberal, and really really want it, and everyone is bring unfair. No- what is unfair is forcing 50 states to accept a idiot city with no real independent capacity to do anything on its own, as a equal. That's deeply embarrassing. Once you come into the union as a state, you stay in the union. 500 years from now, still a damn state. 2,000 years, still a state. US is playing for long terms stakes, we have no intention like most other societies of collapsing into one idiot liberal revolution after another, or of being conquered. We fully intend to outlast everyone else, and have mostly done so as to date. We are not France, we continue on, because we are the damn motherfucking energizer bunny of nationstates. We can only do this by avoiding all the stupid shit. DC will never be a state, cause it isn't cut out to be one. Its a joke. Not worthy of consideration. If you want representation for taxation, move 10 miles over. I know your not from a family that came from DC prior to it becoming a capitol. We all had ancestors who knew what the deal was, and nobody is keeping you there.[/QUOTE]

Wow! I'm debating whether to send the link to this screed to my friends who live in DC.
 
No what is unfair is that residents of DC have no voting representation in Congress. And saying move to get representation isn't really an answer remeber part of why the US rebelled in the first place was over taxation. How about instead of moving they don't have to pay federal tax until they get equal representation.

And amongest the current US states are all finacally independant or are some states net contributors to the Federal budget. i.e they pay in more than they recieve back. Now I might be wrong but isn't it largely the Blue states which pay in more than they get back and the Red sates which pay in less than they get back?

As for it being a largely Democratic city so what if it is? I suspect they are many areas that are largely favour one party over the other. In many palces around the world.

As for states wanting to leave the USA, if that is the will of the people of that state why shouldn't they be allowed to leave?
 
DC isn't the one getting the worst treatment:
https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-11...s-cant-vote-president-because-where-they-live

The right is proably afraid of the diverse groups--and the left won't fight for them because they just might be..pro-military! Gasp.

So both sides let them down.

Same with civil engineers. The Left doesn't like levees for environmental reasons--and would rather fund social programs--and the Right wants taxes lowered but a big weapon contracts (vet's health? forgetaboutit).

Thus Katrina.

Same with space advocates. Both sides tell you "no"--just for different reasons
 
Just to add, Last I checked at the last Presidential elections more people voted for the Democratic Party than the GOP party candidate.
Too bad for the Democrat Party we don't elect president by popular vote. And we never have.

We learned that in elementary school, didn't we?.
 
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