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DC statehood referendum passes

Except for that little thing, that Constitutional thing, that would have to be dealt with first.

BRING it. :evil:

If you're so concerned as to why DC was ever a special district in the first place: Remember the "Pennsylvania Mutiny" of 1783. If that had never happened, DC would have been a state from the get-go. That is literally the only reason why we are having this discussion today.

If not for that damn mutiny, DC would have always been a state (or, more appropriately, there never would have been a DC in the first place), and we could get the fuck ON with it already.
 
The Vatician is a city State, so why can DC be a state of the USA.
You'd probably have a easier time making DC it's own nation/state than having it become a state in the union.
But all of that is absolutely justified by the simple fact that DC residents deserve a vote in Congress
But having DC become a state isn't the only way to accomplish this goal.

Also, DC doesn't just belong to the local residents, it belongs to the entire population of the United States.
 
But having DC become a state isn't the only way to accomplish this goal.

It's the easiest, and most efficient.

Also, DC doesn't just belong to the local residents, it belongs to the entire population of the United States.

Kick it down a notch, and you can say the exact same thing about a state capital belonging to the entire population of its state. Yet they manage, don't they?
 
What would be the benefit to the citizens of D.C. and to the country if it were to become a state?

For one thing, control of their own local tax dollars. Why should some Congressman from Utah get to decide what Washingtonians do with their money?

And do a majority of US citizens want their Capitol to be a state?

The United States Capitol will continue to be a federal building in Washington, no worries. ;)

As for what the majority of the country wants -- I don't give a fuck. It's not their decision to make.

We're not talking about some random piece of the United States, DC has a special existence.

So what? The people who actually live there matter more than other people's feelings.

Ottawa is merely part of a very large province.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Washington D.C. becomes a state, wouldn't it become a state consisting of one city and nothing else? :confused:

Works for Berlin.

Isn't pretending that becoming a state is the only way to accomplish that goal "doing a back flip?

Under the U.S.'s system of dual sovereignty, statehood is the only way to guarantee that the people of D.C. both get an equal voice in Congress, and get to control their own laws and tax money.

Retrocession would make the will of the people of D.C. subordinate to the will of the Maryland General Assembly. The current situation subordinates the will of the people of D.C. to the whims of Congress.

Becoming a new state is not the only way to achieve representation.Incorporating the non-governmental parts of DC into the two adjacent counties of Maryland would let them do just that.

That does not give them equal representation, it lumps them in with another state and dilutes their voice in Congress.

If people want their own state, they ought to get it. However, the name "New Columbia" lacks originality in my opinion. A unique state should have a unique name. How about naming it after the indigenous inhabitants: Nacotchtank (or anglicised: Anacostia) ? It translates as Trading Village and that would also fit its tradition as a seat of government organisations and and foreign embassies.

I personally favor calling the new state Douglass Commonwealth, after Frederick Douglass. Apparently the state constitution draft approved by the D.C. Council and put up for vote calls it the State of Washington, Douglass Commonwealth. I think that's an unreasonably complex name, but whatever.

But isn't the stated reason DC shouldn't become part of Maryland simply that the people of DC don't want to be part of Maryland?

Neither side wants retrocession. Marylanders and Washingtonians are two distinct political cultures and they do not want to be lumped in with one-another.

So if other people in the country simply don't want to be a part of the state they're already in, why shouldn't they too have the ability to form a separate state?

Because each state has dual sovereignty along with the federal union of which they are a part. By contrast, the District of Columbia does not have dual sovereignty, and its people aspire to such.

DC has a representative, just not a vote on the House floor. That rep is able to participate, and presumably vote, in committees, and lobby the entire House on behalf of DC.

D.C. has a Delegate to the House of Representatives, not a United States Representative. The ability of this Delegate to vote even in committee is subject to the whims of whichever party is in the majority; when Republicans are in the majority, the Delegate may not even vote in committee. So the Delegate's power is extremely limited -- it's a mostly-ceremonial position.

The district is represented by the whole of Congress.

Bull. Shit.

The cost of seating a governor and legislature would likely necessitate a huge increase in taxes, since the thirteen seat council headed by a mayor would probably no longer be sufficient to govern a new state.

The draft constitution approved by the Council of the District of Columbia establishes a Legislative Assembly consisting of 21 members: a Speaker of the Legislative Assembly elected on an at-large basis, 4 Representatives elected at-large, and 2 Representatives elected for each of the 8 legislative districts of the State of Washington, D.C. It also establishes the office of Governor of the State of Washington, D.C., and of the independent offices of Attorney General, Chief Financial Officer, the State Board of Education, and the Board of Elections.

Doesn't seem too awful to me, given that the New York City Council has 30 more members.

Taking the federal government out of the equation would probably mean the creation of new bureaucracies which would also need to be funded.

Not really. The draft constitution really just re-brands the existing District bureaucracy as "State of Washington, D.C. bureaucracy" rather than "District of Columbia bureaucracy." The federal bureaucracy doesn't really run D.C.

With a population of only about 900K, the demands would soon exceed the ability of the citizenry to pay.

I'm waiting for Vermont, Wyoming, Alaska, North Dakota, and South Dakota to collapse from this supposed inability of a state to function with less than 900,000 people.

Except for that little thing, that Constitutional thing, that would have to be dealt with first.

One thing that people these days forget, or ignore (and maybe in days past--I can't say because I wasn't alive then), is that our legislative process was designed to move slowly. A snail's pace, if said snail was on heavy medication. It's a system designed to move so slowly that changes brought up on a whim would be discussed and argued into oblivion.

It is not that people forget this. It is that it is a bad legislative system that no longer meets our nation's needs, and which ought to be changed.

The reason for DC's existence as separate from the states needs to be studied and understood, and knee-jerk demands set aside.

The residents of the District of Columbia have been second-place citizens for over two hundred years. Spare me the "knee-jerk" bullshit.

Also, DC doesn't just belong to the local residents, it belongs to the entire population of the United States.

Sorry, but Adams Morgan and Anacostia do not belong to some jerk in California or some asshole in Nebraska. They belong to the people who actually live there and who actually care about their community.

ETA:

Meanwhile, John Oliver shows why all arguments against D.C. statehood are bullshit.

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Except for that little thing, that Constitutional thing, that would have to be dealt with first.

The only Constitutional issue is the amendment that gives the District three Electoral votes. That would remain on the books if Congress accepted the District's Constitution and passed an enabling act to accept statehood. I'm not sure it would matter, honestly -- the statehood proposal turns the Federal Core (ie, the Capitol, the Mall, the White House) into much smaller federal district, and it would have no residents, and thus there would be no resident voters for there to be Electoral votes.
 
I'm not sure it would matter, honestly -- the statehood proposal turns the Federal Core (ie, the Capitol, the Mall, the White House) into much smaller federal district, and it would have no residents, and thus there would be no resident voters for there to be Electoral votes.
The White House has residents. If the Constitution weren't changed and this scenario (or retrocession, for that matter) occurred, wouldn't it essentially be handing the President's family 2-3 EVs, should they care to appoint any? Granted, a principled statesman like Obama might not take advantage of such a Constitutional quirk, but does any doubt Biff Trumpen would? He'd call his electoral votes a sacred buffer against the tyranny of fraudulent voting nationwide.

Neither side wants retrocession. Marylanders and Washingtonians are two distinct political cultures and they do not want to be lumped in with one-another.
1) California's Inland Empire is a pretty red-state area that isn't crazy about being lumped in with us coastal lefties, but they deal with it. Statehood very rarely, if ever, means only being associated with like-minded folks, so this is a bogus argument.
2) Many thousands of "Marylanders" live within miles of the the District's borders or a Metro station, commute and socialize into DC on a daily basis, and are temporary transplants who don't consider themselves authentic Marylanders, even if they technically sleep, pay taxes, and vote there, so the notion that Marylanders and Washingtonians are significantly different is, with regards to this population, laughable.

(We're only talking 68 square miles here. I hate Wyoming's Senate and Electoral College over-representation as much as the next guy, but at least in that case we're talking about a 97,818 square mile state.)
 
Except for that little thing, that Constitutional thing, that would have to be dealt with first.
It's almost like that's what they're aiming for with the referendum or something. Crazy idea, right?

The biggest argument for why they should be a state, or at least have voting positions in Congress is simple: "No taxation without representation." Either give them representation in Congress, or completely eliminate their taxes. One or the other.
 
The White House has residents. If the Constitution weren't changed and this scenario (or retrocession, for that matter) occurred, wouldn't it essentially be handing the President's family 2-3 EVs, should they care to appoint any?

I would have thought that the First Family would legally be considered residents of their home state who are temporarily domiciled in Washington, DC -- and thus for instance, I would have thought President Obama votes as an Illinois resident and receives both his representation in Congress and his representation in the Electoral College through Illinois. Can anybody confirm this? Does the sitting President usually vote as a Washington resident, or in their home state?

Of course, we're talking about some pretty fundamental constitutional re-arrangements here, so even if that's not currently the case, it can easily be made the law that the President and other White House residents are by law considered to still be residents of their home state who must receive their representation through that state rather than through the District of Columbia.

1) California's Inland Empire is a pretty red-state area that isn't crazy about being lumped in with us coastal lefties, but they deal with it. Statehood very rarely, if ever, means only being associated with like-minded folks, so this is a bogus argument.

Except the Inland Empire is already part of California. A better comparison would be New Yorkers and New Jerseyites.

2) Many thousands of "Marylanders" live within miles of the the District's borders or a Metro station, commute and socialize into DC on a daily basis, and are temporary transplants who don't consider themselves authentic Marylanders, even if they technically sleep, pay taxes, and vote there,

I would personally favor Arlington County, VA; Fairfax County, VA; Prince William County, VA; Loudon County, VA; Montgomery County, MD; and Prince George's County, MD all seceding from their respective states to join with the District of Columbia to form a new state called Douglass Commonwealth, encompassing most of the present-day Washington Metropolitan Area. Such a hypothetical state would, of course, therefore be larger than the District, and would have a population of something in the area of 4.7 million. For precisely that reason.

But that's even more pie-in-the-sky than the District itself having statehood.

so the notion that Marylanders and Washingtonians are significantly different is, with regards to this population, laughable.

No, it is not -- because you're forgetting that those Washingtonian Marylanders are rather a bit outnumbered by all the other Marylanders who do not feel any affinity to D.C. And they got statehood so they have the right to say, "Nope, you're not joining our club."

(We're only talking 68 square miles here. I hate Wyoming's Senate and Electoral College over-representation as much as the next guy, but at least in that case we're talking about a 97,818 square mile state.)

Why does physical size matter?
 
I would have thought that the First Family would legally be considered residents of their home state who are temporarily domiciled in Washington, DC -- and thus for instance, I would have thought President Obama votes as an Illinois resident and receives both his representation in Congress and his representation in the Electoral College through Illinois. Can anybody confirm this? Does the sitting President usually vote as a Washington resident, or in their home state?

You're correct -- Obama is officially an Illinois resident, and he voted in Illinois. Here's a relevant article, one that notes that no president has ever cast a vote in the District.

The enabling act that admits the District as a state and carved out a smaller federal district could/should make it clear that the federal district has no residents, that the President and his family occupy the White House but remain residents of their home state.
 
My opinion, for what it's worth: The residential areas of DC should be assigned to this state of "New Columbia"... but, the federal buildings, museums, and monuments of the National Mall area should remain Washington, DC, and separate.
The problem with that is that the residential areas blends with the federal buildings areas. There are also federal buildings scattered throughout the city away from Pennsylvania Avenue, The Hill and Captiol South metro station area...


I'd know. I spent many Saturdays wandering around the city back in my undergrad days :lol:
 
I get that, but it could be done by specific address - doesn't matter if the land on three sides of where you live is in DC, you're in "New Columbia". ;)
 
Marylanders and Washingtonians are two distinct political cultures and they do not want to be lumped in with one-another.
But isn't it common that states are composed of multiple "distinct political cultures?"

You not claiming that Maryland currently posses only a single distinct political culture, or that all the people in DC share just one?

Perhaps DC should instead become dozens of states, one for each "distinct political culture."
Except the Inland Empire is already part of California.
Wait a minute, they're ""distinct political cultures."
Meanwhile, John Oliver shows why all arguments against D.C. statehood are bullshit.
John Oliver is a professional comedian.
I would personally favor Arlington County, VA; Fairfax County, VA; Prince William County, VA; Loudon County, VA; Montgomery County, MD; and Prince George's County, MD all seceding from their respective states to join with the District of Columbia
Nicely collecting some of the wealthiest counties in the country into one state.

I'm sure Virginia and Maryland will enjoy the loss in tax revenue.
Nicely sums up the logic of DC becoming a state.
 
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Except the Inland Empire is already part of California. A better comparison would be New Yorkers and New Jerseyites.
The point stands - it simply doesn't scan to say that Washingtonians shouldn't be absorbed into Maryland because of minor regional differences for statehood purposes, when tons of actual states have much greater regional differences.

Why does physical size matter?
State lines have always been as much (if not more) about physical territory and resource control as they have population, so, given that DC is so small and lacking in natural resources, when you say that District residents deserve their own state due pretty much exclusively to the fact that they number more than Wyomingans do, you're redefining the whole concept of a United States state to suit your present purposes.

I'd like to see District residents get two Senators as much as the next liberal, but I can't honestly say that District statehood makes more sense than Maryland retrocession, because it quite simply doesn't.
 
I can't honestly say that District statehood makes more sense than Maryland retrocession, because it quite simply doesn't.

Tough shit. Retrocession is never going to happen (because Maryland doesn't want it and can't be forced to take it), so statehood is the only thing left

The problem with that is that the residential areas blends with the federal buildings areas. There are also federal buildings scattered throughout the city away from Pennsylvania Avenue, The Hill and Captiol South metro station area...

So make all of DC a state then. To blazes with this shit about federal buildings. Put them right in there with the rest of it. Problem solved.
 
Tough shit. Retrocession is never going to happen (because Maryland doesn't want it and can't be forced to take it), so statehood is the only thing left
That's a bit like saying "I'll never have telepathy powers, so I might as well settle for teleportation ones."

Maryland becoming Democratic/liberal enough to be willing to retrocess the District seems to me far more plausible than the District becoming a state.
 
State lines have always been as much (if not more) about physical territory and resource control as they have population, so, given that DC is so small and lacking in natural resources, when you say that District residents deserve their own state due pretty much exclusively to the fact that they number more than Wyomingans do,

Wyoming and Vermont, actually.

you're redefining the whole concept of a United States state to suit your present purposes.

So when are you going to argue that Delaware be annexed by Maryland? Should Rhode Island be annexed by Connecticut or by Massachusetts?

There has never been a physical size requirement for statehood.

John Oliver is a professional comedian.

That is not a counter-argument to any of the arguments he makes.

Sci said:
I would personally favor Arlington County, VA; Fairfax County, VA; Prince William County, VA; Loudon County, VA; Montgomery County, MD; and Prince George's County, MD all seceding from their respective states to join with the District of Columbia

Nicely collecting some of the wealthiest counties in the country into one state.

I'm sure Virginia and Maryland will enjoy the loss in tax revenue.

Okay -- I'll compromise by settling for District statehood by itself. :)

Maryland becoming Democratic/liberal enough to be willing to retrocess the District seems to me far more plausible than the District becoming a state.

Except it's really not, because neither side is going to consent to it.
 
So when are you going to argue that Delaware be annexed by Maryland? Should Rhode Island be annexed by Connecticut or by Massachusetts?
Both those states could probably stand to get annexed, yes. Hell, Thomas Jefferson believed the whole Constitution should be scrapped and rewritten once per generation:

"Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right."

- Thomas Jefferson​

Except it's really not, because neither side is going to consent to it.
This is the song that never ends... it just goes on and on, my friends... some people staaaaarted singing it, not knowing what it -
 
Both those states could probably stand to get annexed, yes.

Then I respect the consistency of your argument. But I gotta point out this does mean throwing out the concept of dual sovereignty for the states.

Side-note: You're basically turning Maryland into an annexation machine. Taking over the District, annexing Delaware... Can Maryland seize northern Virginia while we're at it? ;)
 
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