Affleck isn't back either. And I think it's safe assume neither is Miller. If The Flash was a succes, they would have asked them back. I think we all know it was far from a success.
DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Affleck isn't back either. And I think it's safe assume neither is Miller. If The Flash was a succes, they would have asked them back. I think we all know it was far from a success.
That much was true. The very reason I've always believed S3's Lana was a woman with natural chemistry with Clark, who understood that, as opposed to Lois with her fangirl-ish, obsession with Superman, which would be a most toxic foundation for a relationship.
He's as pure as Whole Milk served on a silvery cloud, so wiping a free individual's mind should be explained away as the right, heroic thing to do to another person.
If Gadot is the DCU as Wonder Woman...so much for the notion that the DCEU (read: anything connected to the Snyderverse) is dead and buried.
No stranger than Superman & Lois keeping Tyler Hoechlin, Bitsie Tulloch, David Ramsey, and Jenna Dewan but recasting other returning characters like Sam Lane, Morgan Edge, and Lex Luthor.
Besides, the Flashpoint excuse for the universe reboot lets them justify some things being the same while others change, like how post-Crisis or post-Flashpoint DC kept some of the storylines from earlier comics basically unchanged while restarting others from scratch.
Utter nonsense.
Show me in the movie where the Fortress is established as being over a chasm of any kind. You can't. My evidence that they slid down a crystal wall in the Fortress into a mist, is that we see them slide down the wall into a mist. Yours is the supposition without evidence, not mine. Show me anything in Donner's Superman movies that would indicate that he and Lois would kill for revenge. You can't. And to suggest that because publicity materials didn't say the villains weren't killed, that means they were? Specious logic that doesn't deserve a reply.
You can cling to your notion that Superman and Lois cheerfully killed the Zoners for revenge, that's totally your right. But what you can't do, is prove that they died because the text, tone, and subtext of the movie simply does not support your position.
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"Wonder Woman 3" does not exist anywhere outside of Gal Gadot's mind.
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-3-not-in-development-1235693545/
And frankly this should not come as a surprise to anyway with a modicum of common sense.
No surprise here: I imagine Gadot got a courtesy meeting, just like Cavill and Affleck, with general discussion about the possibility of sometime working together on something yet to be determined.
I wonder if Gadot is trying to motivate her fans to demand from WB/Gunn a new WW movie starring her...
I wonder if Gadot is trying to motivate her fans to demand from WB/Gunn a new WW movie starring her...
And now she's trying to pull a Rock and will the movie into existence. And we saw how well that went for Dwayne.
Show me interviews where the director, writer(s) and on screen evidence say Zod and his cronies were not killed falling down that chasm.
You will never be able to, because the film that was released 43 years ago had--as part of the final edit--Superman throw Zod down that chasm, while Lois punched Ursa into the same location, and none of the surviving characters on screen--not Superman, Lois or Luthor--said or gave any indication that the Kryptonians were still alive. None. You are desperate to see something in that scene that never existed, and that's entirely up to you, but the one time the Salkinds' Superman committed an act--a lethal act--that was as clear today as in 1980 (as intended in the final cut), in comes the tears and revisionist history sans a particle of evidence to support that position.
Again, cite the 1980 interviews with Lester, the Newmans, Puzo, or anyone else saying Zod and his cronies were not killed--and that their undeniable fate was not the intended point and message of the scene in the film released that year. Still waiting for that evidence, but I know it does not exist, otherwise it would have been posted, cited or linked on this board whenever the Superman II revisionist history supporters revisit the scene in question.
First of all, I don't have to prove a negative; you have asserted that Superman killed them by hurling them to their deaths in a chasm, and you can't even prove there was a chasm. The Fortress is well established as alien in nature and Superman clearly went there before the Zoners to prepare it for them. The walls aren't ice, they are alien crystal. We don't know what the mist is, other than it is of alien origin. We have no idea how deep it is. All of this is supported by the movie itself. If you imagine the scene as Superman and Lois killing the Zoners out of revenge, that is simply something you are bringing to the movie and not something supported by the text or tone of the movie.
Second, if you have an interview from any of the creatives stating categorically that the Zoners were killed then by all means present it. You can't, because there is no such interview. It's ridiculous for you to expect the creators to state "Superman didn't kill the Zoners" as evidence when the movie itself makes no claim he did. What does exist as evidence of authorial intent is a deleted scene of the powerless Zoners being taken away by the police.
Bottom line, the only revisionist history here is yours, and only you know if it is accompanied by tears.
Second, if you have an interview from any of the creatives stating categorically that the Zoners were killed then by all means present it. You can't, because there is no such interview. It's ridiculous for you to expect the creators to state "Superman didn't kill the Zoners" as evidence when the movie itself makes no claim he did. What does exist as evidence of authorial intent is a deleted scene of the powerless Zoners being taken away by the police.
Bottom line, the only revisionist history here is yours, and only you know if it is accompanied by tears.
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*Sigh*
Another case of false hope given to the actors but the big corporation really has no plans at all
First it was Cavill now it’s Gadot
What do you base that on? Neither of them was promised anything. Unless you count Dwayne tricking Cavill into thinking he would come back?
Did WB ever officially announce a new Superman movie or was it just Cavill who announced it?
Dwayne got paid.
And no indication they would keep Fisher either.
You are the one making the patently false claim that Superman (and lois) did not kill Zod and Ursa in Superman II. This is not supported by the 1980 release, yet you blathered on with this shaking need to say the Salkinds' Superman did not kill.
Instead of simply providing evidence that Lester, the Newmans, Puzo, et al., never intended Superman to kill Zod in an act of revenge, you insist--based on absolutely nothing---that Zod and Ursa were not sent to their deaths. You could have resolved the matter by supporting the claim you chose to argue with that frightening thing called evidence, but as stated earlier, you do not have evidence, since those responsible for making the film never said or implied the intended outcome seen in the theatrical release was not the message they wanted to send.
This "Superman does not kill" / "Superman was not getting revenge" fit of delusion is all yours, and in addition to trying to rewrite the meaning of the scene in question, you fail to understand that not only did Superman take his revenge on Zod, but this behavior was bolstered in the diner finale, where Clark used his powers in an act of revenge against ordinary human Rocky. That's your Superman. Revenge is part of his character, and he killed Zod.
You can continue to spin in Kleenex-soaking denial about this, but again, there's no evidence supporting what you want the film to say about Superman, not in 1980, and certainly not in 2023.
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No, but then, there's Gunn's own statements about the possibility of keeping some performers from the DCEU. This was the guy who was supposed to make a clean, final break from the DCEU, but as of this date, he's not emphatically stating that the DCU is an entirely new film series.
It never even occured to me for a fraction of a second that Superman and Lois killed the Kryptonians in Superman II until someone said they did on here.
It just goes some completely against everything we had seen from the characters before this, and is so completely off from the whole tone of the rest of the movies up to this point, that the whole idea just feels ridiculous to me. I had just assumed he left them trapped in some kind of basement or something. There is absolutely nothing in the movie to indicate that they died, and I'm pretty sure if that really had been the intent, they would have been a clearly indication that the fall would have been fatal.
It just goes some completely against everything we had seen from the characters before this, and is so completely off from the whole tone of the rest of the movies up to this point, that the whole idea just feels ridiculous to me. I had just assumed he left them trapped in some kind of basement or something. There is absolutely nothing in the movie to indicate that they died, and I'm pretty sure if that really had been the intent, they would have been a clearly indication that the fall would have been fatal.
Trek_God_1
The only blather here is coming from you, in your insistence on mistaking your opinion for fact and in your total lack of what constitutes a reasonable argument.
Let me state this in simpler terms: my evidence is that all we see is the Zoners disappearing into the mist in Superman's Alien Fortress. We don't see a chasm in any form. The only visual evidence is that they disappear into the mist. It is your extrapolation that they are killed in a fit of revenge by Superman and Lois. It is pure supposition that is not borne out in the actual images on the screen. It is not borne out in the performances of Reeve or Kidder. It is not borne out in the musical score. It is not borne out of authorial intent vis a vis the deleted scene. You have presented no evidence at all. The closest thing you have presented to an actual point is that Clark took revenge on the bully at the end, and even that is mitigated by the fact that the bully is not shown to be seriously injured. And let me anticipate your rebuttal: "Anyone thrown across the room into a pinball machine is going to be critically injured." Nope, wrong again: the staging and performances are, get this, visual clues not to take the injuries seriously.
I don't know you, and I don't know what it is about you that so wants Superman to be someone who kills. I certainly am at a loss as to why you are so condescending in how you go about arguing this. My guess is that you have some insecurity regarding the fact that you still enjoy comic book characters at your age, and you are desperate that everyone know that 'Superman isn't kid stuff!! Grimdark!! Take it seriously, you guys!! Eleventy!!' I suspect you are similar to Zack Snyder in that way, and that's why you like his overwrought versions of the characters. But I digress. At any rate, you have yet to actually prove that Superman (and Lois) killed the Zoners. You accept that as your premise uncritically, and bluster your way through arguing it but you can't actually prove it. Go ahead, prove there is a chasm they fell into beneath the Fortress. You can't, because it wasn't shown on screen. Anything else is just more blather from you. Period.
The only blather here is coming from you, in your insistence on mistaking your opinion for fact and in your total lack of what constitutes a reasonable argument.
Let me state this in simpler terms: my evidence is that all we see is the Zoners disappearing into the mist in Superman's Alien Fortress. We don't see a chasm in any form. The only visual evidence is that they disappear into the mist. It is your extrapolation that they are killed in a fit of revenge by Superman and Lois. It is pure supposition that is not borne out in the actual images on the screen. It is not borne out in the performances of Reeve or Kidder. It is not borne out in the musical score. It is not borne out of authorial intent vis a vis the deleted scene. You have presented no evidence at all. The closest thing you have presented to an actual point is that Clark took revenge on the bully at the end, and even that is mitigated by the fact that the bully is not shown to be seriously injured. And let me anticipate your rebuttal: "Anyone thrown across the room into a pinball machine is going to be critically injured." Nope, wrong again: the staging and performances are, get this, visual clues not to take the injuries seriously.
I don't know you, and I don't know what it is about you that so wants Superman to be someone who kills. I certainly am at a loss as to why you are so condescending in how you go about arguing this. My guess is that you have some insecurity regarding the fact that you still enjoy comic book characters at your age, and you are desperate that everyone know that 'Superman isn't kid stuff!! Grimdark!! Take it seriously, you guys!! Eleventy!!' I suspect you are similar to Zack Snyder in that way, and that's why you like his overwrought versions of the characters. But I digress. At any rate, you have yet to actually prove that Superman (and Lois) killed the Zoners. You accept that as your premise uncritically, and bluster your way through arguing it but you can't actually prove it. Go ahead, prove there is a chasm they fell into beneath the Fortress. You can't, because it wasn't shown on screen. Anything else is just more blather from you. Period.
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